Software so smart it's stupid (1 Viewer)

vba_php · Dec 14, 2019

YES. this is exactly why machines will never take over. see image....

isladogs · Dec 14, 2019

If you take away four apples from the bowl then you have four apples.

vba_php · Dec 14, 2019

my point was that humans think differently. Machines have no business intermingling in our thought process. Perhaps the ending of the sentence should have been:

how many are left in the bowl?

moke123 · Dec 14, 2019

But the question was "How Many do YOU have?"

isladogs · Dec 14, 2019

If it asked how many were left in the bowl, the answer would of course have been 2 or two.
But the way I read the question, it didn't ask that. So its 4 or four.

vba_php · Dec 14, 2019

I realize that Colin. But the point still stands. To me, it's much easier, and more rewarding, to communicate with another human being and understand their viewpoint and help them accordingly (even if you stress that what they want is impractical), than to accept what is "logical" and what a machine would obviously find "correct".

Surely you're aware that most of the people that ask questions in this place don't have much knowledge about what "logical thinking" is or what "makes sense" to a machine. I answer people here all the time that obviously have no clue what they're doing, as do you.

The_Doc_Man · Dec 14, 2019

Adam, the implication of that question is they want to keep out people who are not smart enough to use the site?

my point was that humans think differently.

MY point is that a computer didn't design that question. Do you honestly think computers have reached the point where they can test US to see if WE pass the Turing test? What are they gonna do with the result?

Sort of like the question: We built this cemetery #3 last year after the war. We built that cemetery #2 two years ago during the war. We had this cemetery #1 built before the war. After the war, where did we bury the survivors?

If you answered, 1, 2, or 3 you are wrong.

pbaldy · Dec 14, 2019

Just to be difficult, I say the answer is 6.

It says you have a bowl with 6 in it and you take away 4, so you still have 6: 2 in the bowl and 4 in hand.

Bottom line, it's a poorly worded question.

vba_php · Dec 14, 2019

I get it Richard. Your point is well taken and understood. And no, the implication is not to keep out ignorance. Is that what I sound like in this thread? I hope not!

Another interesting twist on all of this is Steve Jobs' interview with CNN (or another news company?) when he was creating the NEXT operating system. In those days he was quoted as saying:

the reason you want to learn how to code is because it teaches you how to think

but what Jobs did not realize is that the majority of people that want to start doing this stuff are people who either don't have the intelligence right out of the gate to think like a machine or they simply can't think that way for any given reason. I mean, lets face it, coding for hours on end makes you feel pretty mechanical, doesn't it? I used to describe it as "the machine starting to take my soul away".

So the piece Steve Jobs was missing was the fact that human beings can become extremely useful as "teachers" or "helpers", or even "collaborators" if people want to get into this business. And if the newbie(s) eventually learn(s) to think in a logical manner, then obviously they have a better chance at being successful.

isladogs · Dec 14, 2019

Adam
Why don't you go back to the site and try all the alternatives suggested (including the text versions) and see which answer it accepts

vba_php · Dec 14, 2019

isladogs said:
Adam
Why don't you go back to the site and try all the alternatives suggested (including the text versions) and see which answer it accepts

I already had an account there before I ran this test, Colin. I don't want to get blocked by running multiple tests and having my ip address get the attention of the moderators. This test was probably not noticed because the AJAX code that produces the error message didn't insert anything into the database (I'm assuming this. I'm not a security expert). But if I hit a submit button multiple times for testing purposes, they will notice transactions like that.

The_Doc_Man · Dec 14, 2019

Adam, anyone can code once they become literate. The question is how WELL do they code? But learning to code helps people to learn the incredibly important skill of organizing their thoughts. People who write recipes are coding in the kitchen. People who write how-to books are coding with tools. People who compose music are coding with instruments and sounds. They just aren't perceived as coding because of people with limited mind-sets who can't see the analogy.

