Table Relationship Confusiong - Linking from one to several.

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RaiTidR

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I've read a few thigns online and looked over a few examples but I have to say I'm still vastly confused about relationships.

I'm creating a personal project manager of a sorts to keep track of my projects. (Work, School and Misc).

So I want to relate the table for classes to the form for assignments from that table.

tblClasses
- PKCLASSID (autonum)
- Class Name (txt)
- Class Link (link)

tblAssignments
- PKASSIGNMENTSID (autonum)
- Assignment Type (txt)
- Class Name (txt)
- Class Link (link)

What I was hoping to do was link the 2 fields in the classes table to the 2 fields in the assignment table. So that when I use the form to add assignments I can grab a dropdown box to select the class this particular assignment is due for and it will automatically pull from the class name field.

I got that to work... what I haven't figured out is how to make it so that when the class has been chosen, the Class Link field populates with the link that is associated with that particular class.

---

I assumed it didn't work because none of my tables are linked, when I tried to link the tables, it says no unique index found for reference field of primary table.

I double checked and I have it setup for indexed no duplicates but I still couldn't get it to work. After reviewing other topics about relationships I notice they are making Foriegn Keys from primary keys... but that doesn't really suit me. Because I want the name and link to populate.

Suggestions?
 
RaiTidR said:
After reviewing other topics about relationships I notice they are making Foriegn Keys from primary keys... but that doesn't really suit me. Because I want the name and link to populate.
Click to expand...

it should suit you because that's one of the most popular/correct(?) ways to do this. here's a post i spent 1.5hrs writing yesterday on almost this exact topic. it should help you.
 
So essentially I need to adjust my assignment table to reflect the id from the classes table.

- PKASSIGNMENTSID (autonum)
- Assignment Type (txt)
- FKCLASSID (autonum)
- Class Name (txt)
- Class Link (link)

The only question I have is... what is the purpose of Class ID? The ID number is of no value to me on the assignments list... I just want the Class Name and its associated link.

I guess I don't see how linking the ID of one table to the ID of another table will help me retrieve data from other fields in the table.
 
RaiTidR said:
So essentially I need to adjust my assignment table to reflect the id from the classes table.

- PKASSIGNMENTSID (autonum)
- Assignment Type (txt)
- FKCLASSID (autonum)
- Class Name (txt)
- Class Link (link)

The only question I have is... what is the purpose of Class ID? The ID number is of no value to me on the assignments list... I just want the Class Name and its associated link.

I guess I don't see how linking the ID of one table to the ID of another table will help me retrieve data from other fields in the table.
Click to expand...

almost, the classID foreign key needs to be NUMBER, not AUTONUMBER (you have already GENERATED the number, the purpose of a FK is to REFERENCE that existing number)
Code: 
- PKASSIGNMENTSID (autonum)
- Assignment Type (txt)
- FKCLASSID ([COLOR=Red]number[/COLOR])
- Class Name (txt)
- Class Link (link)
RaiTidR said:
The only question I have is... what is the purpose of Class ID? The ID number is of no value to me on the assignments list... I just want the Class Name and its associated link.
Click to expand...

there is a value to having the classID in the assignment table - it will tell you to which class you have given that assignment.

e.g., it will allow you to say:
1) Assignment #01 - "Principles of Thermodynamics", given to class "Physics 101".
2) Assignment #02 - "Applications of Thermodynamics", given to class "Physics 102"

and... you also just answered your own question - "i just want the Class Name and its associated link" - the classID in the assignment list is how you achieve that link.

here is a thread (start with post #18 and read all the way to the bottom of the thread) which explains how to get that working in a data entry scenario via a form (you should not enter data directly in a table).

edit: to clarify. you need somewhere to store the ID from the class in your assignment list (which you have done by including a FK for classID). in your form (that is bound to your assignment table (via a query - much more flexible)), you now want to select which class you're giving that assignment to, so you change the classesID textbox to a combobox (right click, change to) in the form. the rowsource of the combobox ought to be a select query listing all your available classes from your classes table. when you select a class from a combobox now, this has the effect of adding the classes ID to the FK field in your assignment table - linking the two.

i hope i explained that correctly! ;)

post back if you need more help.
 
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Ok, I think I understand... but I just want to clarify because I am still trying to figure out the need for certain field.

