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Old 10-09-2017, 04:49 PM   #91
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Re: Las Vegas

A bit of gun stuff to help keep you on the straight and narrow when watching the news, reading the paper etc.

The 5.56 (223 Remington when in a hunting rifle) and the cartridge for the M16 and similar rifles, will be described in various terms such as high calibre, extremely powerful, the extremely high velocity and whatever else you want to add.

Now for the reality. Of centre fire rifles (as opposed to the rim fires) it is the least powerful of the commonly available cartridges. Of the smaller bore size cartridges it has the lowest velocity of the commonly available cartridges.

The AK47 cartridge, the 7.62 X 39, same bullet diameter as the old 303 but much lighter in weight and slower. It the 30 calibre range it is the lowest powered that is commonly available, even less than the lever action 30/30.

The 7.62 NATO replaced the 303 and 30/06. It is about the same power (kinetic energy) as the 303 but with a lighter bullet going a bit faster. 303 Mark VII ammo was 174 grain bullet at 2440 f/s the 7.62 NATA is generally a 150 grain bullet at 2750 f/s. On the power scale of sporting cartridges it is very low level.

These days the 7.62 NATO is used only in machine guns and also in the shorter range sniper rifles, which is most sniper rifles.

A sporting cartridge like the 30/378 Weatherby uses the same diameter bullets as the 7.62 NATO but has 2.5 times the powder. Something like the 30 or 338 Chey Tac use 3 time plus more powder. Of course there is a price to pay with short barrel life, very savage recoil and extreme muzzle blast. These sort of rifles are almost always used with a muzzle brake to control recoil and that makes ear muffs (often with ear plugs) mandatory.

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Old 10-10-2017, 11:38 AM   #92
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Re: Las Vegas

One puzzling thing.

If these guns are so brilliant and accurate and can kill at hundreds of yards - why can't the crack shot ex commandos of The A Team ever hit any of their persuers?

It's a mystery.

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Old 10-10-2017, 12:30 PM   #93
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Re: Las Vegas

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColinEssex View Post
One puzzling thing.

If these guns are so brilliant and accurate and can kill at hundreds of yards - why can't the crack shot ex commandos of The A Team ever hit any of their persuers?

It's a mystery.

Col
The same reason you can't walk into a blue box labeled "Police" and travel through time and space? Something about "TV" =/= "Real Life"?

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Old 10-10-2017, 01:07 PM   #94
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Re: Las Vegas

Colin

Quote:
why can't the crack shot ex commandos of The A Team ever hit any of their persuers?
It's a contract thing. The A team is secretly sponsored by an ammunition company that wants to blow through hundreds of rounds of ammo per episode. Well, if they hit the bad guys too soon, they have trouble meeting their quota.

Hey, makes as much sense as anything else I see on the TV.
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Old 10-10-2017, 10:50 PM   #95
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Re: Las Vegas

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The same reason you can't walk into a blue box labeled "Police" and travel through time and space? Something about "TV" =/= "Real Life"?
I have a garden shed that has so much old junk in it that when I go into it I am transformed back to the 1970's.

We use kitchen utensils that we bought in the 1980's and our dinner plates were a wedding present from 1972. We have spice packets dated 1980's and play our LP's from the 1960's on our radiogram.

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Old 10-11-2017, 05:48 AM   #96
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Re: Las Vegas

Yes, we don't throw away stuff either. I've got some of my dad's carpentry and automotive tools from the 1960s.
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Old 10-11-2017, 05:57 AM   #97
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Re: Las Vegas

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColinEssex View Post
I have a garden shed that has so much old junk in it that when I go into it I am transformed back to the 1970's.

We use kitchen utensils that we bought in the 1980's and our dinner plates were a wedding present from 1972. We have spice packets dated 1980's and play our LP's from the 1960's on our radiogram.

Col
Music is the great equalizer, the minute you hear that certain song you are literally transported back through time.

