Gun laws do they work (1 Viewer)

tinyevil777

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Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total
of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------

So you genuinely believe that Germany's extermination of jews, and genocide as a general happening, would have been avoided had the victims been provided with arms?

Wow.
 
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Adam Caramon

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Taking an isolated video gamer to a gun range does not prove that violence in video games, on TV and in the movies does not have an affect on our society.

Of course not, I'm certain that it does have an affect. I think it particularly has an effect on young kids and early teenagers. This is why games are rated, and particularly violent games are not able to be purchased by individuals under 17 years of age. As with many things, this is an issue of poor parenting.

There is generally no question that the United States has the most violent culture among the industrialized nations. I am open to any suggestions as to why this is and what we can DO about it.

Violence sells. Think of UFC or boxing. You have 2 individuals entering a ring and trying to hurt the other person so much that they are knocked unconscious. And there are thousands of people that attend these events and purchase them at home on Pay-Per-View.

In American football, you have study after study showing that repeated hits to the head can cause brain injuries (should be obvious, but organizations fight against this). After that evidence, you have people and organizations fighting against safer regulations, changing the rules to prevent head-to-head collisions, etc.

What do we do about it? Take responsibility for yourself. If you purchase tickets to a boxing match or UFC bout, understand that you're supporting this type of violence. If you purchase a firearm, understand that you're supporting a special interest that pours millions of dollars into the political arena.

I don't understand these two statements:

I don't believe that guns cause violence.
...
I do believe that they exascerbate the situation...

Is that like saying you don't think alcohol causes people to act stupidly, but it does exacerbate the situation?

People who own guns seem to fall into two different groups. The first group owns guns for hunting or target practice. I'd call this the "normal" group. They are responsible and keep their weapons secured. The second group own guns for personal protection. They tend to rant and rave about the second amendment, threaten violence against others when gun control is discussed, and have wet dreams about intruders entering their homes.

Look at most of the other modern countries of the world. They tend to be smarter than us, healthier than us, live longer, more progressive, and are not obsessed with guns. Somehow, we have convinced ourselves that we're the greatest country in the world, and as such, that means everyone else must be doing it wrong. As a country, we are far too proud to recognize that the citizens of these other countries live better lives than we do.

I think that our approach needs to be multifacited and not have each of us target our own scape goat.

The problem is that there is far too much money lined up against any approach that limits assault rifles, high-capacity clips, etc. We can't adequately address mental health in this country (costs money, conservatives are against it) or curtail purchases of violent video games or movies by minors (regulation, conservatives are against it).

At best, we might be able to enforce background checks for gun purchasers and eliminate the gun show loop hole, but I wouldn't be surprised if conservatives fight against that as well.
 

Dick7Access

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So you genuinely believe that Germany's extermination of jews, and genocide as a general happening, would have been avoided had the victims been provided with arms?

Wow.

I am not affirming or dis-affirming anything I is just copied and paste an article that I thought was interesting.
 

RainLover

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Dick

You are indeed a Champion. Always happy to stand on both sides of the fence.
 

Dick7Access

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That's funny. It never ceases to amaze me how different people interpret a post. It's not that I am straddling the fence. There is just too much info in that post for me too analyze to come right out and say I agree or disagree at this time. I am sure from previous post no one can not know I am pro-gun. In fact as I write this I have just come back from having my finger prints taken for a gun permit application
 

RainLover

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Dick

Did they give them back to you when they finished.
 

Adam Caramon

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It never ceases to amaze me how different people interpret a post.

On a discussion forum you generally post sources or excerpts to strength your argument or to refute someone's argument. Posting a bunch of gibberish without referencing it is simply lazy. If we wanted to read just gibberish, we could Google "pro-gun arguments", for example.
 

Dick7Access

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On a discussion forum you generally post sources or excerpts to strength your argument or to refute someone's argument. Posting a bunch of gibberish without referencing it is simply lazy. If we wanted to read just gibberish, we could Google "pro-gun arguments", for example.

(generally) is the key word. I will post what you think is gibberish if I want. You have a choice to read it if you want, or ignore it. There is one thing in post that is accurate. Each country listed did take guns away.
 

Brianwarnock

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I don't know why Adam used "generally" as it is the "only" reason people post sources or excerpts.

As you have not read it to confirm the data anybody could say that it is wrong, as so much of it is, I laughed when I read some of it, it should be on the joke thread.

Brian
 

Brianwarnock

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During the Warsaw uprising the people were armed but still got slaughtered by the professionals, the professionals always win, well except in Vietnam, but then the Viet Cong were a carry over from the Viet Minh so were well used to beating intruders to their country.

Brian
 

Adam Caramon

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Dick7Access said:
(generally) is the key word. I will post what you think is gibberish if I want. You have a choice to read it if you want, or ignore it.

You're free to do whatever you like Dick. I'm just pointing out that it is disrespectful to other forum goers to post a bunch of gibberish without trying to make a point or argue a cause.

I don't know why Adam used "generally" as it is the "only" reason people post sources or excerpts.

I was trying to make sure I wasn't crossing the line from explaining to attacking.

...I laughed when I read some of it, it should be on the joke thread.

Exactly.
 

RainLover

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It is unwise to think that just because it is on the WWW it has any credience.

The same as News Papers and the Media in general.

There is one thing for sure andthat is that there is going to be a lot more innocent people killed just so that people like Dick can feel tough because they have a Gun.

Why is it that women are not arguing the point in favour of Guns. Might be because they have Children that they don't want to see killed by people like Dick who have guns.