My Assignments Table looks like this:

tblAssignments
- PKASSIGNMENTSID (autonum)
- FKCLASSID (num)
- FKTEACHERID (num)
- FKASSIGNMENTTYPESID (num)
- Assignment Name (txt)
- Assignment Type (txt)
- Assignment Due (date)
- Class Name (txt)
- Class Link (link)
- Teacher Name (txt)
- Teacher Email (link)

---

I have Tables for each FK that corresponds to the main Assignments table controlling all the information.

Then I made queries for each table that I wanted corresponding information to populate into. (1 for assignment type, 2 for classes and 2 for teachers)

---

Now I have taken the CLASSID field in the Form Design and changed it to a combo box, and I've assigned it the particular query to accomodate the Class Name from this box.

That works and it seems great... now that I have done this... what is the purpose of having a field for Class Name... since the ClassID field is now showing the class name for me.

---

Before I had it setup like so...

tblAssignments
- PKASSIGNMENTSID (autonum)
- Assignment Name (txt)
- Assignment Type (txt)
- Assignment Due (date)
- Class Name (txt)
- Class Link (link)
- Teacher Name (txt)
- Teacher Email (link)

In the form I had the Class Name pull from that particular field in its table.

frmAssignments
- Class Name (txt)

Control Source = Class Type
Row Source = SELECT [tblClasses].[CLASSID], [tblClasses].[Class Name] FROM tblClasses ORDER BY [Class Name];
Row Source Type = Table / Query

It pulled the information up but the tables weren't linked... however, the idea was that when I went to create reports I could have it show reports based on Assignments that are assigned to a particular class.

I assume the same can be done with your method... but I'm still stumped as to what purpose the Class Name field would have in tblAssignments if the Class ID field is going to show the same information.

---

I hope I didn't wind up rambling and you understand what I'm asking.
 
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RaiTidR said:
tblAssignments
- PKASSIGNMENTSID (autonum)
- FKCLASSID (num)
- FKTEACHERID (num)
- FKASSIGNMENTTYPESID (num)
- Assignment Name (txt)
- Assignment Type (txt)
- Assignment Due (date)
- Class Name (txt)
- Class Link (link)
- Teacher Name (txt)
- Teacher Email (link)

---
what is the purpose of having a field for Class Name... since the ClassID field is now showing the class name for me.

---
Click to expand...

you coined it :) you don't need the Class Name field in the table at all - you're right, the CLassID field takes care of all class data you may want :) (edit: this is achieved by basing your forms on QUERIES, not TABLES :) )

in a similar way, you also won't need these fields in that table (thanks to having the FK's in there: Teacher Name, Teacher Email, Assignment Type, and (not sure : Class link? - is this a url link to somehere? it should possibly be in the class table and nowhere else).

makes things a lot tidier, doesn't it :)

RaiTidR said:
I assume the same can be done with your method... but I'm still stumped as to what purpose the Class Name field would have in tblAssignments if the Class ID field is going to show the same information.
Click to expand...

yes. there's a place in access where you can view your relationships. in there, you can create various types of relationships to automate some of the links for your queries... (these relationship lines are automatically created via a different method of linking IDs between tables - it's also described in the link i gave you about adding comboboxes to forms... i think)

e.g., in the relationship window, click and drag PKCLASSID from your class table directly ontop of your FKCLASSID from your assignment table (and others if you have FKCLASSID in them too). you can then double-click on the line that access creates and force referential integrity (e.g., doesn't allow you to give an assignment to a class that doesn't exist).

now when you go to make a query, and you add to you query deisgn the tables for assignments, assignment types and for classes, you'll see access automatically adds the relationship line for you. you can then pick and chose which fileds you want displayed (e.g., Assignment Name, Class Name, Assignment Type) - and access knows which ones go together because it has the PK/FK to draw on. you see, the "key" tells access which WHOLE RECORD relates to that ID, so the fields for Class Name, Class Link etc are all part of that ID

funky, innit!? :D

edit: i just thought of something. this depends on a few things, but, wouldn't you have one teacher assigned to each class? or do the teachers and classes move about?

see, if you had a teacher assigned to a CLASS, then you wouldn't have to assign a teach to an ASSIGNMENT because the CLASS/ASSIGNMENT link would automatically tell you which TEACHER is involved with that class (via a FK teach in the class table)

RaiTidR said:
I hope I didn't wind up rambling and you understand what I'm asking.
Click to expand...

i totally understand. i just hope i'm explaining it correctly - with the correct methods. i don't want to be teaching you something that's incorrect! demerits for me! :eek:

and you don't come off as rambling ;)
 
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(in-house gurus should DEFINITELY cut in if i'm incorrect anywhere)
 
wiklendt said:
in a similar way, you also won't need these fields in that table (thanks to having the FK's in there: Teacher Name, Teacher Email, Assignment Type, and (not sure : Class link? - is this a url link to somehere? it should possibly be in the class table and nowhere else).
Click to expand...