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Old 10-11-2017, 07:22 AM   #98
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Re: Las Vegas

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColinEssex View Post
I have a garden shed that has so much old junk in it that when I go into it I am transformed back to the 1970's.
Col
That said the two most relevant queries are; colour, and verbiage stating "Police"?

Personally I lack the "Junk in the Trunk" so many youths are emphatically desiring.
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Old 10-17-2017, 07:22 AM   #99
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Re: Las Vegas

To those who wondered why I considered a lone shooter much less dangerous than other means, please see what a truck bomb can do.

Very very sad, and I am disappointed that it has not been on the media near as much as the shooter in Las Vegas. Once more this simply illustrates how "America"-centric much news is these days.
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Old 10-17-2017, 04:38 PM   #100
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Re: Las Vegas

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Originally Posted by Mark_ View Post
To those who wondered why I considered a lone shooter much less dangerous than other means, please see what a truck bomb can do.

Very very sad, and I am disappointed that it has not been on the media near as much as the shooter in Las Vegas. Once more this simply illustrates how "America"-centric much news is these days.
Las Vegas filled Australian media for a week but like you said there was not much about the bombing.

Of course we also had the usual crap about Australian gun laws whenever there is a shooting in the US.

Gun stuff is good for the media as apart from the media having no gun knowledge neither do the non gun owning public. Some of the crap put forward is unreal, pure fantasy land but since the non gun owning public have only a collection of erroneous ideas on guns they get away with the fantasy land stuff.

All countries have one thing in common and that is "mass shootings", usually defined as more than 4 people shot, kill only an extremely small number of people, a very small fraction of a percent as compared to other shootings.

I suppose for movie makers it is good that non gun owners have zero factual knowledge on guns
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Old 10-20-2017, 05:00 AM   #101
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Re: Las Vegas

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The 22 rim fire was and is and will continue to be the biggest killer in Australia and that includes suicide. However, it is in the least restrictive category

The 22 rim fire is also the most commonly used in crime.

On the other hand some calibres that are banned or highly restricted have probably never been used for any type of illegal activity anywhere in the world, not even shooting a road sign.
Sounds like a good argument for restriction;

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Old 10-20-2017, 05:38 AM   #102
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Re: Las Vegas

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Sounds like a good argument for restriction;

Brian
Yes.....but gun laws are not based on community safety. In fact many of the gun laws/restrictions go against community safety.

Money and Employment......
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Old 10-20-2017, 07:59 AM   #103
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Re: Las Vegas

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Originally Posted by Brianwarnock View Post
Sounds like a good argument for restriction;

Brian
If restriction is based on many, many users using a product safely but only a few harming themselves or others, then we had best first and foremost get knives out of the hands of the general public. Same with that nasty stuff, dihydrogen monoxide!

Sources:
https://www.royallifesaving.com.au/_..._Report_LR.pdf

http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html
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Old 10-20-2017, 11:32 AM   #104
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Re: Las Vegas

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According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, 390 deaths a year on average are attributed to drowning in a swimming pool or at a spa.
That's a Jumbo Jet full of kids...Not to mention cars, toys and other everyday things. I say ban life its dangerous.
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Old 10-20-2017, 02:24 PM   #105
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Re: Las Vegas

Doing some surfing about for U.S. statistics, I've found something fairly relevant for this discussion.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...ables/table-12

I used a total of all "Handguns" + "Rifles" + "Shotguns" to calculate a percentage of how many deaths are attributed directly to each. This gave a staggering number of 636. The ratio to handguns though is less than one to twelve.

Using the percentage for "Rifles" + "Shotguns" I conclude that on average another 268 are included in the "type unknown", a fact that reflects poorly on U.S. Law enforcement's ability to verify what weapon was used.

This gives a rather staggering number of 904 killed in 2016 by long arms. Surprisingly the number killed by "Knives or cutting instruments" is higher at 1604 and is actually closer to the 656 killed by "Hands, Fists, Feet, ect."

The true numbers are rather horrid, but does make one feel more comfortable around the fellow carrying an assault rifle than the one wearing martial arts attire.

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