Disrespect in Politics (1 Viewer)

Uncle Gizmo · Jul 14, 2018

On Facebook today someone was complaining about the London mayor supposedly supporting the trump blimp... In particular they mentioned how disrespectful it was.

It is the nature of political parties to oppose each other. But is it right that they should be disrespectful to each other? - It is right and proper to hold opposing views, but is it right and proper to be disrespectful in your discussions and interactions?

Gasman · Jul 14, 2018

I would say No, as it becomes tit for tat.

It always makes me laugh when someone says 'The Honourable' when slagging off an MP.
Then again when they are in their subsided bar, I expect they are the best of friends?

I am not saying that in any two faced way. When i was in the Merchant Navy, one might not get along with another officer, but you always treated them respectfully in the bar, and still bought them a beer if in the round.

That would still not stop me smacking them one though

, but the next time i would still buy them that beer. Just one of those things.

NauticalGent · Jul 14, 2018

Not quite sure what the story is here, but in the US, the political parties along with the media are very adept at pitting its citizens against each other. Why? Becuase it take the focus off the real issue which is how bad they are spewing us and keeps us fighting each other.

Can you imagine how formidable a team Doc and Frothy would make if they were to quit arguing with each other and went after the real culprits? I know it would keep me awake at night and I’m ‘purt near fearless!

isladogs · Jul 14, 2018

Trump's modus operandi appears to be to disrespect / insult all his supposed allies and then claim he has an excellent relationship with them.

By comparison those who are or act like dictators get praised e.g. Putin, Xi and these days also Kim Jong-Un

He reserves particular rudeness for female leaders e.g. Angela Merkel & for muslim leaders e.g. Sadiq Khan. I could hardly blame Sadiq Khan if he did respond in kind but in my view allowing the blimp to fly wasn't approving it as such. In fact, I think this is missing the point here.

Whilst Trump goes out of his way to pick a fight, he is very thin skinned and hates anyone mocking his appearance (hair/small hands etc) or behaviour (toddler tantrums). He doesn't listen to reasoned arguments but does respond to perceived slights. He would have loved it if there had been violent demos. Instead he got large numbers of peaceful protestors, many with extremely witty placards and a blimp which was deliberately designed to mock him.

I very much wish Trump had not been invited as it seems to condone his often appalling behaviour. I loathe the current government and have no time for the current PM. However, in the past couple of days I felt sorry for Theresa May in having to greet Trump as a friend to the UK when his actions were deliberately done to undermine both her and this country

AccessBlaster · Jul 15, 2018

The EU is so use to the door mat style President who comes to Europe like a rock star on an apology tour. This President left his knee pads at home, and frankly its a little refreshing.

ColinEssex · Jul 15, 2018

The slob Trump was disrespectful to the Queen (God bless her). The ignorant American stood in front of her forcing her to move, he also ignored her instructions as to where to stand for photos.

There is more about the ignoramous but I'll probably be accused of some heinous crime by AB.

Col

jdraw · Jul 15, 2018

In response to Tony's post (#1) - I watched an interview with Sadiq Khan by Christiane Amanpour (youtube). He was totally a statesman. He was strong on principle --as long as there is no lawbreaking -- freedom of speech, assembly, religion is a right to be encouraged. He repeated the fundamentals of democracy and the right to peaceful protest.
I did not see him make any disparaging nor personal remarks re Trump. I saw no disrespect.

I don't know how he is accepted/approved by Londoners nor UK citizens at large, but to me he was so different than DJT it was memorable.

AccessBlaster · Jul 15, 2018

Col, no heinous crime. The world agrees with you.

Vassago · Jul 16, 2018

Trump is completely oblivious to his own selfishness. I'm pretty convinced of that. The way he treated the Queen and his responses with Putin shine his own arrogance and brush off of what anyone else thinks or feels. It's one thing to show confidence, but if you lack humility, you are not Presidential.

The_Doc_Man · Jul 16, 2018

Calling someone "the honorable" while lambasting him/her in public is just chivalry in action.

You DO know Robert A Heinlein's definition of chivalry, don't you?

It is when you sing the praises of your opponent as you skewer his guts in public.

Mark_ · Jul 17, 2018

Oddly, I think half of what DJT does is based on his way of negotiations. Very unlike what most are used to for politics, but some business leaders are very familiar with the technique. He also seems very able to stir up "the masses" about rather trivial issues to avoid the media paying attention to important issues.

ColinEssex highlighted this unique trait; his post is not about trade issues or DJT's insistence that NATO members spend more on defense, his post is about an apparent slight to the Queen. He has played into DJT's hands (small or not) and paid little interest in what will have the largest impact on the UK.

In all, trying to measure his actions against more conventional politicians is pointless. He does not act like a politician. Measure his actions against CEOs and owners of large companies.

This is also why the media has such a low opinion of him. They can't understand what he is doing or why, so they do their best to not seem ignorant by portraying him as badly as possible.

As to the current trade issues, I'm personally betting he's all talk on most issues and won't actually get involved in a serious trade war. Tariffs and taxes are all bargaining chips to renegotiate trade deals. His only real opposition to these moves seems to be groups unable to unite behind any common cause as each is getting more upset over its own petty insults than any common identity.

AccessBlaster · Jul 17, 2018

Rope-A-Dope classic Ali vs Foreman.