The Class Link is actually part of a convenience. Lets pretend I don't ever want to pull up the Class Table... I'll only pull up the Class Form if I have to Add or Delete data (in which case I have 2 forms... 1 specifically for adding classes and 1 fore editing / deleting classes).

The concept is for safe-keeping... in my Add form it loads as data entry, and only additions are allowed. That way I can edit or mix up information on accident. Then if it gets to where I need to delete a class or edit it, i'll load up that form instead.

These forms are Popup Modals that are called via the Assignment form.

Next to the ClassID Combo Box are 2 Buttons [Add] and [Update]. The add button pops open the frmClasses-Add which allows me to add classes. The Update button merely closes and reopens the assignment form because I've noticed (via my methods) when you add a class it doesn't show up in the combo box unless the form is reloaded.

---

Anyway I got off track... so essentially all the information in the Classes Table is for orgnization and you'll never pull it up unless you are actually adding or editing classes.

So the Field Class Link is supposed to update with the link assigned in tblClasses after you select the class from the combo box.

However, I haven't even looked at trying to make this work because I wanted to make sure my tables weren't redundant before I go about making 100 tables on my larger scale project. Now with this information I realize they were.

wiklendt said:
edit: i just thought of something. this depends on a few things, but, wouldn't you have one teacher assigned to each class? or do the teachers and classes move about?
Click to expand...

Normally you WOULD only have 1 teacher per class... but this project is a precursor to a larger project. And I wanted to make the options open so I'd know how on my larger scale. Also, this would allow subsitute teachers to be added in the event a Substitute was onduty for a specific assignment submission.

---

Addendum - Lets say tblClasses had 5 fields of its own... and I needed to call data from several fields within the table into the Assignments form... the FK method wouldn't really work anymore. So I guess I'm still stumped as to what I would do in a much larger scale database.
 
RaiTidR said:
Next to the ClassID Combo Box are 2 Buttons [Add] and [Update]. The add button pops open the frmClasses-Add which allows me to add classes. The Update button merely closes and reopens the assignment form because I've noticed (via my methods) when you add a class it doesn't show up in the combo box unless the form is reloaded.
Click to expand...

There is an easier way. You mentioned your forms open as modal. this is good, because now you can add and auto-update code to that button thus:

Code: 
'open the form for adding classes
DoCmd.OpenForm frmYourClassAddForm
'since the form is modal, all code in THIS form is suspended until the classes form closes

'after the form is closed, requery my combo
Me.cmbClassesCombo.Requery

and it should update the combo for you without having to do it manually with an extra "update" button ;)

RaiTidR said:
Addendum - Lets say tblClasses had 5 fields of its own... and I needed to call data from several fields within the table into the Assignments form... the FK method wouldn't really work anymore. So I guess I'm still stumped as to what I would do in a much larger scale database.
Click to expand...

ah, see - the way i would do it is to have a frmClassManagement (maybe even this could be your edit/delete form), where i would have a SUBform for the assignments. then, you can view one class, and all the assignments associated with it :) instead of viewing one assignment at a time...
 
First let me say... Thank You wiklendt for taking the time to bother with me. It is hard to express via a forum post how much I greatly appreciate it.

I usually run into the problem where my ideas are greater than my capacity of understanding for the application. I am going to try out a few things... I'm not entirely sure how all this is going to work... but suffice to say I'm going to have to pretty much redesign things a little.

However, I'd rather redo it and have it done right... then be using some inferior methods. Maybe late late this evening after I work up a much better and stronger example I'll post my Access file so you can see what I have done... and what I was actually trying to do.

And should you have the time you could possibly see what I have done wrong. Though from what I've read online and through the forums... for the most part my DB tables are setup pretty organized-like.

Thanks Again
 
RaiTidR said:
First let me say... Thank You wiklendt for taking the time to bother with me. It is hard to express via a forum post how much I greatly appreciate it.

I usually run into the problem where my ideas are greater than my capacity of understanding for the application. I am going to try out a few things... I'm not entirely sure how all this is going to work... but suffice to say I'm going to have to pretty much redesign things a little.

