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Old 04-16-2011, 06:14 PM   #46
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

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Originally Posted by debslucy View Post
I just feel as though there seems no easy place to start - its like its almost Da Vinci code - a secret society only certain people having the knowledge - i so want to learn but know one willing to teach.
I didn't mean to be discouraging and there are certainly plenty who will help you. However you need to be prepared for a pretty steep learning curve. It is an enormous field and I think most developers endure a lot of frustration for a considerable time.

In the bigger picture, the knowledge is not so much learned in a sequential way but infused where a myriad of loose ends and half understood concepts eventually tie in together over time.

There are books and online tutorials but they are often overwhelming. Unless you apply what you are reading the knowledge is lost among chapter after chapter of increasingly complex concepts.

Consequently the best place to start is to choose a real life project. This is far more motivating than doing exercises for the sake of the lesson. No database uses everything so without a project it is impossible to know which aspects you need to focus on learning first. That is generally the case, bar one.

Normalization. This is the foundation of relational database design and you need a good grasp of it to design the tables. Search the forum for this term and you will find there is much posted about it. "Relationships" is integral to the normalization concept so you will need to understand that too. Don't worry about anything else until you thoroughly understand them.

If you don't see how these concepts relate to certain aspects of your project design, ask some questions here. It is hard at first because you won't have all the language to express the questions fluently but you just have to try. You will need to get you ten posts up here so you can do the next step so ask away.

Once you think you have your tables normalized, post your database with a few sample records or alternatively an image of the relationships window. I cannot overstate the importance of getting this part right before moving on to queries and forms.

And welcome to the forum. You have taken the first step and a good one by looking for guidance here.

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Old 04-17-2011, 10:15 AM   #47
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

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Originally Posted by DCrake View Post
Dave (Gemma)

Your comment about Sendkeys

I have tried to use sendkeys in a VB project and Vista does not like it when you try and make a exe out of it as it treats this as a threat to security. Don't know how Access and Vista work together on this but it woould be nice to know.

David
David: Access does not handle Sendkeys well. The most often problem is it shuts off the numlock key. Other quirky behavior is the cursor will drop to the bottom, top or be hidden. In short, stay away from sendkeys. EWC
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:25 PM   #48
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

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Originally Posted by jason18 View Post
Woe betide any who plan their application to require constant design change to accomodate new data of the same kind, for they will never be released of the burden of development.
The sins of the original developer shall be visited upon their descendents.

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Old 08-26-2011, 09:11 AM   #49
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

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Originally Posted by DCrake View Post
Thow normally not in the right section, I felt, that as all newbies visit this section first this is the best place to address the above.

The Ten Commandments of Access

And it came to pass that the cries and lamentations of the Access newbies were heard on high by the gods of the Database, and their hearts were moved to pity for their followers. And they opened their mouths and spake, saying: "Nevermore shall the young and innocent wander witless on their journeys!
.
.
.

Here is the eleventh

11. Thou shalt use a real database engine such as SQL Server, Oracle... and learn to write real code in a real dev environment such as C#, C++ or Vb .net.


In responce to the PM from Rabbie,

1st it was never my intention to disrespect anyone of this forum.

If I offended anyone with my post, you've either misunderstood my post or don't know what you are missing.


2nd being a dba/developer of 30 years, I've found Access a royal pain to work with especially when building transactional multiuser applications.
Far too many times managers run the wrong direction when even the slightest mention that the application should be hosted on a enterprise class database engine. Access just doesn't scale well.

Last edited by toddbailey; 08-26-2011 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:51 PM   #50
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

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Originally Posted by toddbailey View Post
Here is the eleventh

11. Thou shalt use a real database engine such as SQL Server, Oracle... and learn to write real code in a real dev environment such as C#, C++ or Vb .net.

... being a dba/developer of 30 years, I've found Access a royal pain to work with especially when building transactional multiuser applications.
Far too many times managers run the wrong direction when even the slightest mention that the application should be hosted on a enterprise class database engine. Access just doesn't scale well.
This attitude overlooks the many, many thousands of highly servicable multiuser database applications built on Access.

Access is an easy-to-learn, rapid development platform. While it is not suited to highly demanding applications with huge numbers of users, it certainly does have a place in small business.

Far too many times business needs are not met because a simple Access application was overlooked while management listened to the advice of adherents so the "real database" crowd, pushing the cost so far beyond the available budget that the project was abandonned.

Jet/ACE is a real database engine. VBA is a real programming language. Both are far more powerful and versatile than the primitive DOS and csv based text databases that served the purpose of major applications for many years while computers lacked the capacity to do what can be done today.

