Is it worth working? (1 Viewer)

Steve R.

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Strange post, can you indicate where I have said those claims you have made against me please? For example, where did I say you are evil because you mentioned ethnicity? Please try to keep within the facts and not make up comments to suit your weak argument.

Also, what woman and kids? You have lost me there.
Frothingslosh claims to want an intelligent discussion. Yet his responses preclude any intelligent conversation since Frothingslosh misquotes what others state, are full of derogatory responses, and belittle those who Frothingslosh does not agree with (as seen below). Frothingslosh seems to believe that his truth is the only truth and that those who disagree with him are simply morons. Obvioulsy Frothingslosh is not interested in an intelligent conversation.

It's rather amusing that our resident troll thinks I suddenly did a complete 180 after all the grief I've given our resident fascists about their beliefs that Muslims are pure evil and must either be barred from the US (SteveR) or exterminated (Murderboy). I'm going to write it up as him desperately, pathetically, attempting to troll me, as that seems to be his only goal in life these days. *shrug*
 

ColinEssex

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Thanks for your both eloquent and accurate post Steve.

I have noticed that Frothy makes up things he or she thinks people say in the past, mainly to old Blade and his beliefs, but also to me.
He calls me a troll, but I think he is little better. However, now I know for sure he does it, his posts, as far as I'm concerned can mostly be taken with a pinch of salt.

I really must try not to be drawn into the trolls posts as it gets my good name tarnished along with his / hers.

Col
 

WayneRyan

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Colin hijacked his own thread ???
 

Alc

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Also, what woman and kids? You have lost me there.
This was the original post. You chose to focus on the bit about the Middle-Eastern guys but the first four sentences in the paragraph were about the woman and her kids.
A couple minutes later, a woman in her 20's showed up with two little girls. Again, they looked to be at least in extreme poverty, if not homeless themselves. (In fact, the woman was one of the regulars who are often at the nearby intersection with signs asking for anything people will give.) The woman asked if anyone would be willing to give them anything, while the girls were crying about being so hungry. The guy behind the counter said he'd have to check with his boss on that one. The two young female customers in fuzzy rabbit suits (I didn't ask) just started whispering to each other, looking at the three, and laughing. The two Middle-Eastern guys to my right focused on their music, and the two other white folks in there with us moved as far away from the trio as they possibly could.
 

ColinEssex

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Any system will ALWAYS have people scamming it. The basic nature of humanity is to be a greedy asshole.

That doesn't mean you let them rot because That One Dude isn't actually homeless.

And honestly, even the beggars who aren't homeless and are just doing it because it's a low-effort way to get enough money to get by (although I'd hate to see the hourly breakdown in most cases) are being more honest about it than some of the lazy leeches I've worked with before. :p To be quite honest, either the folks I told about really needed the lunch I bought them or they didn't. If the first, then I was happy to help. If I didn't, then I still made someone's day a little better. It's not like the cost of an extra pizza and 2-liter would break me, and if they weren't actually hungry, then based on their tears and thanks when I did that, they need an agent in Hollywood STAT.

Also, remember, this is Flint, and they were begging in a run-down, moderate crime area I travel through every day. They do NOT make a lot of money. From what I've seen, they'd be lucky to make more than $20 in any given day.

I guess the reason homelessness and poverty bother me like they do is because I grew up in a poverty-stricken family in the middle of an affluent neighborhood. . . . . . .(My father did NOT choose to have his highly successful store stolen by his partner at gunpoint, nor did he choose to have the restaurant he opened afterward go under because of a multiple-year tourism crash. In 1975, his personal income was almost a half million per year thanks to owning a supermarket. In 1978, he was a security guard making minimum wage.) Hell, I've even been homeless myself on two different occasion.

Seems to me that he forgot the basic rule of business / life - Never trust anyone especially a so called partner. So what happened to the half million a year?

We've all had it tough, I remember the bus taking us kids to school once broke down and we had to walk about half a mile to school in the rain, got soaked and had to sit in wet clothes for the day.

Also, living in London in a flat in the 60's, I didn't have enough money for food and fags, so naturally I got 20 Rothmans and went hungry till payday. Maybe I should have taken to the streets begging looking back on it.


Col
 

ColinEssex

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This was the original post. You chose to focus on the bit about the Middle-Eastern guys but the first four sentences in the paragraph were about the woman and her kids.

Yes thanks, I spotted it just after I posted that. It must have been the shock at FrothyWhatshisname's racial differential that took precedence.

Col
 

Katiecat29

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I personally would be bored out of mind if I didn't have a job, so ask yourself who is more fulfilled?
 

