Are you an atheist?

[Old Man Devin]

Would not a worm-hole accomplish the same thing?

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

Yes it would! But I don't think we know how to create wormholes, whereas creating warped space is known to be possible in theory, and design for machines to do it already exist, they are just impossible to build as they need materials that do not occur naturally ("exotic elements" I think they are called, substances that can exist in principle but don't seem to actually exist as far as we can tell!).

 

[Old Man Devin]

You want to link some evidence for this? We know that gravity bends the universe. Einstein said it would in General Relativity. Warp speed is from Star Trek.

There is an actual NASA project researching a genuine warping engine. I have heard reports of it a few times in the last few years, and I believe the most recent development was a design that didn't require a massive amount of energy, making it actually possible to run.

Link related

The big problem remains though: the whole device is made of "exotic" materials that don't appear exist!

 

[Galaxiom]

The old guy with the tangle of hair really was something now, wasn't he?

While the iconic depiction of Einstein is "the old guy with the tangle of hair", like most physicists, he did his best work in his twenties. Special Relativity was released when he was 25 while General Relativity was published when he was 35 years old. In his later career he didn't contribute much at all despite his effort.

Oddly he never received a Nobel Prize for Relativity. His Nobel Prize was awarded for work in the photoelectric effect. This must surely be the greatest oversight in the history of the prize. No other part of science has ever been so fundamentally turned on its head by a single person as what Albert did to mechanics.

Somewhere, in an alternate universe, Galileo, Newton, and Einstein are all in a room together, having a conversation.

Actually they are members of this forum in another universe and the conversation would be quite familiar.

I doubt that Galileo would have a lot of time for the Church and it seems likely that Newton was autistic. In any case Isaac wrote far more about god than he wrote about light or gravity.

Albert would be more likely to have gravitated to Maxwell. It has always bewildered me that Maxwell never became a household name (ignoring Maxwell Smart of course). What he did with Electromagnetism paved the way for Einstein. Maxwell was a hero to Einstein. He said so.

Indeed Einstein had photographs of Newton and Maxwell prominently displayed in his office.

Is that time travel in either direction - i.e. the past or the future? Or just the past. It's hard for me to wrap my mind around traveling to the future - because it hasn't happend yet. Traveling to the past is a little easier to conceive

Ironically it is the other way around. Aside from the fact that we are constantly travelling forward in time, it is actually much more logical to travel even faster forwards than backwards at all.

All one needs to do to travel forwards in time is to slow the traveller's local time. This is easy. Just move through space and the speed through time is automatically reduced. Of course one need to move very fast to have any appreciable effect. Wait for the rest of the Universe to pass by and there you are in the future.

I can't grasp how one could move backwards in time. It is done and gone.

Would you believe that serious scientists are probing the possibility that the future can influence the past? Possibilities for this are not entirely ruled out by Quantum Mechanics. !!!!!!!! Seriously !!!!!!!!

you overtake the newer light, and reach the older light - so to speak - and travel back in time.

That isn't really the issue. With the vast distance of Space the whole question of what simultaneous means becomes shadowed.

What about a low energy propulsion system but one that was so efficient and robust that it could keep accelerating - let's say at .5G, continuously for a year or a decade? No need to burst out of the gate like a thoroughbread is there?

Yes this is plausible. With enough speed the traveller experiences a much slower time allowing several light years to be covered a lifetime. However the acceleration required to reach the speed required for intergalactic travel in a lifetime would kill a human.

And remember, even if the traveller could take the acceleration, there is no going back to tell about it because billions of years would have passed on Earth.

The Milky Way is unimaginably large. The Universe much more so and yet still we try to look beyond. Science confirms there is no way of travelling any way near such distances for anything possessing a non-zero rest mass.

Earth is it for eternity. We should be taking better care of it.

 

[Galaxiom]

There is an actual NASA project researching a genuine warping engine. I have heard reports of it a few times in the last few years, and I believe the most recent development was a design that didn't require a massive amount of energy, making it actually possible to run.