However, I'd rather redo it and have it done right... then be using some inferior methods. Maybe late late this evening after I work up a much better and stronger example I'll post my Access file so you can see what I have done... and what I was actually trying to do.

And should you have the time you could possibly see what I have done wrong. Though from what I've read online and through the forums... for the most part my DB tables are setup pretty organized-like.

Thanks Again
Click to expand...


from reading this thread i get the impression that you're both intelligent and logical - not a common combination (i speak for myself mainly LOL)
 
I think maybe my post got eaten... or maybe posts submitted with an attachment require moderation... I wasn't paying so close attention. So I will try again. (I apologize if this winds up being a duplicate thread)

---

While trying to follow some of the advice here I messed something up I think. Since I used the query to have the FieldIDs of AssignmentType, Class and Teacher the Combo boxes pulled the information and everything appeared right.

However, it tells me that the value is invalid for this field... I'm trying to enter text into a number field. Mayhaps I did something wrong, I am not sure.

---

I have attached a zip file of my MS Access 2007 DB which is named Assignments.accdb (hopefully you can open this as the format is not supported by the upload feature)

There are a few things I would like to point out however, about why my DB is structured as it is.

I wanted to take the experience from this DB to help me create a much larger scale project that I will be passing on to some friends for personal use. As such, I want it very "User Friendly". I basically want to completely eliminate the need for the Navigation bar and everything be managed through the Switchboard and its forms.

This is why I have tried to make everything very easy to use and also why I have separate forms for Adding and Editing / Deleting. If you aren't paying attention its easy to overwrite data (at least for me, I have found no way to prevent edits from saving unless you choose to save... it just automatically records changes in real-time)

---

If you have the opportunity to look over this DB I'd like 3 things specifically pointed out.

1 - To accomplish what I am trying to do, I could be going about it in an entirely wrong way. If you have suggestions for improvement, I'd love to hear them.

2 - The Combo Boxes in the "Add Assignments" form do not work, as soon as you select information from the drop down, it says the value is invalid... I assue I've done something wrong from the above information.

3 - The "Class Link" and "Teacher Email" fields should populate with their respective data when someone chooses a particular entry for Class Name and Teacher Name. However, I don't know how to get this to work. I'd love to find out how.

---

Lastly, I don't want anyone to open up the DB and go to work tweaking... that won't help me in the least. I'd be more than glad to have you take the time if possible, and tell me what I can do to accomplish my goals and / or how to improve my overall use of MS Access DB Creation and Management.

Thanks
 

Attachments

Hey RaiTidR,

just downloaded your file - i'll have a look at it over then next day or so. i'd just like to make some general comments in response to your post.

- i don't think attachment post go through a moderation stage before being accepted. however, i have lost many a time-consuming posts due to my wavering internet connection. through this, i have learnt to copy my post to the clipboard before pressing "submit" ;)

- in terms of the invalid value for the field: usually a data type issue comes with an "error 13: data type mismatch", so it might be a different issue. i'll look into it for you.

- sounds like what you are doing with your forms are what you should be :) i've heard many advanced users use separate forms for adding, editing, deleting etc...

and i personally also dislike navigation bars and record selectors etc - but i also know that sometimes they're a necessity. having said that, there are ways to customise this feature to make it more 'pretty' or to have advanced features like disabling the 'back' navigation button when there are no previous records. however, as anything, this takes time and effort, and often WAY too much code to achieve this (IMHO, LOL)

so gimme a bit of time and i'll have a look at how to iron out your buttons :)
 
Thanks again for taking the time to look into it for me wiklendt, if you have the ability and the time great... if not I understand.

I don't know what occurred to my first post, I bet I selected to preview post and because I always have so much going on, I just closed the browser assuming it was posted.

This is a stopping point for me because the only way to prevent from getting the specific error is to go back to the table structure I had before, which I know now is wrong. ANd I can't seem to tinker with it enough to get the error to go away.

I'll worry about all the more advanced stuff after I tackle the basics. I do understand however the importance of properly designing your tables to integrate with one another so as to avoid adding the same information in more than 1 table. Its just, optimizing it so that it is efficient... I've got to put more work into that.

