Microsoft is killing win32... (1 Viewer)

nfk

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...and with it...


MS ACCESS!!!! WHOOOOO

Its been around for a while... people know this, but dreamers like this clown seem to deny the facts. No one is actually working on porting Access into the new world, they're just gonna let it die slowly just like Windows Forms (that is still about three billion times better alternative to Access)

https://www.zdnet.com/article/why-windows-must-die-for-the-third-time/

Deal with it... ITZ OVERZ!!!!!
 

Uncle Gizmo

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Now.... I think you're onto something:-

Enhancements to macro language: Allow for looping and more control of other objects.

I can't imagine the headaches that's going to cause! Having macros with Loops in them, they are damn near impossible to understand now, without adding loops!
 

nfk

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Now.... I think you're onto something:-

Enhancements to macro language: Allow for looping and more control of other objects.

I can't imagine the headaches that's going to cause! Having macros with Loops in them, they are damn near impossible to understand now, without adding loops!

Did you at least voted my idea on UserVoice?
 

The_Doc_Man

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After reading the article, my response is - go ahead and believe all you want in the death of Windows, Access, etc.

Economics always wins. You WILL NOT get rid of Win32, Excel, Access, Word, etc. without making a clean and easy path to port to the new UWP environment - because the initiative being described hits the "bottom line" of a corporation's profit & loss balance sheet. Business priority will make people port to UNIX (and be done with it) before they would upgrade their Windows systems yet again, particularly if Microsoft keeps pushing these expensive upgrades down the pike. By expensive in this context, I specifically mean that the corporate IT staff has to perform extensive testing to see what will be affected by the latest round of changes. The customers will make it clear to Microsoft that they are not happy. The federal government is all for things that increase security but they will say, "No you don't. We will REQUIRE you to continue support or you will lose a multi-billion dollar customer who can issue regulations on your industry." (I've actually seen it done twice in 28 1/2 years - once for something ORACLE wanted to do and the other was a company that eventually went out of business.)

NFK, I remember from your prior visits that you vehemently hate Access and I simple have this advice for you. If you don't like it, don't use it. If so, it is no longer your problem. I won't be vulgar, I will simply point out that being so negative in this context doesn't speak well for your manners.
 

nfk

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After reading the article, my response is - go ahead and believe all you want in the death of Windows, Access, etc.

Economics always wins. You WILL NOT get rid of Win32, Excel, Access, Word, etc. without making a clean and easy path to port to the new UWP environment - because the initiative being described hits the "bottom line" of a corporation's profit & loss balance sheet. Business priority will make people port to UNIX (and be done with it) before they would upgrade their Windows systems yet again, particularly if Microsoft keeps pushing these expensive upgrades down the pike. By expensive in this context, I specifically mean that the corporate IT staff has to perform extensive testing to see what will be affected by the latest round of changes. The customers will make it clear to Microsoft that they are not happy. The federal government is all for things that increase security but they will say, "No you don't. We will REQUIRE you to continue support or you will lose a multi-billion dollar customer who can issue regulations on your industry." (I've actually seen it done twice in 28 1/2 years - once for something ORACLE wanted to do and the other was a company that eventually went out of business.)

NFK, I remember from your prior visits that you vehemently hate Access and I simple have this advice for you. If you don't like it, don't use it. If so, it is no longer your problem. I won't be vulgar, I will simply point out that being so negative in this context doesn't speak well for your manners.

Ok, granted. win32 stuff if probably never gonna die, they will find a way of keeping it isolated enough to make it safe to the outer environment... kinda like what people does with Dosbox, running incredible old Accountancy packages for a number of customers, I've seen this, its horrendous but forget about extracting 30 years worth of data from the file some of these applications produce...

But think about it, the people using software like that its not my age, its old timers not wanting change, whether they're the owners, or the old it guy or the 80 year old accountant... In 20 years Access will be gone, or it will be the closest thing to writing a document on WordStar in 2018. They dont need to deprecate if they can just move on and catch up with what other are doing or invest more on more stable and scalable solutions... Check UserVoice, some of the most sound requests from users (Access users) are turn down almost with no reply, like FUCKING having syntax highlight (WHAT??? NO SYNTAX HIGHLIGHT ON THE SQL EDITOR??? GTFOOO!!!) You tell me if thats not killing your product...

In the end I can be blamed of being an arrogant turd, a non gallant troll, an abusive man-child akin to herpes, an impotent and any other combination of insulting derogatory terminology but the truth is I've been around many, many, many places using Access and the reality is always the same... Users are so much ready to move away from it...
 
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Uncle Gizmo

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Did you at least voted my idea on UserVoice?

No I didn't... I don't do that voting type thingy... I don't do raffle tickets... I don't do pay this to this charity or that charity.... I'm just miserable old fart, and it's way past his bedtime because he's such an old bar steward... So I'm off to bed...

