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Old 02-04-2019, 04:19 PM   #2191
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Re: Shootings in US schools

I'm an American who is not Christian. I'll keep my gun-owning status to myself except to say that there are definitely some gun owners who should not own them. I even know some that are far too trigger-happy and actually WANT to have a reason to use it. I don't know how some people get beyond the background checks.

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Old 02-04-2019, 08:12 PM   #2192
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Re: Shootings in US schools

Col

Technically, the Bible doesn't care about killings. The translation SHOULD read "Thou shalt not commit murder." The Bible allows self-defense, though I cannot quote chapter and verse at the moment. But certainly what David did to Goliath was condoned.

I happen to agree with you about the "fanciful fairy tale."

There are places in the USA where citizens carry weapons, but the truth is that it isn't nearly as common as you might think - that is, you would think based on the sensationalist news headlines and crazy stories. I have a gun in the home hidden away but I do not carry it. I can get it fairly quickly if I need it but it is not where it is obvious to any casual onlooker.
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Old 02-05-2019, 03:48 AM   #2193
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Re: Shootings in US schools

Hell, I live in a city that has on several occasions had the highest murder rate in the nation, and work in a different city that has ALSO held that 'honor', and the only weapon I even own is a katana I won in a card tournament. The only time I've ever felt the need for a gun was the night twenty years ago where I got robbed while closing a friend's store for him. Very few of my friends own guns, either.

I've shot them, and because I grew up in a house where my father owned at least 5 working guns and God only knows how many replicas, I had learned both gun safety and how to shoot while I was in grade school, but as an adult I've pretty much just never felt the need to own one. (Which, by the way, makes me rather unique in my family - my sisters each own at least two, and my aunts, uncles, and cousins all own more than that.)

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Old 02-05-2019, 04:55 AM   #2194
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Re: Shootings in US schools

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Originally Posted by The_Doc_Man View Post
Col

Technically, the Bible doesn't care about killings. The translation SHOULD read "Thou shalt not commit murder." The Bible allows self-defense, . . . . . . .
Nice one Doc, I must be getting old, I never thought of that.

If the words in the bible do not suit - say it's a translation fault and make up your own words.

Quick question, if one carries a gun, does one have a shoulder holster like Steve McGarrett in Hawaii Five O? Or do you just carry it like an umbrella? Maybe a waist type holster like Cowboys have?

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Old 02-05-2019, 05:12 AM   #2195
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Re: Shootings in US schools

The most common holster for concealed carry seems to be on the belt, inside the pants in the small of the back or slightly off to one side. The shoulder holster is more for people who expect to need it at any time, but still want it hidden.

For open carry, it's a simple, compact belt holster right at waist level that has a strap or flap that snaps shut to hold it in place.

The cowboy holster you're thinking of is mostly a thing of the past. It was made for revolvers, and they are far from the handgun of choice today.

Edit: It looks like hidden waist level holsters are pretty popular as well. Here are a bunch of images of modern holsters, although it looks like most of them are designed for open carry.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pist...active&ssui=on
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:54 AM   #2196
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Re: Shootings in US schools

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If the words in the bible do not suit - say it's a translation fault and make up your own words.
Just a fine point, Col. I'm not the originator of that sentiment. I've seen online in a few other places where people had trouble with the words used in the King James Version because it has been shown to be a biased translation. They suggest quite strongly that the original phrase SHOULD have been translated as "Thou shalt not murder." Of course, "murder" and "kill" ARE very similar, but that commandment, when taken as "kill," would have resulted in condemnation of David, the man who would (eventually) be King David.

But of course, for a fanciful fairy tale, who CARES whether the translation is spot-on? Oh, wait, those who still believe in the fairy tale do.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:51 AM   #2197
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Re: Shootings in US schools

Apparently the actual phrase used in ancient Hebrew was Lo tirtzach!, which literally translates as 'Do not murder'. A treatise on it written by a rabbi is HERE, breaking down justified vs unjustified vs necessary killings, linguistic breakdowns, relevant legal history, etc.

