NauticalGent
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Well stated Vassago. I am so tired of hearing that flawed logic that I no longer respond.
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Is Mr Trump crazy? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ColinEssex
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Orthodox Dave
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Democracy, while flawed, is the best system anyone has come up with for electing governments and presidents. It works as long as people can agree that "I may not like the result, but it was done democratically, so I'll accept it".
Thank goodness in the US and here in the UK there are checks and balances to prevent a leader from single-handedly doing something insane - and this has been proven several times in the US recently. Even our leaders are subject to the law.
All these public debates (such as this one) are healthy and help the democratic process, provided they don't attempt to undermine democracy itself.
Most people I know this side of the pond were astonished that the Donald was even listened to, let alone voted for, and it's easy to conclude there must be something odd about Americans! But in my humble opinion, Trump addressed himself to the concerns of large numbers of underprivileged Americans who felt no-one listened to them before and probably no-one had.
So hopefully the "political elite" will wake up to this and realise they must address the needs of ALL Americans, not just their traditional voters. It's a big reality check. Trump himself scares me - reminds me of an unpredictable school bully - but we can't ignore that many millions voted for him - they can't all be idiots.
Thank goodness in the US and here in the UK there are checks and balances to prevent a leader from single-handedly doing something insane - and this has been proven several times in the US recently. Even our leaders are subject to the law.
All these public debates (such as this one) are healthy and help the democratic process, provided they don't attempt to undermine democracy itself.
Most people I know this side of the pond were astonished that the Donald was even listened to, let alone voted for, and it's easy to conclude there must be something odd about Americans! But in my humble opinion, Trump addressed himself to the concerns of large numbers of underprivileged Americans who felt no-one listened to them before and probably no-one had.
So hopefully the "political elite" will wake up to this and realise they must address the needs of ALL Americans, not just their traditional voters. It's a big reality check. Trump himself scares me - reminds me of an unpredictable school bully - but we can't ignore that many millions voted for him - they can't all be idiots.
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I love the irony in Trump's condemnation of Venezuelan president Nicolás Maduro for arresting his opposition when that is exactly what he would do if he could get away with it!
I reckon he's jealous!
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I reckon he's jealous!
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NauticalGent
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Smoke and Mirrors . He feeds from the same trough as the Clintons and ilk that infests Capitol Hill.
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ColinEssex
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How is the wall coming along? Haven't heard much of it lately.
From here, it seems the US government is in turmoil, what with all these sackings and stuff.
Also, it won't be long before the USA starts a Korean War Mk 2, old Trumpy seems set on it by sending a massive flotilla of battleships to sail off the North Korean coast.
It makes the wall seem insignificant. Thousands of yanks will be killed again in a Korean War. Then they'll fail like they did in Vietnam.
Col
From here, it seems the US government is in turmoil, what with all these sackings and stuff.
Also, it won't be long before the USA starts a Korean War Mk 2, old Trumpy seems set on it by sending a massive flotilla of battleships to sail off the North Korean coast.
It makes the wall seem insignificant. Thousands of yanks will be killed again in a Korean War. Then they'll fail like they did in Vietnam.
Col
AccessBlaster
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My understanding is they have prototypes, and plans. Anyone who signs on to construct the wall will have nothing but death threats and boycotts. You know from the very peaceful, progressive left.
But does seem to be inching forward.
AccessBlaster
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BTW is Brexit off the table? Have you changed your collective minds about determining your own fate.
NauticalGent
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These "wars" are not intended to be won or lost, just sustained. USMC Lt Col Smedley Butler said it best: War Is a Racket.
Orthodox Dave
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He's talking about putting solar panels on it
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40363390
But wouldn't they be on the southern (Mexican) side?
isladogs
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Close to where I live a company proposed putting a huge solar farm on a north facing hill.
When asked why there and why so big, they said it had to be large as it was north facing!
Then the penny finally dropped and they went somewhere else....
Suggest he builds a huge wall around Trump Tower with no access to Twitter and shuts himself in permanently
Frothingslosh
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1) DHS on Tuesday granted a waiver on all the laws protecting the animals that seasonally migrate from the US to Mexico and back so that Trump can start building his wall.
2) Regarding him talking about solar panels, those weren't his suggestion. Personally, I'm surprised he isn't raging about them harming good patriotic American coal-mining jobs.
3) Remember that this IS the same guy who also said that the wall needs to be transparent so that American citizens don't get killed by bags of drugs thrown over the Wall by Mexicans. (I would have said Mexican criminals, but to conservatives, the two words have the same meaning.)
2) Regarding him talking about solar panels, those weren't his suggestion. Personally, I'm surprised he isn't raging about them harming good patriotic American coal-mining jobs.
3) Remember that this IS the same guy who also said that the wall needs to be transparent so that American citizens don't get killed by bags of drugs thrown over the Wall by Mexicans. (I would have said Mexican criminals, but to conservatives, the two words have the same meaning.)
ColinEssex
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It's still going on.
It has been estimated that to completely exit will take at least 10 years, so I don't really care what happens.
Col
Orthodox Dave
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If that happens, our Brexit is in tatters - we'll go to the back of the queue again!
NauticalGent
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What is the overall consensus on this? We have a few U.K. NATO members here that are pretty livid.
Interestingly enough, the is one German officer who thinks it is great and wants Germany to follow suite...
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In an off-the-wall sense, this is the USA's centralized / distributed government argument all over again.
AccessBlaster
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Trump is the wall.
Orthodox Dave
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Re Brexit
But more people voted to leave the EU than voted for any winning political party for a very long time. Now the nuances creep in - such as leaving the EU but staying in the Single Market or staying in the Customs Union.
If we stay in the Single Market or Customs Union, we still don't have control of our borders and still can't make trade deals with other countries, but have the disadvantage of having no influence on EU decisions either. That's the worst of all worlds - I think most Brexiteers would have preferred to stay in the EU if that was the only alternative.
Unfortunately the UK is split almost down the middle on Brexit - there isn't a consensus.
But more people voted to leave the EU than voted for any winning political party for a very long time. Now the nuances creep in - such as leaving the EU but staying in the Single Market or staying in the Customs Union.
If we stay in the Single Market or Customs Union, we still don't have control of our borders and still can't make trade deals with other countries, but have the disadvantage of having no influence on EU decisions either. That's the worst of all worlds - I think most Brexiteers would have preferred to stay in the EU if that was the only alternative.
Minty
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The real issue with the whole vote was that a majority of people who voted to leave, actually had no idea what they were really voting for.
Not one person on the leave campaign had any clue what would be involved if they actually won, and had to carry out the leaving process. And subsequently none of them have been allowed anywhere near trying to sort out the massive "kludge" that will be our leaving the EU.
It was all based on "Stopping the Immigrants coming in(sic)" and "Saving £347 Sqillion a day" and giving it to our National Health Service. (Another blatant lie.)
So as usual the poor old general public made a suitably un-informed decision.
IMHO
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Ah, I understand better now, Minty. It follows an old saying in the USA - when the voting public votes without thinking, they get the result they deserve for doing that.