Thanks again
 
RaiTidR said:
This is a stopping point for me because the only way to prevent from getting the specific error is to go back to the table structure I had before, which I know now is wrong. ANd I can't seem to tinker with it enough to get the error to go away.
Click to expand...

something i always do, and most people will tell you to do also, is to keep frequent backups of your developing database. for example, i have more than 400 individual backups of one particular database i started last year - i backup before doing any changes - usually whether it's major or minor. if i'm making lots of changes in one day, i'll backup a few times at various stages, just so that i know i've got something to go back to if i really totally stuff up

and also this has the benefit of reverting when i 'change my mind' about features/queries/reports i want, or, if i mistake a query as redundant, delete it, and then find out later it was actually quite essential, i can actually go back to a previous copy of my database, and copy/paste it back into my most recent version.
 
RaiTidR said:
While trying to follow some of the advice here I messed something up I think. Since I used the query to have the FieldIDs of AssignmentType, Class and Teacher the Combo boxes pulled the information and everything appeared right.

However, it tells me that the value is invalid for this field... I'm trying to enter text into a number field. Mayhaps I did something wrong, I am not sure.
Click to expand...

you're not quite as wrong as you thought you were... i found the problem here:

The FK comboboxes ONLY had the text field, holding the name, of the record. But the FK requires storage of the PK autonumber. to fix this in your form, i opened the query design of the combo box, added the primary ID for that record, and changed the 'bound column' in the combo properties to "2" (becuase it is the second column/field (the ID one of the child table) which is the one you need to save to that field in the 'parent' assignment table.)

this means, that access will display the first column, so you get a user-friendly and meaningful name, but STORES the NUMBER of the record... the foreign key. have a look at my changes (in the Add Assignment form)

i've also adjusted the "column count" and "column widths" properties for the three combos on that form. because i added the ID field for each, the column count is now "2", and becaase you only want to see the first column (with the text), and not the non-user-friendly ID, you can make the second ID column 'hidden' by adjusting each column width (in order that they appear); so "7cm;0cm" is how you would tell access to display the first, and not the second field. you can adjust these for any number of columns.... 7cm;0cm;0cm;3cm;3cm;0cm;.... to however many you have :)

i've got to get back to work, so i'll look at the other issues later. hopefully, this will get you progressing with a bit more confidence that you ARE actually on the right direction.

I have attached a zip file of my MS Access 2007 DB which is named Assignments.accdb (hopefully you can open this as the format is not supported by the upload feature)
Click to expand...

i have ac2007, so that file format is fine for me.

just a mental note for you, though, that lots of people on this forum don't have 2007, and often will ask for at least a 2000 version - to save time, i recommend that when you post a DB, to include in the zip a 2007 version, and a 2000 version (you can do this by going to the orb, and "save as..." then select '2000-2003', i think it's called).


2 - The Combo Boxes in the "Add Assignments" form do not work, as soon as you select information from the drop down, it says the value is invalid... I assue I've done something wrong from the above information.
Click to expand...

so, this point we've addressed.

3 - The "Class Link" and "Teacher Email" fields should populate with their respective data when someone chooses a particular entry for Class Name and Teacher Name. However, I don't know how to get this to work. I'd love to find out how.
Click to expand...

the easiest, but probably not the most 'proper' way is to have extra columns or fields in you combo queries, and then just have the other textboxes refer to those other columns by entering this into the "control source" property of that textbox, let's say for example the class link:

Code: 
=[CLASSID].[Column](2)

(doing this changes the textbox to unbound status).

now, having said that, i would urge you to follow a certain nomenclature of control naming also. just like forms tables and queries have certain prefixes, so should textboxes (txt), comboboxes (cbo or cmb)...etc. then when you write the above code, there is no confusion for access whether you mean the field CLASSID in the assignment table, or the CONTROL source of the combobox.

Code: 
=[cmbClassID].[Column](2)

now just a heads up: column counts etc. start at "1". CODE reference to columns are zero based, so they start counting at "0". so, when you set "column count" and "bound column", if you have three column, the first would be "1", the second "2", the third "3'. BUT when you refer to columns in code, the first is "0", the second "1" and so on.

so when you add more columns to your combos (you can have as many as you like as far as i can tell), just be aware that the "third" column in the query is referenced as .Column(2)

sorry, i wrote this in a bit of a rush - just let me know if i've been unclear anywhere...
 
ok, i've been doing some thinking about your database, and that you want it user friendly. i'm going to describe how i would do it - i'm not saying this is the best way, nor am i recommending any particular part, i'm just going to explain how *i* would do it, if i were you:

i would make, say 4 buttons on your switchboard:

"manage teachers"
"manage students"
"manage classes"
"manage assignments"