I'll be on here early in the morning while you're laying in bed recovering from your drug-induced hallucinations...
 

nfk

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I'll be on here early in the morning while you're laying in bed recovering from your drug-induced hallucinations...

hhahahaa ohhh... I laughed at that one, not gonna lie...
 

The_Doc_Man

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Users are so much ready to move away from it...

I'll grant that one for you. But you have an incomplete observation. They hate Access. They WANT to go to some other platform. They try a project. The brand-new and thus somewhat immature product in question can't cope with the complexity. They try to prototype the new product and it doesn't do the job. And they go back to Access because for ALL of its tricks and foibles, it gets the job done and usually in an understandable way.

Now if you REALLY wanted to talk about "holey moley what do these folks think they are DOING?" - look at some of the Excel forums where they are doing a database-type app with VBA in a flat-file environment. THAT is one I could never understand.
 

nfk

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I'll grant that one for you. But you have an incomplete observation. They hate Access. They WANT to go to some other platform. They try a project. The brand-new and thus somewhat immature product in question can't cope with the complexity. They try to prototype the new product and it doesn't do the job. And they go back to Access because for ALL of its tricks and foibles, it gets the job done and usually in an understandable way.

Now if you REALLY wanted to talk about "holey moley what do these folks think they are DOING?" - look at some of the Excel forums where they are doing a database-type app with VBA in a flat-file environment. THAT is one I could never understand.

This is such a good a idea.

 

The_Doc_Man

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I'm SURE these folks would LOVE to hear YOUR opinions, NFK. But do me ONE small favor if you go there. Don't tell them I sent you.
 

Mark_

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Or you could switch over to a REAL development environment and leave that horrid, horrid .net stuff behind.
 

The_Doc_Man

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it will be the closest thing to writing a document on WordStar in 2018

Hey, let's not knock Wordstar. I wrote my first novel using it. When I got married, my wife and I made our own wedding programs using WS, a clip-art CD that cost $10, and a big font variety CD that cost $8. Granted, 20+ years ago, but WS did EVERYTHING that Word and WordPerfect could do at that time. We had to copy the pages and hand-assemble stuff, but EVERYTHING worked and we had a custom booklet for our guests that cost maybe about $50 materials and software for 200 copies. Not only that, we were able to exactly match the font face, density, and size of the commercial invitations that we bought, and I used a laser jet printer so the booklet contents looked great on the high-grade paper. Say all you like about its venerable age, but WordStar worked GREAT for me at the time that I needed it.

But think about it, the people using software like that its not my age, its old timers not wanting change, whether they're the owners, or the old it guy or the 80 year old accountant...

No, YOU think about it. People drag their feet because they have to stage their products according to their CASH FLOW. You want to change to new software? It costs money to do that and businesses aren't ALWAYS replete with cash. First, over 80% of all USA businesses count as "small business" - the Mom and Pop grocery or the Entrepreneurial pastry chef or the small neighborhood plumbing contractor, etc. They are not making money hand over fist, as the old phrase goes. They hope they can keep their people employed for another month. Access serves SMALL BUSINESSES who can't afford the expensive and continuous update cycle foisted on them by Microsoft and its relentless update cycle.

So... what are they to do? Running a UNIX doesn't avoid the continuous update cycle. Remember, I worked for the U.S. Navy for 25+ years. I saw the security notices that came out every other week. Windows, UNIX, and Apple systems ALL were vulnerable to some degree. As far as expenses go, though, I can tell you from personal observation in the world of commercial programming (which I did before I started my Navy work) that the REAL cost isn't the O/S - it is the development cost of the custom software that caters to your business needs.

When you talk about something going away, that ignores that for the businesses in question, it CANNOT go away without making the business itself go away. Because THEY CANNOT AFFORD the redevelopment cycle you discuss, NFK. You are IGNORING the reality of cash-strapped businesses that struggle to keep the bank balance from bottoming out just before payday.

NFK, you are intelligent enough to recognize many factors, but you are showing a big streak of ignorance as well. Economics drives business. Continual software upgrades eat away at the bottom line where you HOPE to have a positive balance after taxes. Making a huge investment in software only to have someone say, "Oh, that's going away in x years" is enough to make people go crazy. But THEN - starting that replacement anyway because you know you MUST do it? Only to find that NO OTHER PRODUCT does what Access does at this time? Now you have folks ready to retire to the Poconos or jump head first into Mauna Kea.

And worse - when they realize they went to a new O/S (non-Windows) that will require retraining for all of their support staff,... that retraining costs money they didn't have to spend in the first place.

If this is your idea of business economics, you have a lot to learn. I hope you actually DO go into business for yourself and come face to face with this issue. I don't want anyone to fail in business, but it would be great if your attempt ran into a speed bump before you finally started succeeding. You might gain a better appreciation of the other side of the coin on the issues that you are currently pushing.
 

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