Is Capitalism better than Socialism? (1 Viewer)

Lightwave

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I don't see how being the victim of cancer or the victim of crime are that different

errr.... They are when it comes to cost!

Local and federal spend on health care in 2013 was in the region of $ 880 billion

Combined spend on
Fire protection
Police
Law Courts and Prisons

was in the region of $60 billion

Governments would take the easy option and give everyone everything if they could that's why they are so dangerous with their self appointed credit lines on which they choose their own limits.

Figure source
 
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AnthonyGerrard

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Galaxiom, I'm confused by your posts 6 & 9, as they seem to contradict each other. Isn't progressively higher taxation "from each according to his ability"? You seem to be against it in 6 but for it in 9.

In my view, and in general terms, capitalism respects individual rights, socialism does not.

I'm not sure capitalism repects responsibilities, neither do too many who argue for socialism. ie they know their rights, and ignore their responsibilites to help in creating teh environment where rights can flourish. Similar to Galaxioms "spiritualist" guy.
 

Fifty2One

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Indeed: foolhardy to pay for the things everyone else is getting for free...

Good - in that case I can cancel my recurring PayPal subscription.
 

Steve R.

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I'm not sure capitalism repects responsibilities, neither do too many who argue for socialism. ie they know their rights, and ignore their responsibilites to help in creating teh environment where rights can flourish. Similar to Galaxioms "spiritualist" guy.
Very good point.

From the capitalistic perspective: if a company pollutes the environment, the typical attitude is "not by problem".

From the socialist perspective: if a voter won't be responsible enough to register to vote, demands are placed on the State to make it a State responsibility to facilitate that person's registration.
 

daievans

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Indeed: foolhardy to pay for the things everyone else is getting for free...


Somewhere in there is the Capitalism v Socialism battle.

Anyhow, I felt that I was getting value from the forum and was happy to contribute - it seemed to me the correct thing to do.
 

RainLover

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I believe it is.

Why should I pay for the upkeep of a fire truck I will never need or a bridge I will never cross.

From Post # 10.

Why is it that you guys like to gang up and bully the man rather than discuss the comment.

The original comment that I heard and in turn posted here was from an American, Morman. (I don't know if his religion had anything to do with it but it appeared so to me) Also this comment was made at a Breakfast meeting S.W.A.P. if you know it, and it was some 30 plus years ago.

His view that I posted goes a lot further and is even more radical.

He believes that it is the Government's place to:

Defend the Country, internally and externally.
Create the Laws
Create and maintain a place where these laws can be determined. Namely the Court System.
There were a few more areas like Police however this happened far to long ago for me to remember the detail.

It would appear that he was suggesting a two tiered system. The upper part defended the country and the local issues of maintaining a Fire Truck was left to those who had the need.

This is not my preferred form of government. It is merely something open to discussion. Throw it out if you like, admonish it I don't care, but please don't put shit on me when you have nothing constructive to say just because you want to be part of the bully gang, and look good amongst other like thinking people.
 

RainLover

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Rainlover's would just do his dance and the downpour would put out the fire. ;)

Brian

Isn't this just a Racist statement.

Indians or early Americans as they may now be called, did various dances.

One of which is the Rain Dance. No need to make fun of their ritual.
 

Brianwarnock

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Isn't this just a Racist statement.

Indians or early Americans as they may now be called, did various dances.

One of which is the Rain Dance. No need to make fun of their ritual.

Everybody with an ounce of intelligence would know that I was making a light hearted joke out of your alias, you really do need to get a life.

Brian
 

RainLover

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Everybody with an ounce of intelligence would know that I was making a light hearted joke out of your alias, you really do need to get a life.

Brian

Brian

My apologies. I did not pick up on your light hearted joke and should have.

If you find the time Google "Rain Lover" with a space and you will find the association is to a Racing Horse. Hence my mind does not think about dancing.
 

Brianwarnock

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LOL I would never have picked up anything to do with horse racing as I don't follow it. I wonder if I would have tried the joke if I had known the connection.
Such is life, full of ifs and buts and misunderstandings.