The_Doc_Man

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Katiecat, I hear you - but my dear old Uncle M. used to tell me that the problem isn't that you have a job - because you can still be bored sh*tless in it. The REAL question is whether you like what you are doing.

I am reminded of that absolutely marvelous old movie, The Bridge on the River Kwai, in which the young Canadian officer's job before the war was that he manually added up columns of figures (in context, numbers like a spreadsheet) to verify the addition, and he was neither the first nor the last figures-checker in the process. Obviously in a time before spreadsheets and before commercial institutions had computers, this was a legitimate job, but how long do you think it would take you before you got bored to tears doing it? I could EASILY see why the young man volunteered for service where he could get shot at.

The question is always ... not "Are you employed?" but "Do you enjoy what you do?" If the former answer is yes but the latter answer is no, it is time to find something else as quickly as possible.
 

Rabbie

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Doc, as usual you havegot it right:). As a retired pensioner I can't tick the employed box (except for all the work I do assisting Mrs Rabbie in her business) but I do enjoy my life. Currently on a ski-ing holiday in Bulgaria 27 years after my last skiing trip. Surprisingly it has all come back with the only problem being picking myself up after the occasional fall.
 

Frothingslosh

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Stop drinking the brown water..:banghead: jk

Heh. Technically, I live in Swartz Creek, which is the next municipality west of Flint. It's a little bit better neighborhood (not that that's saying much), but more importantly, is NOT on Flint city water.

I don't know which part about that I like best - the Freedom of Information Act releases that are 100% redacted, the leaked emails where Snyder and his cronies mock people for daring to complain about toxic waste coming from the taps, or the mounting evidence that not only was this actually planned years before it was publicly discussed, but that they knew even then that there were going to be health issues. Or, thinking about it, that it was done to save $5 million over a few years...and is going to take a minimum of $1.5 BILLION to fix.
 

Frothingslosh

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Oh, and the guy who made that god-awful decision?

Currently the emergency manager of Detroit Public Schools, who just lost in court after attempting to bar students from any form of protest over his actions. As just one example, the kids are a little annoyed that rather than purchase sufficient schoolbooks, the new policy for the district is that kids are to photograph the pages of the class's ONE BOOK for assignments and homework and then work off the photos at home.
 

The_Doc_Man

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Frothingslosh... are you SERIOUS? The guy wants to photograph pages of a BOOK rather than buy it? It is no surprise that he lost in court. I'm just waiting for the publishing company to SUE his sorry butt for copyright infringement. This is FAR more than a simple violation of the "Fair Use" doctrine. To make it a district policy? That opens them up to charges of conspiracy to commit fraud by copyright piracy.

I know that we in Louisiana have bad politicians but this? We are looking at one of the most Draconian rounds of budget issues this state has ever seen. I am SO glad that Bobby Jindal dropped out of the presidential race. If he HAD made it in, he would have totally bankrupted the Federal government. But this Detroit Public Schools manager has probably violated federal law AND the school district's book purchasing contracts at the same time. And he was the guy who made the Flint plumbing decisions? I can imagine ten layers of lawyers circling this guy hoping for a bite of his sorry arse.
 

AccessBlaster

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In California we have "Williams v. California:" (August 2004,)

http://justschools.gseis.ucla.edu/news/williams/teacher/index.html


• Every student, including English Learners, must have textbooks and materials
to use in class and to take home.
• Every school and classroom must be clean, safe, and in good condition.
• Every child must have a well-trained teacher.
• The new standards for school conditions must be posted in every classroom.
• Officials will investigate conditions annually and report the results to the public.
• A complaint procedure will allow teachers, parents and other community
members to voice their concerns
We Still have kids sharing books, but its a good start. BTW textbooks are quickly becoming a relic of the past much like 8 tracks tapes. Kids prefer digital LCD screens such as iPADs or Chromebooks. The curriculum will be preloaded on a lightweight device and be checked out like a library book.
 

Libre

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I've spent my working life at a job that has been marginally rewarding but for the most part, it's been a tedious bore.
It's been a distraction from my actual calling in life - music.
I've had to deal with - and answer to - bosses/supervisors/managers who could not think their way out of a paper bag.
Many times I simply devised my own solutions (in some cases, Access databases) covertly. I've been working this way for my entire professional life. I've never gotten along with a boss - yet, they tend to keep me despite the friction. That's because I bring something to the job that they ultimately value despite the fact that I irritate them. I don't give way easily (as you know if you've read my posts) but show me where I'm wrong and I'll change my position on a dime.