Link related

The big problem remains though: the whole device is made of "exotic" materials that don't appear exist!

Experience with Quantum has shown that poking at the fringes can have big payoffs.This guy is paid to do that research. Good luck to him but I bet he has nothing yet that would breach what we already know. If he did it would be huge news.

As far as we know, warping space requires vast energy.

 

[Brianwarnock]

OT God is the God as described in the Old Testament. NT God is the much more kindly one as described in the New Testament

As I understand it OT is pre Jesus and NT is post, if there is a contradiction one dismisses the OT. Version.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

If one is away from this thread for a couple of days it takes a effort to catch up and there are posts that one wants to reply to that are so far past that it would break the flow.

I am too ignorant to enter the current scientific discussion so will have to just be an observer for a while.

Brian

 

[Libre]

While the iconic depiction of Einstein is "the old guy with the tangle of hair", like most physicists, he did his best work in his twenties. Special Relativity was released when he was 25 while General Relativity was published when he was 35 years old. In his later career he didn't contribute much at all despite his effort.

Oddly he never received a Nobel Prize for Relativity. His Nobel Prize was awarded for work in the photoelectric effect. This must surely be the greatest oversight in the history of the prize. No other part of science has ever been so fundamentally turned on its head by a single person as what Albert did to mechanics.

Yes, quite true, with the possible exception of Tesla, who was definitely shortchanged, and many of his contributions were credited to others who reaped the financial rewards (eg: radio contolled vehicles, x-rays, the wireless radio). The history books are being rewritten (and patents owned by others for Tesla's work have been cancelled) as Tesla's contributions are becomming more well known. In addition to his uncredited work, there are also the work he did that WAS known (AC power, the fluorescent light, the 3 phase induction motor). He HAD to be one of the greatest brains ever - and a PRACTICAL one at that - he built stuff and his stuff WORKED. THe industrial rev would have taken quite a different turn had not Tesla been Tesla. He powered the first ever electrically powered world's fair. He (and George Westinghouse, his financial backer) managed to beat out the fantastically influential T.A. Edison an J.P. Morgan (DC Power junkies) to get the Niagara power contract - the first ever large scale electrical generating plant (AC of course).

Ironically it is the other way around. Aside from the fact that we are constantly travelling forward in time, it is actually much more logical to travel even faster forwards than backwards at all.

All one needs to do to travel forwards in time is to slow the traveller's local time. This is easy. Just move through space and the speed through time is automatically reduced. Of course one need to move very fast to have any appreciable effect. Wait for the rest of the Universe to pass by and there you are in the future.

I can't grasp how one could move backwards in time. It is done and gone.

I don't dispute - but it is easy for me to imagine Einsteins "thought experiment" of a clock tower in a town square, from which you are moving away at the speed of light. The clock hands do not move, since you are abreast with the light moving away from the same clock. If you exceeded light speed, the clock hands would move backward. In the same way, the light we see from the stars is thousands of years old, and the stars we are seeing may not exist today. I may not be capturing all this in the way a physicist might - but in these terms it is simple enough for me to grasp.

 

[Bladerunner]

Why am I an atheist? A fair question which I will attempt to answer.

I would like to believe in the Christian God. It would give me great comfort if I could believe it were true. It would make a fantastic comfort blanket. I genuinely envy those that have a faith. Unfortunately I do not see any evidence to support that hypothesis. The Bible has many internal contradictions - the main one being the vast difference between the OT God and the NT God but there are many others.

I do agree with many of the teachings of Christianity in how we should live and deal with one another. The stumbling block for me is the unexplained existence of a supernatural figure that is somehow responsible for everything

Have a nice day

Rabbie: Yes, The God that was depicted in the OT was much harsher than in the NT. I believe within a time period of 10,000 years BC to about 1800 BC was when Adam/Eve and Abraham, Noah, etc lived. The first fifteen books of the bible happen prior to the birth of Moses. The stories from this era about creation, Adam and Eve, The Flood, Abraham, Noah, etc. were handed down for centuries and perhaps a few thousand years. The first five books of the bible are attributed to Moses and they were not written until about 1400BC. Did God tell him directly what happened in the past as he did in so many other authors and books of the bible? I don't know and neither does anyone else.