Steve R. · Jul 17, 2018

It seems that any faux pas, no matter how inconsequential, by Trump is disingenuously misconstrued into a negative interpretation and blown out of proportion to the extreme. Conversely, when Trump is vilified and treated with disrespect, there is little (if any) demand that those making disrespectful comments apologize for them. (Note the lack of any comments pointing a finger of blame at the Mayor of London for inciting disrespect.)

The_Doc_Man · Jul 17, 2018

Mark_ said:
In all, trying to measure his actions against more conventional politicians is pointless. He does not act like a politician. Measure his actions against CEOs and owners of large companies.

Great observation, Mark! But then again, he was elected precisely because he was not a "government as usual" candidate. And like him or hate him, your point is spot-on. He is not a member of the Washington Elite. He actually looks at the business value of something first and considers politics second (or so it seems to me.)

Mark_ · Jul 17, 2018

Thank you Doc. I keep seeing posts like what ColinEssex put up. The more I see them the more I realize that, intentionally or not, he is supporting Trump.

What's that old saying? Any publicity, even bad publicity, is better than no publicity? And with posts like "The slob Trump was disrespectful to the Queen (God bless her)." I can't help but notice that TRUMP still came first. It also plays to anyone who thinks the people in the U.K. should take a page from their relatives across the pond and dump the monarchy.

I was listening to the news this morning. A former CIA director seems to think that Trump committed treason because he didn't berate the president of Russia and make threats about "Election tampering". Not much of a "Loyal opposition" if it is advocating pissing off another nation.

Vassago · Jul 17, 2018

The_Doc_Man said:
Calling someone "the honorable" while lambasting him/her in public is just chivalry in action.

You DO know Robert A Heinlein's definition of chivalry, don't you?

It is when you sing the praises of your opponent as you skewer his guts in public.

Since when is the Queen an opponent of Trump or America? I think that is the problem.

Frothingslosh · Jul 17, 2018

Mark_ said:
I was listening to the news this morning. A former CIA director seems to think that Trump committed treason because he didn't berate the president of Russia and make threats about "Election tampering". Not much of a "Loyal opposition" if it is advocating pissing off another nation.

Actually, if you had bothered to actually read what he said, the treason accusation was because:

Trump explicitly and publicly derided the findings of every intelligence agency in the US - all of which are headed by Trump appointees - in favor of conspiracy theories and Putin's denial that he did any such thing.
Trump threw the entire DOJ and the Mueller investigation (overseen by another Trump appointee and run by a life-long Republican) under the bus and instead brought up assorted anti-Clinton conspiracy theories.
Trump flat-out refused to confront (or even CHIDE) Putin for Russia's invasions of the Ukraine and Crimea.
Trump agreed that the idea of Russian oversight of US intelligence investigations into Russian actions was a simply wonderful idea.

Basically, he is saying that those constitute 'Aid and comfort' to a demonstrably hostile power.

And even if you insist he's dramatically overreacting because he's not a conservative, how about these?

John McCain said:
The damage inflicted by President Trump’s naiveté, egotism, false equivalence, and sympathy for autocrats is difficult to calculate.
...
These were the deliberate choices of a president who seems determined to realize his delusions of a warm relationship with Putin’s regime without any regard for the true nature of his rule, his violent disregard for the sovereignty of his neighbors, his complicity in the slaughter of the Syrian people, his violation of international treaties, and his assault on democratic institutions throughout the world.
...
No prior president has ever abased himself more abjectly before a tyrant. Not only did President Trump fail to speak the truth about an adversary; but speaking for America to the world, our president failed to defend all that makes us who we are—a republic of free people dedicated to the cause of liberty at home and abroad.

Jeff Flake said:
I never thought I would see the day when our American President would stand on the stage with the Russian President and place blame on the United States for Russian aggression. This is shameful.

Abby Houseman said:
No negotiation is worth throwing your own people and country under the bus.

Joe Walsh said:
I am a tea party conservative, that will never change. But Trump was a traitor to this country today. That must not be accepted.

Shepard Smith said:
Shameful, disgraceful, treasonous: Three of the descriptions of what President Donald Trump did today in Helsinki. Asked whether he believes American intelligence or the Russian thug standing next to him, President Trump declined to stand up for his own people and instead embraced Vladimir Putin.

Even Neil Cavuto called it disgraceful on his show. (http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/07/...russia-putin-summit-and-election-interference)

So are they all ALSO calling him a traitor just because he didn't try to start a war?

Frothingslosh · Jul 17, 2018

Also, that conference featured one of the most idiotic questions I've ever heard a reporter ask in a major press conference when someone asked Putin if he had any compromising material on Trump, and if so, how he acquired it.

Whether it exists or not, only a moron would think Putin would answer in the affirmative.

Mark_ · Jul 17, 2018

Frothingslosh,

Just so you know, its isn't easy to read something when you are listening to the radio driving. I could only go by what the reporter reported on the radio.

Frothingslosh · Jul 17, 2018

Yes, and I was pointing out that instead of going by what Hannity or Jones or whoever said on the radio, you should, perhaps, have gone to find Brennan's actual comment.

Hell, every time a left-wing source quotes a conservative in order to rant about what a terrible idea they're spouting, I made damned sure to go look up the actual source before I start commenting on it. I guess I expect others to do the same.

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