I haven't hated every minute of it and at times it's been almost exhilarating. For the most part, though, it's been just a job. As a young man, I trained myself as a classical guitarist before I found out that there is no paying job in the field. So then I trained myself as a mechanical designer and went to work. It did not fulfill my calling as a musician so I went into Central Park and I've been playing there on weekends for 25 years. On Monday I would return to my dreary desk, thoughts of the weekend in the park dancing in my head. I also delved into the game of golf - and on weekends when I was not plucking the guitar for tips, I was putting for bogey (or worse) on the public links.

I would have to say that to find a career that one fully enjoys (at least enough to want to do, regardless of the need for income), is incredibly rare. I don't say it is impossible, but it is sure hard to come by.
My theory (or hypothesis, before Galaxion or Frothingslosh jump in to tell me it's not technically a "theory") is that, by virtue of the fact that one MUST show up, and one MUST execute their duties in some prescribed way and at some prescribed rate, and one must repeat executing said tasks relentlessly, day after day ad infinitum - that one grows resentful of the task no matter how agreeable it might be under different circumstances.
So, despite the age-old sentiment that you will never work a day in your life if you love what you do - most people including myself do not find such an ideallic situation and have to content ourselves with grinding out a day of work, day after day, and getting in a little R & R where we can.
And that's had to be enough. I don't think that anyone can be happy and content all the time - I don't care what your job is.

And that brings me to the present day.
After decade upon decade of grinding out a day of work, one day at a time - I'm finally in a position to retire.
I'll be like Rabbie - a pensioner!!!!
I only have 11 more weeks to go!!!
April 14 - that's my 65th birthday, AND my 8th anniversary at this job, AND my retirement day!!!
After that you'll find me on the golf links or playing Bach, Scarlatti, Tarrega and Albeniz on a Park bench in Central Part, NYC, USA!
Me, a pensioner.
And the best part of it is, I'm in perfect health (knock on wood), and plan to outlive all those dim witted managers that I had to suck up to all these years.
I'm finally free of the obligation to earn a living. I could walk out the door right now and not return, if I so decided.

A bit of worthless advice:

Keep at it, you young-uns. You can get here too! Just save your nickles and dimes, and keep saying YES SIR to the bozo(s) you're working for.

Don't invest in risky schemes - they will not get you to financial independence - they will keep you from it. There's no quick way to get rich other than a lightning strike lottery windfall or something like that.

Watch out for office sneaks and snoops. Whatever you say about someone will eventually reach the ear of the person you're speaking of - rest assured. I absolutely guarantee it. So be diplomatic if possible. If you say compromising things you will be on the defensive when it gets thrown back at you. It is also advisable to avoid excessive praise for anyone as well. This one is a little harder to explain - just trust me.

Related tip:
Don't put anything compromising in an email. If it's verbal you can always deny you said it - or that it was misunderstood, taken out of context, etc etc. But if it's in writing, your goose is cooked. The Enron execs and the Bridgegate fall guys learned that the hard way.
 
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The_Doc_Man

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Libre, I'm TRULY sorry that you never found something to help you enjoy your work. However, I didn't completely disclose my uncle's advice. What he REALLY said to me was, "You are an intelligent person. First decide what you like to do. Then use your brain to figure out how to make a living at it." If you look for your ideal job, it won't exist most of the time, and there we agree, Libre. However, if you look for your ideal topic and THEN try to find a reasonable job, you will be better off.

I guess I was lucky in a way, but what happened with me was that I discovered that in college, I spoke two "languages" - the language of computer solutions to problems, and the language of real-world problems independent of computer applications. In essence, my career has been that of the "problem solver" who can analyze a problem and devise a computer solution (or determine that one is not appropriate). Like you, Libre, I have learned to use the computer to do some of my work for me. (I actually give credit to Dr. Don Kern, a Physical Chemist/Thermodynamicist, for teaching me that trick.) My machines at work have scripts to e-mail me when they need attention and to report daily summary information for whatever they are doing.

Heck, my current and previous major Access apps were done as departmental projects because our contract allows us to make our own tools when commercial tools aren't available to do what we need to do. So like you, I have had to develop a couple of little databases "on the side" - and it was what I learned while serving necessity that I was able to share on this forum. Trust me, there are things I don't know about Office, but I have learned ENTIRELY too much about the innards of that product - a LOT more than I ever really wanted to know.

I'm glad you get to show your musical talents when you want to. For me, it is harder to do my thing in public because my "axe" is a Technics F5 Console Organ (2x61 keys, 25 pedal notes, and yes, I play them all at one point or another.) It isn't very portable unless I want to load it on a drop-side truck and bring a fairly quiet generator with me. I am Liturgically trained but I also do theater organ, Broadway show tunes, ballads, and some soft-to-medium rock-n-roll stuff, so I have maintained at least some versatility.