Going back in time, you can imagine how things were with early man, waring factions, dinosaurs and just the environment of a earth that was just beginning.
By careful research, I have come to the conclusion that there were many attempts at creating man.(what a firestorm this will create on this thread but your science bears this out.) By scientific accounts and they were many tries even before Crow-Magnum man that lived until about 25,000 years BC. Neanderthal Man (early homo-sapiens) lived until about 10,000 years BC. which accounts for the ancient cities that have been found around the world. However, like other premodern man, they just disappeared and modern man (with larger brain, larger frame, etc) just simply one day existed. Even until and after the arrival of Yeshua of Nazareth (Jesus Christ) approx. 4-5 BC (again your science) times were very hard.

I have researched the bible and history enough to come to 'at least giving the following idea some light'. 'God was on the verge of destroying man again and then he came up with the idea of atonement through Jesus Christ'. This explains the difference in treatment of man and explains that the sightings of God except through Jesus Christ have all but disappeared in the new testament.


I have always heard that the problem with the bible was the translation after re-translation of its scriptures. Yes, there are several versions out there (Islam for one) but the current KJV of the bible is based entirely upon the original writings of Moses. From all the info I can find, the translations from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek scrolls are very accurate to each other with only slight meanings of specific words being changed.


If what you have is a problem of where God came from and how he existed prior to our universe, I cannot help you. That is a leap of Faith you must make yourself (your Choice). As for man's puny science, it has not ruled God out nor have they ruled Him in. I speak of our science as (puny) in that I am comparing it to the science God had to have to create all things

Have a nice Day :>)


Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

Yes it would! But I don't think we know how to create wormholes, whereas creating warped space is known to be possible in theory, and design for machines to do it already exist, they are just impossible to build as they need materials that do not occur naturally ("exotic elements" I think they are called, substances that can exist in principle but don't seem to actually exist as far as we can tell!).

Are not 'Black Holes' worm holes? I know what a black hole does and is but it could very well (if passage through it was possible)cross the folds of the universe.

Have a nice Day:>)

Bladerunner

 

[Vassago]

Rabbie: Yes, The God that was depicted in the OT was much harsher than in the NT. I believe within a time period of 10,000 years BC to about 1800 BC was when Adam/Eve and Abraham, Noah, etc lived. The first fifteen books of the bible happen prior to the birth of Moses. The stories from this era about creation, Adam and Eve, The Flood, Abraham, Noah, etc. were handed down for centuries and perhaps a few thousand years. The first five books of the bible are attributed to Moses and they were not written until about 1400BC. Did God tell him directly what happened in the past as he did in so many other authors and books of the bible? I don't know and neither does anyone else.

Going back in time, you can imagine how things were with early man, waring factions, dinosaurs and just the environment of a earth that was just beginning.
By careful research, I have come to the conclusion that there were many attempts at creating man.(what a firestorm this will create on this thread but your science bears this out.) By scientific accounts and they were many tries even before Crow-Magnum man that lived until about 25,000 years BC. Neanderthal Man (early homo-sapiens) lived until about 10,000 years BC. which accounts for the ancient cities that have been found around the world. However, like other premodern man, they just disappeared and modern man (with larger brain, larger frame, etc) just simply one day existed. Even until and after the arrival of Yeshua of Nazareth (Jesus Christ) approx. 4-5 BC (again your science) times were very hard.

I have researched the bible and history enough to come to 'at least giving the following idea some light'. 'God was on the verge of destroying man again and then he came up with the idea of atonement through Jesus Christ'. This explains the difference in treatment of man and explains that the sightings of God except through Jesus Christ have all but disappeared in the new testament.