Those who "find Access a pain" are really just expressing their lack of capacity to work with the tools available.
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Old 08-26-2011, 11:46 PM   #51
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddbailey View Post
Here is the eleventh

11. Thou shalt use a real database engine such as SQL Server, Oracle... and learn to write real code in a real dev environment such as C#, C++ or Vb .net.

2nd being a dba/developer of 30 years, I've found Access a royal pain to work with especially when building transactional multiuser applications.
Far too many times managers run the wrong direction when even the slightest mention that the application should be hosted on a enterprise class database engine. Access just doesn't scale well.
Todd,

This shows a real naivety on your part of where Access sits in the universe. As Galaxiom points out, many projects simply would never happen without the Access platform.

In the UK, over 98% of businesses have less than 20 people. I imagine that statistic is typical of most western countries. I wonder how many database are built in Access compared to the number built on server platforms?

Many small businesses have neither the budget nor the skills nor the requirement to go down the “real database” route. Moreover, Access actually opens the door to users (not database developers) such as me to provide solutions. The same is true for low priority projects in large businesses that will never see the light of day if they take the bureaucratic route.

Nevertheless, putting aside the dark undertone of your comment, I think there is a valid point in there. Maybe something like:

Thou shalt understand the capabilities of Access. Thou shalt consider a spreadsheet if a database methodology is not required. Though shalt consider server based platforms if the user, data, functionalities and strategic aims exceed those of Access.

Chris
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:33 AM   #52
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

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Originally Posted by stopher View Post
Todd,


Thou shalt understand the capabilities of Access. Thou shalt consider a spreadsheet if a database methodology is not required. Though shalt consider server based platforms if the user, data, functionalities and strategic aims exceed those of Access.

Chris
Hear, Hear !

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Old 08-29-2011, 09:32 AM   #53
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

Just to add some more wood to the fire:
There is such a thing as an OLD and a NEW Testament.
Are these "10" Forum commandments part of the OLD Forum Testament?
If so, can I hand in a change request, for 100 commandments as part of the NEW Testament? ha ha.
just joking. I think the effect of the commandments has sunk in.
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Old 08-30-2011, 08:48 AM   #54
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

Responce to Chris:


Perhaps, and regardless of your opinions on my skill levels, after over 20 years of professional development experience, I found Access vers 1.0 quite slow, clunky and bug ridden.
Now roughly 10-15 years later, I find Access 2010 quite slow, clunky and bug ridden. With the release of free versions of Sql Server, VB and C#.
Why would any one want to use a such a broken tool when they can use professional development class tools?
Yes it's ok for a class room setting and demonstrating how a relational database works, but it's sorely lacking in all areas. It's suitable for small mom and pop sized companies.
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Old 08-30-2011, 09:07 AM   #55
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

#55

Religious wars are devoid of arguments and full of BS and convictions. If you have 20 years of professional development experience, then you'd know that different occasions warrant the use of different tools. That is, unless the real world has passed you by. Not all business can go through a by-the-book software lifecyle, but have to get by as best they can. And btw - the huge majority of businesses are mom and pop-sized. That may also explain Microsoft's efforts committed to developing such a - in your view - deficient tool.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:47 AM   #56
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

Jesus H Christ,

I offer a bit of friendly advice and every one gives me grief.
And all I was trying to do was point out Access's weakness and it's place in the programming universe.


Mr Moderator, Please delete my posts and while you are at it delete my account. If I wanted attitude, I can call my ex.

Thank you
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:57 AM   #57
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

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Mr Moderator, Please delete my posts and while you are at it delete my account.
Sounds like a winner to me. If anyone came into your house Mr. Bailey and began talking about how crapy your interior decor is or how antiquated your floorplan is how would you respond. I would like you to take a look in your own mirror and see who has an attitude...

talking about the pot calling the kettle black... sheesh

Go play farmville or something and get over it...

2 cents
Goh

BTW.. we're using MsACCESS to provide solutions to issues that others don't want to take time to bother with and suceeding quite nicely thank you...

Last edited by GohDiamond; 08-30-2011 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 08-30-2011, 03:07 PM   #58
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

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Originally Posted by toddbailey View Post
Now roughly 10-15 years later, I find Access 2010 quite slow, clunky and bug ridden.
Some people often mistake their inability to understand the way a program works for bugs.
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Old 08-31-2011, 06:55 AM   #59
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

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Originally Posted by Rabbie View Post
Disagree entirely. There are many good database managers without degrees who have learned their skills on the job and are much better than some people with degrees. The important thing is that the person understands what they are doing and not whether they have a degree.
Thanks! I have to admit... I have a degree, a first at that, but it has nothing to do with Computers at all... it was Psychology with Education Studies! I would like to think that with time, practice and dedication I will be able to become a skilled programmer one day :-)
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:53 AM   #60
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Re: The Ten Commandments of Access

It is good to know about the 10 commandments of access. Thank you for sharing the idea.

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