Brian
 

Mihail

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Hi !
I read every post in this thread.
Due to my lack of English I don't understand everything.
But I understand the poster's location (Brian leave in Merseyside - England ; sorry Brian but your post is the last one :) ) and I smile almost all the time.
It is easy when you leave in England or in USA to speak about socialism. And become funny when you, guys, try to design a parallel between this two systems.

I was born in socialism. First half of my life I leave in socialism; the second half in capitalism.
Unfortunately I can't explain WHY in English language but believe me: It was much better before (in socialism) than now (in capitalism).
In Romania, the capitalism is very very VERY good for 5 persons from 1000 and very very VERY bad for the rest.
The socialism was only good. But for 995 persons from 1000.
 

scott-atkinson

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Mihail,

My Girlfriend is Polish, and I am english, and she says exactly the same as you, the only good thing that she says has come out of Capitalism is the freedom to travel.
 

Mihail

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Mihail,

My Girlfriend is Polish, and I am english, and she says exactly the same as you, the only good thing that she says has come out of Capitalism is the freedom to travel.

For travel you need money.
Indeed, now we can travel anywhere. But how ? First we must eat. After that... no travel :( .
Are you (from "free" world) free to travel to the moon ? Why you don't spend the weekend time there ?
For us, a travel in US is like a travel to the Moon: impossible.

More:
"Before", every year, me and my family, spending 10 days to the Black Sea shore and 10 days at the mountains. Now I spend few weekends, in the summer at the mountains. There are 20 years from the last visit to the sea.
And I am a happy man here. There are more others (especially young boys and girls) that don't see the sea never in there life.
And we leave in Romania, not in USA. There are 700-800 Km from one side of the country to the other side. But, for us, this "travel" is too expensive NOW.

You talk about your "girlfriend". So you are young and she is young too. But ask her parents and you will find out more than she can say.

Note please that the system (socialism or capitalism) has nothing to do with the freedom.
When Hitler take the power, the Germany has a capitalist system. But not freedom.
 

scott-atkinson

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Both my Girlfriend and I were in our late teens when the Berlin wall came down, and Capitalism started to spread across the Eastern Bloc, so she remembers very clearly the before and after...

Before she said, most people had jobs, after, some people had jobs, she remembers queuing for bread, where she didnt need to do that before.

I know quite a few Eastern European people through my Girlfriend, Moldovan's, Bulgarians, Ukrainians, Polish, Latvians, Lithuanians and Romanians, they are working in the UK, and earning good money, good compared to what they could earn in their own countries at least, but they all tell the same story. Although it has given them the freedom to come to the UK and earn better money.

My Latvian friend Ginter, he came to the UK, and earned 4000 euros, with this he was able to buy outright a flat in Riga, to which he sold 3 years later for 48,000 euros, he used that money to invest in other properties, and to open his own recruitment business to which he now organises Eastern Europeans to come to the UK to work.

Capitalism has given him the opportunity to do all that because he had the drive to succeed.

A person under Socialist reign with a passion to succeed will do ok, give him the freedom of Capitalism, and he will do very well, likewise, a person devoid of passion will do the same regardless if it is Socialism or Capitalism..

On a side note, I am coming to Romania in April to a friends wedding, my first trip to your beautiful country, I am looking forward to it ;)
 

RainLover

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And somewhere along the line you must have missed that I happen to part with money in an effort to sustain an Access related forum - I can find plenty of "political discussion" for free - which as about what its worth.

I think you will find more Forums have sections for general discussion than not.

I am a member of a Photographic Forum and they have a section which discusses similar matters to the water cooler in AWF.

It helps to get to know other members and can be a bit of fun.

The best part is that you only need to join in if you want to. Quite often there are some serious discussions in the Access area which can go on for days or even weeks.

Hope you look closer at us and enjoy your membership.
 