I have always heard that the problem with the bible was the translation after re-translation of its scriptures. Yes, there are several versions out there (Islam for one) but the current KJV of the bible is based entirely upon the original writings of Moses. From all the info I can find, the translations from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek scrolls are very accurate to each other with only slight meanings of specific words being changed.


If what you have is a problem of where God came from and how he existed prior to our universe, I cannot help you. That is a leap of Faith you must make yourself (your Choice). As for man's puny science, it has not ruled God out nor have they ruled Him in. I speak of our science as (puny) in that I am comparing it to the science God had to have to create all things

Have a nice Day :>)


Bladerunner

How about the simple fact that the Bible was still written by MAN. The Bible itself says MAN is inperfect. What if we got stuff wrong? Anything is possible, isn't it? With so many people dipping their hands in writing the Bible, even if "god" told them to write it, what if they misunderstood something?

 

[Libre]

Going back in time, you can imagine how things were with early man, waring factions, dinosaurs and just the environment of a earth that was just beginning.

You're not seriously suggesting humans and the dinos coexisted at the same time, are you Bladerunner?
That the earth was new when people appeared?
Please explain.

 

[David R]

I have always heard that the problem with the bible was the translation after re-translation of its scriptures. Yes, there are several versions out there (Islam for one) but the current KJV of the bible is based entirely upon the original writings of Moses. From all the info I can find, the translations from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek scrolls are very accurate to each other with only slight meanings of specific words being changed.

The problem with some Christians is they just MAKE THINGS UP rather than admit they are wrong. The KJV did nothing of the sort, it's a Christian-focused retranslation of earlier Jewish translations and Latin manuscripts, commissioned by a political leader to support HIS church in particular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version#Translation

 

[Rabbie]

Rabbie: Yes, The God that was depicted in the OT was much harsher than in the NT. I believe within a time period of 10,000 years BC to about 1800 BC was when Adam/Eve and Abraham, Noah, etc lived. The first fifteen books of the bible happen prior to the birth of Moses. The stories from this era about creation, Adam and Eve, The Flood, Abraham, Noah, etc. were handed down for centuries and perhaps a few thousand years. The first five books of the bible are attributed to Moses and they were not written until about 1400BC. Did God tell him directly what happened in the past as he did in so many other authors and books of the bible? I don't know and neither does anyone else.

Going back in time, you can imagine how things were with early man, waring factions, dinosaurs and just the environment of a earth that was just beginning.
By careful research, I have come to the conclusion that there were many attempts at creating man.(what a firestorm this will create on this thread but your science bears this out.) By scientific accounts and they were many tries even before Crow-Magnum man that lived until about 25,000 years BC. Neanderthal Man (early homo-sapiens) lived until about 10,000 years BC. which accounts for the ancient cities that have been found around the world. However, like other premodern man, they just disappeared and modern man (with larger brain, larger frame, etc) just simply one day existed. Even until and after the arrival of Yeshua of Nazareth (Jesus Christ) approx. 4-5 BC (again your science) times were very hard.

I have researched the bible and history enough to come to 'at least giving the following idea some light'. 'God was on the verge of destroying man again and then he came up with the idea of atonement through Jesus Christ'. This explains the difference in treatment of man and explains that the sightings of God except through Jesus Christ have all but disappeared in the new testament.


I have always heard that the problem with the bible was the translation after re-translation of its scriptures. Yes, there are several versions out there (Islam for one) but the current KJV of the bible is based entirely upon the original writings of Moses. From all the info I can find, the translations from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek scrolls are very accurate to each other with only slight meanings of specific words being changed.


If what you have is a problem of where God came from and how he existed prior to our universe, I cannot help you. That is a leap of Faith you must make yourself (your Choice). As for man's puny science, it has not ruled God out nor have they ruled Him in. I speak of our science as (puny) in that I am comparing it to the science God had to have to create all things

Have a nice Day :>)


Bladerunner

Answers like this are not going to change my view on whether there is a god or not.

