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Brianwarnock · Oct 20, 2017

Mike375 said:
The 22 rim fire was and is and will continue to be the biggest killer in Australia and that includes suicide. However, it is in the least restrictive category

The 22 rim fire is also the most commonly used in crime.

On the other hand some calibres that are banned or highly restricted have probably never been used for any type of illegal activity anywhere in the world, not even shooting a road sign.

Sounds like a good argument for restriction;

Brian

Mike375 · Oct 20, 2017

Brianwarnock said:
Sounds like a good argument for restriction;

Brian

Yes.....but gun laws are not based on community safety. In fact many of the gun laws/restrictions go against community safety.

Money and Employment......

Mark_ · Oct 20, 2017

Brianwarnock said:
Sounds like a good argument for restriction;

Brian

If restriction is based on many, many users using a product safely but only a few harming themselves or others, then we had best first and foremost get knives out of the hands of the general public. Same with that nasty stuff, dihydrogen monoxide!

Sources:
https://www.royallifesaving.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/14559/RLS_NDR2015_Report_LR.pdf

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html

AccessBlaster · Oct 20, 2017

According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, 390 deaths a year on average are attributed to drowning in a swimming pool or at a spa.

That's a Jumbo Jet full of kids...Not to mention cars, toys and other everyday things. I say ban life its dangerous.

Mark_ · Oct 20, 2017

Doing some surfing about for U.S. statistics, I've found something fairly relevant for this discussion.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-12

I used a total of all "Handguns" + "Rifles" + "Shotguns" to calculate a percentage of how many deaths are attributed directly to each. This gave a staggering number of 636. The ratio to handguns though is less than one to twelve.

Using the percentage for "Rifles" + "Shotguns" I conclude that on average another 268 are included in the "type unknown", a fact that reflects poorly on U.S. Law enforcement's ability to verify what weapon was used.

This gives a rather staggering number of 904 killed in 2016 by long arms. Surprisingly the number killed by "Knives or cutting instruments" is higher at 1604 and is actually closer to the 656 killed by "Hands, Fists, Feet, ect."

The true numbers are rather horrid, but does make one feel more comfortable around the fellow carrying an assault rifle than the one wearing martial arts attire.

Mike375 · Oct 22, 2017

We are plagued by...if it saves one life, saves one investment or saves "whatever, then it is worth...and so a law is introduced.

I wonder how many people on this forum would be happy if laws were passed whereby you need a special licence etc. to sell someone an Access application or even something in Excel.

Of course in the modern climate the non Access/Excel person would think...sound reasonable to me and so the politicians would go ahead.

The_Doc_Man · Oct 23, 2017

But in fact such laws exist in the USA. They are called "occupational licenses."

You need an occupational license for just about any business. Cosmeticians and barbers need them. Plumbing businesses need them. Retail outlets need them. And it should be noted that having the license only means you paid the tax to open a business. It has nothing to do with whether you are competent.

Then there was the story of the fortune teller/psychic who opened a business without first obtaining a license. When she was arrested, her only comment was "I didn't see that coming."

Mike375 · Oct 23, 2017

We have to have an ABN (Australian Business Number) but that is only to register to collect GST (Goods and Services Tax).

But that number does not relate to any licence you might or might night need for different occupations.

In fact the computer business, whether hardware, data bases, websites etc. and etc. is one of the few remaining occupations in Australia where you don't need all sorts of licences/qualifications. In my experience the more "licencing" you have the more rip offs you get. That should be no surprise as the customer tends to drop his guard a lot more when the business has to be all licenced up.

ColinEssex · Oct 24, 2017

So licensing doesn't work then.

It is fair to say that in the uk, we have "charity fatigue". That is we have so many adverts on TV showing starving people , especially babies you can see through - dozens of charities, all asking for £3 a month to solve the worlds problems - minus of course the cost of the advert and the sky high charity executives salary and Jaguar cars.
In America, do you have "mass shooting fatigue"? Ok, some nut shoots half a dozen people for fun, does it warrant front page or just a paragraph on page 10.

Col

AnthonyGerrard · Oct 25, 2017

Mike375 said:
We are plagued by...if it saves one life, saves one investment or saves "whatever, then it is worth...and so a law is introduced.

I wonder how many people on this forum would be happy if laws were passed whereby you need a special licence etc. to sell someone an Access application or even something in Excel.

Of course in the modern climate the non Access/Excel person would think...sound reasonable to me and so the politicians would go ahead.

I believ Australia is one of teh most regulated countries there is.

I think this is done in a large part for existing Australians benefit. In a high immigration country new comers are forced to get permits to do all kinds, taking time to work up the ladder, not just going straight in and using the skills they have - they effectivley have to work their way up again.