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Old 02-05-2019, 08:24 AM   #2198
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Re: Shootings in US schools

Thanks Frothy for the explanation and pictures. The pics are not what I imagined, I was expecting to see all the bullets round the waist.

When you use the phrase "inside the pants" I'm guessing you mean trousers. "Pants" in real English refers to underwear.

So when people say "carry" a gun, they mean wear a gun? How do people wear a rifle or one of those AK type machine gun things? Is it ok to walk down the shopping mall with one in ones hand? Or is that frowned on.

Col

PS Doc, there was a joke on TV last night by a Canadian comic Stuart Francis, he said

"Americans pray before every meal - imagine praying 14 times a day"
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Old 02-05-2019, 08:31 AM   #2199
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Re: Shootings in US schools

The Bible has been altered and changed so much over the years, with words being used as a closest translation, it's far from its original form anyway. Can you really call it "God's word" when it's been changed and interpreted by people, of which the Bible says are not perfect?
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Old 02-05-2019, 09:35 AM   #2200
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Re: Shootings in US schools

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Thanks Frothy for the explanation and pictures. The pics are not what I imagined, I was expecting to see all the bullets round the waist.

When you use the phrase "inside the pants" I'm guessing you mean trousers. "Pants" in real English refers to underwear.

So when people say "carry" a gun, they mean wear a gun? How do people wear a rifle or one of those AK type machine gun things? Is it ok to walk down the shopping mall with one in ones hand? Or is that frowned on.
'Pants' in American English is, indeed, 'trousers' in British English. For underwear, we just say 'underwear' or else refer to the type.

When you're carrying a gun, it means you have one on your person somewhere. It might be a holstered pistol, it might be a rifle slung over a shoulder; both count. Same when someone is said to be 'packing', which is itself short for 'packing heat'.

If you're carrying around a rifle (and the AK and AR are both types of rifles, although it's far more common to encounter carbine versions than full rifles for them, and the AK is very rare here), it's generally attached to a strap and worn like a bandolier, with the rifle on the back. People not carrying one for show or immediate use will often just stick them in rifle bags instead.

In most (but not all) places here, it's technically allowed for you to walk down the street with a rifle. Some cities (Chicago comes to mind) have local ordinances making it illegal to carry guns around (you can own them, just not go around armed), but by and large, open carry is legal.

HOWEVER

First of all, socially, it's very much frowned upon, and just walking around with a slung rifle will get you a lot of attention - we have too many crazies shooting up all sorts of places for people to be anything but worried when they see that. As a rule, though, if you see someone walking around with a slung rifle, they're generally trying to make a pointless political statement. (They're also guaranteeing they're the ones who get shot if someone tries to rob the place. Probably from behind.)

Second, cops WILL come out and at least see what the hell is going on, and GOD HELP YOU if you're black. There are YouTube videos you can look up where a white guy and then a black guy each open carry, and you see the completely different police reaction each gets.

Third, there are a lot of places where state and/or federal law expressly forbids you to bring a firearm. Courts, airports, any place serving alcohol, sports venues, schools, often hospitals...bring guns there and you're likely going to jail, even if you didn't plan anything untoward.
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Old 02-05-2019, 09:37 AM   #2201
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Re: Shootings in US schools

Oh, also, with a few strict exceptions, all weapons firing more than one shot per trigger pull are illegal for civilian ownership in the US. That's why the Las Vegas shooter was using a bump stock to fake it. If you see someone walking around with an SMG, get the hell out of Dodge, because something's about to go down.
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Old 02-05-2019, 10:09 AM   #2202
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Re: Shootings in US schools

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vassago View Post
The Bible has been altered and changed so much over the years, with words being used as a closest translation, it's far from its original form anyway. Can you really call it "God's word" when it's been changed and interpreted by people, of which the Bible says are not perfect?
A to the Men on that...
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Old 02-05-2019, 10:13 AM   #2203
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Re: Shootings in US schools

Quote:
The translation SHOULD read "Thou shalt not commit murder." The Bible allows self-defense,
My devout Christian (Pentecostal preacher’s daughter!) wife and I have had more than one “discussion” on this bit. We have agreed to disagree and moved on...

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