There is just so much evidence that our planet (and Homo sapiens) are so much older than your suggestions.

BTW its Cro-magnon not Crow-magnum. They were early Homo sapiens not Neanderthal man who was a separate species. You should check what you write because the inaccuracies tend to detract from the credibility of your arguments.

Have a good day

 

[spikepl]

Crow-magnum .... LOL .. sounds like an NRA-version of world's history

This omnipotent and omniscient guy called God can settle all the disputes by writing a comment here. Or appearing on a talkshow. Or setting up a page on FB ... and a 1-800 number. Hello ????

 

[Mihail]

Have you seen this movie ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_Earth
It is EXCELENT in the context of this debate.

 

[Bladerunner]

You're not seriously suggesting humans and the dinos coexisted at the same time, are you Bladerunner?
That the earth was new when people appeared?
Please explain.

not hardly----just setting the atmosphere! TImes when the early man was around was hard.

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Libre]

not hardly----just setting the atmosphere! TImes when the early man was around was hard.

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

Okay - (whew) - you had me a little worried there, Blade.

 

[Bladerunner]

Answers like this are not going to change my view on whether there is a god or not.

There is just so much evidence that our planet (and Homo sapiens) are so much older than your suggestions.
http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_4.htm
BTW its Cro-magnon not Crow-magnum. They were early Homo sapiens not Neanderthal man who was a separate species. You should check what you write because the inaccuracies tend to detract from the credibility of your arguments.

Have a good day

How old do you think the planet is???? then I think the same way: The difference is when did modern man (homo sapiens sapiens) appeared.

CROW--typing error......

http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_4.htm
http://www.div1grade7.com/studentp/Dennis/ehtime.gif
http://evolutionarytraits.com/human-evolution-homo-sapien-idaltu/

Neanderthals have been lifted from a sub species to a species of Homo Sapiens.
Early (pro-modern) man (homo sapiens idaltu) walked together with Neanderthals until about 25,000 or so years. Early (pro-modern) man separate from Neanderthals started about 200,000 years ago. There have been graves that contain both Cro-Magnom and Neanderthal. Early (pro-modern man) was separate species from Modern man. Modern Man (Homo Sapiens Sapiens) is connected with Mesolithic period (timeline 12-10,000 yrs ago.)

These are records from evolutionist that put these timelines out there not me.

Just think we went from the end of the stone age to the copper age with a new species that just appeared in a matter of few years. Yet it took how long to get us started from pre-mordial ooze.

*By disappeared I mean there are no fossils that have been found. They may be there just not found but like the dark matter, We do not know!

I say it is likely there are no fossils to be found and you say yes there is. So we are back to square one and (the choice).


Have a nice day:>)

Bladerunner:

 

[Galaxiom]

Going back in time, you can imagine how things were with early man, waring factions, dinosaurs and just the environment of a earth that was just beginning.

Dinosaurs and humams never lived together. Sixty five million years separate us from them.

By careful research, I have come to the conclusion that there were many attempts at creating man.

You might have researched carefully but your results are not accurate. Did you carefully avoid anything that contradicted what you set out to prove?

If what you have is a problem of where God came from and how he existed prior to our universe, I cannot help you. That is a leap of Faith you must make yourself (your Choice).

Why make the leap if there is zero evidence for it? You spoke before about crossing a bridge that cannot be seen as though we were crazy yet you cross the gulf of faith for no reason more than you would like it to be true.

As for man's puny science, it has not ruled God out nor have they ruled Him in. I speak of our science as (puny) in that I am comparing it to the science God had to have to create all things

I am getting tired of your put downs about science. Science explains reality without having to resort to supernatural concoctions. A god is not needed to get where we are.

The God hypotheses explains nothing.

 

[Bladerunner]

Okay - (whew) - you had me a little worried there, Blade.

well, it does actually read like man was there with the dinos. should have written it better but was concentrated on the other parts.

Thanks

Have a nice day :>

Bladerunner