PS Dick is just a name. It is not a reference to the Dick here. Aussies would understand the use of the word.
 

Dick7Access

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It is unwise to think that just because it is on the WWW it has any credience.

The same as News Papers and the Media in general.

There is one thing for sure andthat is that there is going to be a lot more innocent people killed just so that people like Dick can feel tough because they have a Gun.

Why is it that women are not arguing the point in favour of Guns. Might be because they have Children that they don't want to see killed by people like Dick who have guns.

PS Dick is just a name. It is not a reference to the Dick here. Aussies would understand the use of the word.

There is a mother in CT that is starting a movement to ban guns. She says she doesn’t what to have any more mothers have to go thru what she has had to go thru having to bury her precious child. I sympathize with her. I am sure the pain she feels is overwhelming. I also don’t want any more mothers, fathers, sister, brothers, grandparents, Aunts, Uncles etc. to have to go thru what this poor mother went thru. I, however, with all my being believe that banning guns from law abiding citizen will make it worse. I am for security check. We have had weeks of coverage by the mass media on the school shooting, but hardly ever hear of the lives that have been saved just the past three or four weeks because a home owner had a gun. We do have many women that a are pro-gun, the mass media just won’t report it. Ask the woman in GA that just save the life of her two 9 year old daughters from an evil person with a lengthy arrest record. Just for the record, I for one, do not feel macho because I own a gun. (I know a few that do!) In fact it grieves my very soul that my beloved country that I have served all my life from Boy Scouts, Police officer, military and wayward boys should be so have so many evil despicable people that they could even think of committing such an evil crime as shooting innocent children, but it’s a fact of my America.
 

Adam Caramon

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We do have many women that a are pro-gun, the mass media just won’t report it. Ask the woman in GA that just save the life of her two 9 year old daughters from an evil person with a lengthy arrest record.

Is CNN not part of the mass media? http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/10/us/home-invasion-gun-rights/index.html?iref=allsearch

ABC News? http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/mom-shot-intruder-inspires-gun-control-foes-18175262

And I know you consider this group to be "news": http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/0...shot-intruder-inspires-opponents-gun-control/

So you see Dick, with 5 minutes of searching, I just refuted your claim that the mass media won't report on these stories.

I think this is further evidence that most of what you claim as fact is simply your feelings.
 

RainLover

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Dick

I think Adam just had a shot at you.

But then again I believe Adam has been gunning for you for a while now.

Why he has targeted you I have no idea.
 

Dick7Access

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Is CNN not part of the mass media? http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/10/us/home-invasion-gun-rights/index.html?iref=allsearch

ABC News? http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/mom-shot-intruder-inspires-gun-control-foes-18175262

And I know you consider this group to be "news": http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/0...shot-intruder-inspires-opponents-gun-control/

So you see Dick, with 5 minutes of searching, I just refuted your claim that the mass media won't report on these stories.

I think this is further evidence that most of what you claim as fact is simply your feelings.

You got me Adam, now we both feel good. Isn't it wonderful. I love it.
 

Brianwarnock

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Is it legal to shoot somebody in your home/on your property without warnong? If so I'm glad I don't live in the States as my passion is walking and I could end up dead because of accidental trespass.

Seriously this guy seemed to be more than a burglar as he appeared to go looking for the family, but why didn't she shout when he first rang the bell that she wasn't going to answer the door but was armed and would shoot, why not dial 911 as soon as he came back to break in.

Brian
 

Brianwarnock

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SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
SWITZERLAND 'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED
COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

See what happens when you have the ultimate in gun control rather than America's free for all.

Brian
 

Maineac

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People who own guns seem to fall into two different groups. The first group owns guns for hunting or target practice. I'd call this the "normal" group. They are responsible and keep their weapons secured. The second group own guns for personal protection. They tend to rant and rave about the second amendment, threaten violence against others when gun control is discussed, and have wet dreams about intruders entering their homes.

Adam, I think the situation is more complex than you indicate here. I would suggest you read a little of Sam Harris' blog. Sam is a renoun athiest and writer. He is quite intelligent and not your typical pro-gun evangelist.

As to whether a change in this issue is possible, I would say that the first thing to do is to get more involved with groups that are promoting the kind of change you would like to see. And then get your friends and acquaintenences involved as well. You have to start somewhere.
 

Dick7Access

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Dick

I think Adam just had a shot at you.

But then again I believe Adam has been gunning for you for a while now.

Why he has targeted you I have no idea.

RL, its ok, it doesn’t bother me, but it’s not hard to explain. When the left can’t back up there position they attack the person. Now this post is not aimed at Adam, as I cannot automatically assume that he is a leftist, as some people maybe center or even on the right and just enjoy spreading discourse. In fact hardly anybody is either right or left on everything, however I personally probable come pretty close to being far right on everything. To the left facts are not as relevant as attacking the person. If they can find one little seed in a comment that they can disprove to them it makes everything the person said null and void. If they can find a miss-spelling, or a grammatical error, or one little wrong date, then to them that proves their position is not valid. Our sad example for a president has run his whole campaign like that. When choosing a man to run a country who gives rats behind if he had his dog on the top of the car. For example I said the mass media doesn’t report the good side. (what I consider good) Well of course they report it, how else would I know about it. The intent was that if it furthers there causes that it’s on the front page, it’s on 24 hours, it’s on for days. If it doesn’t fit their goals then it goes on the fourth page under cooking. I will bet that million have not heard about the mother having saving her own life as well as her two daughters.
 

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