(or similar - perhaps you could even have a box outline around 'teachers' students etc with "manage" at the top of the box... reducing repetitive use of the word "manage")
if you really want to keep your current setup, i would suggest 'grouping' the buttons to make it a little easier for the user to decide where they want to go: like, encase in a box the two/three buttons for assignments e.g.,

Assignments: ADD | EDIT | DELETE

​
when each button is pressed, it takes the user to a new form. let's look at the "classes" form as an example of what might be there...
ok, so in the form header we have a title "Classes". something i was think about is that each year, your students, and possibly your assignments and teachers too, may change. so it won't be enough to just have "classes", but they must be linked to a "year" (like, 2009), for example. this may become more complex in the northern hemisphere, where the school years are not calendar years (?)... anyway, you could achieve this sort of setup with a junciton table, i suppose.

in the detail area we'd have, on the left, a sort of control menu: a listbox with all the existing classes in it; above the listbox, a real-time text filter up the top (to enable finding a particular class easier) and a "new class" button to add a new class; below the listbox a "delete this class" button with red text and programmed to popup a message box saying "are you absolutely sure you want to delete class BLAH"

the detail setup is my favourite way to setup my bound form, and works really well. in particular, the delete button being out of the way in the bottom left helps prevent accidental pressing of it - and besides there's a confirmation msg box anyhow.

now, for the classes form we have our navigation (the listbox, search, and add/delete buttons) but we also need data: i would insert a few tabs "teachers", "students" and "assigments" - and possibly also "timetables" or "rooms" or something like that, depending on how complex it needs to be.

in these tabs, i'd have subforms where the records are drawn, ultimately, from junction tables and the like.
so the "teachers" subform in the "Classes" main form would have records of the teachers teaching that one class. so my vision is that you'd have a datasheet view, and there'd be the fields "teacher" (name), "start date" (of teaching that class), "end date" (of teaching that class - could be blank for permanent teachers), "status" (where you'd have "permanent" or "substitute" or whatever) - so you can track who's teaching when etc.

the "students" subform in the "classes" main form will have a list of the students registered for that class for that year. it will just consist of their name, but possibly you could expand this to collect attendance data.
​
...and so on for whichever subforms you have in the classes main form. in each instance, "classID" would be a foreign key in those subforms, (and also possibly YearID) - but each subform has something to do with organisation of that class.
​
so if we look at what i would do for the "Manage Teachers" form - this is where i'd have all the teacher details, like name, home address, qualifications, hire date etc... (with a navigation setup similar to class form that i described). you could also have another tab in the teachers form to allocate/view which classes they're set to teach (this would be based on the same table/query (but different subform) as the class form)... so basically, anything to do with a teach would be in this form.

now, say, the student management form: same navigation (listbox, search, add/delete) and this time tabs for student info like teachers - home address, parents details (perhaps?), contact details etc, then a subform on another tab with which classes they're enrolled in, then on another maybe their attendance details, their assignments and results etc... etc...

most of these will be based on the same data, but presented in different ways depending on the main form you're looking at.
 
Hello Again,

I apologize for the late reply Wiklendt as I've been so busy with school, work and family I had to put this on hold. However, with this weekend coming up i'll be able to sink in and try to figure out some of what you have suggested here.

I have found that the best thing to do is put a diagram out on paper of what I hope to accomplish. Much like a rough-draft I'll go through tweaking it, adding things I've forgotten and removing things that are redundant.

I have a lot to digest on this, optimizing it to make it a better system overall.

Thanks so much for taking the time to look. In regards to the pre-Access 2007, I did save as that type and when I opened it up... it was like 1/2 of my stuff was missing so I just went forward with the 2007 version. I will have to look again to see.

You have been a tremendous help... and I'll continue to try and perfect this. I don't doubt that I'll have future problems.
 
it's my pleasure :) and paper certainly still has its place in the design process. access 2007 does have a free "runtime" that you can download so that if your user(s) do not have access (or don't have 2007), they will still be able to run your application. i've never used a runtime before, so i'm not sure what it allows users to do (certainlyt not design but nto sure what else), but it's worth looking into, i think.

you can download the access 2007 runtime and data conectivity sp2 (released 24/apr/2009) here. this link also has more info if you scroll down.

here is an add-on you can use with the runtime which allows you to save to pdf, which may be handy for reports and such.

no worries about the span between our replies - i know everyone gets busy, myself included. :)
 
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