As to retirement, I'm a few months away from that myself. Unfortunately, in my case there is a health issue that prevents me from knocking on that same bit of wood that you referenced, Libre. But I will still have time to play with the #2 grandson for a while. (And to play some games with #1 grandson. He likes "Magic: The Gathering" so I learned it to have some time with him.)

I'll add some worthless advice to your worthless advice, my friend Libre.

Remember, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, but you have actually GO there to find out how deeply you sink into the fertilizer layer when you step in it. And step in it, you will. The trick is not to find a job where things are so rich that you don't need the fertilizer. THAT job just flat-out don't exist nowhere notime nohow. But if you have some choices, you can try to pick the lesser of however many evils you can see.

Often, if you take a long viewpoint, you end up outlasting the true idiots - and besides that, you might get the chance to clean up their messes and endear yourself to their successors or their bosses. That's how I've managed 28 years of government contractor service in the D.o.D. without going berserk. The silent "I told you so" isn't as good as the more public version, but it can still be satisfying.
 

Frothingslosh

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Libre, as long as it's not a scientific discussion, using the colloquial 'theory' is perfectly valid.

We jump folks who use the colloquial in scientific discussions because in a scientific setting, 'theory' has a very different definition. :p

Now back to reading your post. :)
 

Libre

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Libre, I'm TRULY sorry that you never found something to help you enjoy your work.

Well, let me clarify.
There were things that I clasped on to, to get me through.
The first was mechanical drawing.
That was what appealed to me about the career in the first place.
I always enjoyed drawing - but I don't have much talent in that direction. Also I like complex looking inventions, technical things, etc.
I found that in mechanical drawing, I could do really cool drawings WITHOUT the requisite artistic talent because I was using drawing instruments. I excelled at it right away.

But then it got boring after a few years and a few years after that it became a rarity - computer drafting was taking hold all over. And I did not dig working on CAD systems - it lacked the craftsmanship of a manual drawing. So I grew out of it and became a design supervisor.

In that capacity, I got very excited about a new way of dimensioning - a technology called GD&T.
That is the second thing that got me through.
The acronym stands for Geometric Dimensioning and Tolerancing. Maybe some of you are familiar with the standard. I recognized its incredible power right off and made myself into a GD&T guru. That held me for a long time as I was working in aerospace/defense and the standard is widely applied in that industry.

But when I changed jobs and migrated to the diamond and jewelry industry my GD&T expertise was no longer relevant.

That's when I really got into Access. I designed the jewelry company's software in Access. Took me a few years but by then I went Access crazy. Any function I could think of, I found a way to do it in Access.

I migrated back to mechanical design after the jewelry company, but it was in window shades instead of missile launchers. No mechanical drawing, very little GD&T, but a lot of time to play with Access. They saw I was good at it and mostly left me alone. That's gotten me to this point.

But you see, I gravitate towards rather esoteric specialties - classical guitar, mechanical drawing, GD&T, Access. I am driven to excel at things that most people have only a nodding acquaintance with, if that.

Without those things I don't know how I would have survived. As it is I dream most of the day away anyhow. Dreaming of retirement, of playing music and golf, not getting up early, not having to be anywhere.

Yes the grass is always greener but as you pointed out, if you never go over the fence you just never know what the grass there is really like. And I don't much like fences anyway.

As to retirement, I'm a few months away from that myself. Unfortunately, in my case there is a health issue that prevents me from knocking on that same bit of wood that you referenced, Libre.

Well, I hope that improves for you, and I should add that my own bit of wood has a few notches in it as well, and in fact a few pretty big chunks missing - but still I feel good (for my age) and I'm not getting out the rocking chair just yet.

Frothingslosh said:
Libre, as long as it's not a scientific discussion, using the colloquial 'theory' is perfectly valid.

We jump folks who use the colloquial in scientific discussions because in a scientific setting, 'theory' has a very different definition.


Now back to reading your post.
Okay then - glad I didn't run afoul of the nerd's code then. Thanks, and read on!
 

Frothingslosh

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Okay then - glad I didn't run afoul of the nerd's code then. Thanks, and read on!

Scientist's code, perhaps, but not nerd's code. I don't recall any Star Wars geeks worked up about folks' theories about Kylo Ren and Rey being called theories. Same with all the other types of geekery out there. Wars over whether or not they agree, sure, but not over what a 'theory' is.

'Theory' has a very specific, well-defined meaning in regards to the scientific method that doesn't match the meaning as used colloquially, that's all. It would be like someone telling you that a key is an instructional guide to tell you what the different symbols stand for on your sheet music, because that's what a key is on a map, and then insisting that you're wrong when you explain what a key really is in music.
 

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