In some states drivers need 75+ hours supervised learning to get a licence. Crazy amount of time. Judging by the standard of driving - yes that over regulation doesnt work at all! ;-)

The_Doc_Man · Oct 26, 2017

Col:

In America, do you have "mass shooting fatigue"? Ok, some nut shoots half a dozen people for fun, does it warrant front page or just a paragraph on page 10.

Mass shootings make the front page most of the time, but the truth is that most of the time the story quickly leaves the headlines and the follow-up installments are printed on page 10. The current problem is that the U.S. Congress is in session and that is the REAL source of our "bread and circuses."

So licensing doesn't work then.

In the US, licensing does exactly what it was supposed to do. Bring in tax revenue. There is no claim that a person holding an occupational license is qualified. Only that the proper tax was paid. The person USUALLY displays a diploma or certificate for the "qualifications" part of whatever they do.

We also have the "charity fatigue" in the US. I ignore the adverts completely. I treat them as a small fraction of 1% over random noise. My wife and I contribute directly to some organizations we have checked on-line to determine that they actually put the donated money in the place one would hope it goes... to the needy. We have a caller I.D. on the phone and if we don't recognize the caller, we just let the answering machine take it. If the ID says "Anonymous" or "Toll Free Call" or "Unknown" then we don't bother.

The TV ads that REALLY make me groan are the ones where they will send you a picture of the waif or animal or whatever it is that you rescued with "your generous donation." I've got no time for the folks who use that ploy.

Mark_ · Oct 26, 2017

Well, mass killings only seem to make it to the front page if the country involved is in either North America or Europe. 60 shot in Vegas makes it to the front page. Hundreds killed in some African, Asian, or South American country and not a peep.

Problem seems to be a bias against those who lack the ability to pay for adverts. If you don't spend money with their advertisers you are obviously not worthy of their reporting.

The_Doc_Man · Oct 26, 2017

To be honest with you, Mark, there is probably more than a minimal "out of sight, out of mind" attitude for mass killings in Africa and just about anywhere on the Asian continent. We KNOW that the Middle East is in turmoil and the insurgents commit atrocities. After a while, we have to step away because it is becoming commonplace in those areas.

I certainly cannot be said to have the pulse of the USA. I'm arrogant sometimes but that level of arrogance is beyond me. I can only report what I see. And what I see is a growing sense of USA citizens heading towards the attitude of "if they want freedom, let them earn it by themselves just like we earned our freedoms." (Forgetting, of course, that the French Navy assisted in blockading British supplies and reinforcements, and that Hessian mercenaries assisted in the battle as well.)

ColinEssex · Nov 3, 2017

Actually, thinking about it, if you can dodge the flying bullets, it must be great living in the USA.

Whenever you drive to town to go to an office or shopping, there is always a big parking space outside the very shop or office you're visiting, no need to lock the car, leave the windows down, nothing untoward will happen.

Fancy a coffee?, all top ups are free and never ending in the railway carriage diner served by a girl in a cute white cap and roller skates.

A tram?, just hop on and hang on the outside and get a free ride, no need to pay. Going by train? Get one of the empty box car things that shuffle round not carrying anything, hop on and off again for free.

I'm sure there are many more benefits.

Col

AccessBlaster · Nov 3, 2017

ColinEssex said:
...diner served by a girl in a cute white cap and roller skates.
I'm sure there are many more benefits.
Col

I know what you mean Col, it can be rough living here. Need a burger and a beer? 5 minutes away from my house.

ColinEssex · Nov 5, 2017

Very good AB, they don't wear that at our local McDonald's.

Another brilliant thing about the USA is the postal service.
According to Elvis, you can give a letter to a postman, he then rushes off and delivers it the same day, the recipient (in this case) needs to return it, so returns it to the sender and it arrives back early next morning. Plus he had no extra postage to pay. Isn't that fab?

In the UK, it can take 3 days for a first class letter just to get to the destination let alone being returned.

Another brilliant thing is that phone numbers are dead easy to remember, they all start "555......."

Col

The_Doc_Man · Nov 5, 2017

Ah, yes... the infamous "555" exchange. For those not familiar with it, that number NEVER appears as a real phone number - with maybe an exception or two. Hollywood uses the 555 exchange with any area code because nobody can call that number. It almost never exists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_(telephone_number)

AccessBlaster · Nov 5, 2017

It was only a matter of time before the rest of the world caught on that America is one large sound stage. We are all actors, some better than others.

The Obama's will receive life long Oscars, while the Orange one will receive rotten tomato's. Bernie, well he will receive the honorary patsy award.

ColinEssex · Nov 6, 2017

Yawn. Another 26 shot to death in a Texas church today.

It didn't feature as first item on BBC news. Too common, too routine, too boring. And who cares anyway? Not Americans that's for sure.

Col

The_Doc_Man · Nov 6, 2017

Col, we care. But sometimes we don't cry in public. Too many emotion-pandering journalists out there for us to wear our hearts on our sleeves.

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