Micron · Dec 14, 2019

The question is ambiguous thus poorly worded for such a test. I also figured there were 2 answers - 4 or 6. No machine/pc formulated that question; it was a person - but not one who's capable of writing clearly if that's their typical output. Thus the whole notion about machines taking over is irrelevant if one is going to use that as an example.

vba_php · Dec 14, 2019

Micron said:
The question is ambiguous thus poorly worded for such a test. I also figured there were 2 answers - 4 or 6. No machine/pc formulated that question; it was a person - but not one who's capable of writing clearly if that's their typical output. Thus the whole notion about machines taking over is irrelevant if one is going to use that as an example.

I always assume machines are doing such tests because AI is everywhere in large scale apps like forums, especially Python related. As an added bonus to this thread, I responded to a posting on LinkedIn that showed a presenter with a whiteboard that read "putting machine learning to work". My comment in response to that:

machine learning will *never* be good enough to replace a human brain. Just yesterday I asked a virtual asssitant this question, for the purpose of bypassing it to talk to a human:

"Can you help me with a SHA1() output please? I need to know how to decrypt the following hash: [insert 32 bit hash here]. Within 10 seconds I was talking to a person who knew immediately that my question was too smart for a robot.

<edit>
Might I add that the customer service agent I talked to was very greatful to talk to me and we connected very well in terms of communication. I'm sure that made his day.

But as a facebook post of mine says, this workaround won't last long and it'll probably result in robot's saying repeatedly:

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question. Please choose from the following topics or tell me again what you need help with.

Micron · Dec 14, 2019

What does "doing" such tests mean? Does that mean you think a machine actually composed that question? Tell you what - if the answer is yes, please don't say so. Just ignore the question.

vba_php · Dec 14, 2019

Micron said:
What does "doing" such tests mean? Does that mean you think a machine actually composed that question? Tell you what - if the answer is yes, please don't say so. Just ignore the question.

I told you Micron. I have no idea. The only reason I captured the image of that happening was to show someone else (no one here) that machines will never be smarter than humans.

I also had to give someone else a little bit of a "push" because their attitude was off base about why testing people for software jobs that fall short in 1 or 2 areas of expertise is NOT accurate whatsoever. I used a database example and told them I would ask a candidate simply what they thought of it, not ask them to write a million query statements to prove themselves and make them feel like crap when they couldn't do it:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CN...Qn1Rbs18G3svJ2GNmc24C-k5mGSpxj7NA0Yk0GsaucMM4

isladogs · Dec 14, 2019

Perhaps worth pointing out that this is apparently a 'well known' trick question
https://www.google.com/search?q=If+you+have+a+bowl+with+six+apples+and+you+take+awaty+four%2C+how+many+do+you+have%3F&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB773GB773&oq=If+you+have+a+bowl+with+six+apples+and+you+take+awaty+four%2C+how+many+do+you+have%3F&aqs=chrome..69i57.46511j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
https://icebreakerideas.com/trick-questions/

vba_php · Dec 14, 2019

thanks Colin!

hey Micron,

You and I might work well together bro! I'm a big fan of Steve Jobs, and not because he ruled with an iron hand some of the time, but rather because he was a bickerer and a perfectionist. All that arguing he did with his employers and leaders eventually led to great products that the company produced under his tenure. So the point: when innovating, there is a difference between arguing and bickering. If learning and profitability can come out of it, I'm all for it.

<addition>
to all of you guys that have responded here...I'm kind of thinking this thread might be a little off-putting to newer members or inexperienced programmers that want to learn from us. I hope we don't end up deleting this thread, cuz it's kind of been entertaining!

The_Doc_Man · Dec 15, 2019

I'm not worried. I recall from a long time ago a little pithy adage from one of my computer classes - and it is as true today as it was 40 years ago: Artificial intelligence cannot cope with natural stupidity.

isladogs · Dec 15, 2019

vba_php said:
I answer people here all the time that obviously have no clue what they're doing, as do you.

That's either another example of ambiguous language or, in your opinion, I have no clue about what I am doing ...

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