Mihail

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A person under Socialist reign with a passion to succeed will do ok, give him the freedom of Capitalism, and he will do very well, likewise, a person devoid of passion will do the same regardless if it is Socialism or Capitalism.
Yes Scott. You are right here. But I have huge doubts that every one in UK has its own business.
Your story confirm what I already said: for 5 peoples from 1000 the capitalism is better than socialism.
Before she said, most people had jobs, after, some people had jobs, she remembers queuing for bread, where she didnt need to do that before.
More:
"Before" if the Militia (actually is Police) stop a man on the street they ask about identity card and about the workplace (where he work). If the man can't prove that he has a job he go to the jail. (Sorry for the grammar. I learned English from the computer help files) . If a child not go to the school, his parents pay money (like a driver when he make mistakes in traffic).
Anything in the health area was free from money. ANYTHING. Starting with teeth and ending with cancer.
Now, a person is dead if hasn't money. Even the medical employes should pay if they are unlucky with their health.

As you can see, I can't explain very well because I don't know the words in English. But there are more other aspects.

This was in the social area.
Lets take a look to the economy.

After 50 years of socialism, in 1989, Romania should receive from other countries, (especially




arab countries - Irak is only one exemple) a couple of billions dollars.
Now, after 24 years of capitalism, Romania have other couple of billion dollars... to send to others (
International Monetary Fund - hope you understand). Why ? Because.

Ok. Enough for now :)

I am happy for you.
Indeed, Romania is a beautiful country. And with a history that start hundred years before Christ.
If I can help you somehow let me know. This is my phone number: 004-0745.57.82.62 but I warn you: I read English better than I write, I write better than I speak and I speak better than I understand if someone speak to me :).

Have a good day ! (You and all others)
 

scott-atkinson

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Mihail,

I suggest you edit your post and remove your telephone number, everybody on the web can access it.

Send it to me in a private message if you want to.



You seem to have a good grasp of Socialism / Capitalism. In your opinion what are good and bad points of them both?

And what about Communism? Is that good or bad? It seems to be working for China, but not so for North Korea.
 

Mihail

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I suggest you edit your post and remove your telephone number, everybody on the web can access it.
Thank you for your care. But, if someone have time (and money) to make unnecessary calls... he/she is welcome (I prefer a "she" :) ) . I think that Face Book is a lot more dangerous.

You seem to have a good grasp of Socialism / Capitalism.
Not very sure about that. The politics is far away of my interest area. Only I talk about what I saw/see and how I feel this.
But I know that this are economics sides, not politics.
Lot of people when say "communism" think "Stalin"; when say "fascism" think "Hitler" and so on ("Bin Laden" for terrorism, "South Africa" for racism etc). But Stalin, as well as Hitler (not sure about Bin Laden :) ) are dead from a while and the communism, fascism or terrorism still exists.

In your opinion what are good and bad points of them both?
As I said there are economics sides.
In capitalism an owner try to pay as less as he can. Is this a good or a bad point?.
On the other hand, an worker try to be "the best" in order to gain an increased salary. Is this a good or a bad point?. Seems to be a good one because every one try to learn and to work more and better. But there are more other ways to become "the best": to tell the owner that your colleague is stupid, to not teach others etc.

What happen, in socialism with my work (converted in money) ?
A part is gone (as well as in capitalism) to cover social requirements (taxes). The rest is for me.
What happen in capitalism ?
You know better: Taxes + Owner and the rest is for you. Why the owner take a part of my work ? Because.

What happen with taxes ?
In socialism: no pay for medical services, no pay for education (instruction), houses (very cheap) etc and, of course, as well as in capitalism, roads, bridges etc. etc.
In capitalism: you should tell me. I pay and I pay and I pay again (in the last 23 years) but I don't see any result. Of course I refer to Romania. (BTW: If you come here with your car, drive very carefully. Never you know when you find a hole in the middle of the road).

It seems to be working for China, but not so for North Korea.
From where you know this ? From TV ? Newspapers ?
China is a superpower. Korea is not.
You can write or say anything about the North Korea. No danger here. Is not the same with China.

Finally, a book that explain pretty well the economics differences between this two systems.
The author is a capitalist too. So he is a little bit on the capitalism side. But is OK.

Thank you for the chance to learn more English !
Have a nice day (and life) ! This refer to ALL not only to you :)
 

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