9/80 work Schedule database (1 Viewer)

My brother in law has a timesheet issue that I am hoping to help him with using msAccess. I am having trouble thinking through the structure so I thought maybe I could type it out here and see if anyone has any ideas.

Each employee works three 12 hour days the first week and one 8 hour day. The way the overtime laws work the employee will split the last day of the first week into 2 parts of 4 hrs each. The second week they work three 12 hour days (plus the 4 hours from the previous works gets added to week 2)

Hope that makes since, i'll try to show example below:
Week 1
Mon Tue Wed Thur
12 12 12 8
Week 2
Mon Tue Wed
12 12 12

4 of the hours on the Thursday will go into Week 2s payroll so neither week is over 40 hours and they won't have to pay overtime.
In case you want to help with issue 2, if there is overtime on the split day (Thursday above), then it depends on the employees start time whether it goes on week 1 or week 2. Each employee group could start at 8am, 12am, 4pm or 8pm. If the employee starts in the 8pm slot his overtime would go to the next week.

Does this make since?

I'm really struggling to figure out how to share a day of data into two different weeks.

This is a matter of "reporting resolution" in that you have 80 hours per two weeks so (apparently) can get away with the overtime issue. Though it should be noted that in the USA in MOST states, that 12-hour day is already technically eligible overtime. But there are all sorts of crazy exceptions so I guess you might be one of them.

If your question is, "How do I test for overtime?" then the answer is "Add up hours for two consecutive weeks and compare against 80." You might want to consider having a list of "hours worked" as you noted but with DATE rather than weekday. Then the query in question might involve taking a sum of hours worked for a period defined similarly to

"SELECT Employee, SUM(HoursWorked), etc FROM HoursTable WHERE DateWorked BETWEEN TargetDate AND TargetDate - 13 GROUP BY Employee; "

Something similar to that. Then you don't CARE whether the hours went into one week or the other or both.

Now, if that isn't what you meant by your question but were considering something else, you need to be more specific.

My concern is similar to Doc's. I am not familiar with the FLSA regulations so I don't know if this will pass their smell test. I would be especially worried if you are dealing with union employees. Before trying to implement this, I would get some kind of written permission with the labor board to ensure that this is not going to come back and bite you. What I think is fair and logical frequently bears no resemblance to what I read in the law.

I would probably try to bind two weeks together so that four of the hours from the first thursday can be placed into the second thursday.

Thanks guys, I will pass on your concern to my brother in law.

In my country I don't think it will be allowed, or it will at least be in a gray zone.

The key is the "resolution period" for the overtime tests. I worked for a small, disadvantaged (i.e. minority-owned) business (therefore USA's U.S. Code Title 8a applied) where I was hourly but the schedules were flex-approved. Which meant that as long as I kept my hours in the two-week pay period at 80, it was legal. I could leave early one day for a medical visit and make it up as long as I did so within the same pay period. But there WAS a restriction on hours per day anyway.

Kolsby, my advice to you is to scrupulously verify the rules that apply to these employees before trying to implement your overtime tests. When you are absolutely certain, come back with a VERBAL description of the rules. I will add that depending on exactly how the employee is classified under FLSA and NLRB rules, this IS still possible. It just requires special cases to be applied. Also, each state has a labor board or equivalent and they ALSO will impose some rules.

If we seem to be balking at helping you, it is only because in our (varied) experiences, there are SO many rules out there that sometimes it takes a labor lawyer to decipher them. We would rather give you advice that is consistent with the applicable rules.

I checked the laws in Michigan, and the OT baseline is 80 hours over two weeks OR 8 hours in one day. That last part is never, ever enforced, however.

Keep in mind that IANAL and it's written in legalese, but the baseline is 80/8. It's the exceptions that get hard to decipher.

I used to work in a place that did 4 ten hour shifts for the night shift, using this pattern over each 2 months in order to keep two separate night shift crews going in the 24 hour call center:

Weeks 1-3: Thurs night, Fri night, Sat night, Sun night
Week 4: Thurs night, Fri night, Sat night, Sun night, Mon night, Tues night, Wed night
Weeks 5-7: Sun MORNING (6 am), Mon night, Tues night, Wed night
Week 8: Sun Morning

Pay weeks actually started on Saturday, so it worked out to 6 weeks at 40 hours, one week at 50 hours, and one week at 30 hours. The company refused (and probably still refuses) to pay over 40 hours for the 50 hour week by claiming that it's balanced by paying the employees 40 hours for the 30 hour week.

It's shady AF, but I don't believe they've ever been reported (and they're a multi-billion per year inventory company) because they also pay well. Good raises each year and beaucoup overtime in January and Feb. (I racked up 100+ hour weeks regularly each January.)

Louisiana labor law defers to FLSA regarding overtime. Here is a link to FLSA that includes a discussion of overtime. From the stuff I am reading, the 12-hour day is acceptable as long as the employee is considered an adult. However, the FLSA seems to be saying that resolution has to occur on a 40-hour-week basis.

https://www.employmentlawhandbook.com/federal-employment-and-labor-laws/flsa/

I read this yesterday and thought it sounding a bit suspect, I have to be honest and say it sounds like a firms trying to find a way around paying a bit of overtime or maybe they need to rethink their working hours.

I didn't realise that this issue is such an issue. I can only speak on behalf of the industry I work in (Australia) but surely Flexi-time is not unique to Australia. The industry I work in, if extra hours are to be worked, a supervisor authorises the hours, asking the question, do you want the money or time in lieu? From a flexi-time point of view, that's time-in-lieu and hours roll over to the following week(s).

Yep, I know, I didn't really add anything of value to this thread.

Hours rolling over isn't generally allowed here because companies have a history of abusing the hell out of it. Basically, you need to pay overtime however states determine it. Some also allow comp time - extra PTO in lieu of pay - but I'd be surprised if ALL states do. (Personally I feel it was created simply as a way of letting companies get out of having to pay time and a half.) Additionally, a lot of the time, you have no choice - if a company gives comp time, then that's often ALL they will give you, and a lot of companies let you keep racking it up but take pains to ensure you can never USE it. There's a reason that in Michigan, it's limited to 130 hours per year.

So yeah, companies have a long and storied history of trying to get free work out of people, and as a result, even the most employer-favoring states tend to come down on companies avoiding paying OT like the wrath of God. Most of the time.