NASA Study Indicates Antarctica is Gaining More Ice Than It's Losing - (2 Viewers)

Wow, you literally just called education 'weaponizing of children'.

Well, now we know were you stand on that whole new-fangled 'fire' thing.

AccessBlaster said:

The Klan and white supremacy represents a tiny fraction of society. The classroom on the other hand represents about 99% of political indoctrination of children mostly run by democrats, pushing their kooky theories.

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Unfortunately, we have drifted far from the issue of Antarctica Ice. Nevertheless, we have entered a period where the progressive left "race baiters" keeps racism "alive" despite Martin Luther King's plaintiff appeal:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

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The hysterical fanatical embracement of "identity politics" by the political left discounts "character". Additionally, the political left pushes hatred of those outside the "tribe".

The_Doc_Man said:

Hatred is where you find it. But, sadly, if you wanted some and couldn't find it, it is still not that hard to make it. Just start them young, before their reasoning skills have matured.

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Frothingslosh said:

Wow, you literally just called education 'weaponizing of children'.

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Sounds like a reference to the National Workers Socialist Party or the Young Pioneers. Unfortunately it is a very common tactic for any political group who wishes to gain or remain in power.

Frothingslosh said:

Wow, you literally just called education 'weaponizing of children'.

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Absolutely

Frothingslosh said:

Well, now we know were you stand on that whole new-fangled 'fire' thing.

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I don't know what that references is, but knowing this forum my guess it has something to do with Hitler. So no, I am against that.

isladogs said:

Not sure why you keep quoting Jordan Peterson

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- Jordan has identified the Marxists as a threat, (by the way he also considers the right wing a threat as well) - so when I saw that article, it reminded me of his warnings about the Marxist element, which I think is worth bringing to your attention. One of the reasons I think it's worth mentioning is that Jordan Peterson experienced first-hand how manipulative and underhanded the Marxist ideology makes people. They tried to shut him down down right at the beginning, threatening Court action and the like.

This didn't work because he understands them very well. In one of his videos he hinted that he worked closely with the left wing element early on in his life. I don't think he actually follow the ideology, but he was immersed in it enough to come to the conclusion that the Marxist left actually HATE Capitalists and the patriarchy and just want to tear it down. It's more than thinking it's wrong and trying to put things right, there is an actual hatred in them. This is why One have his rules for life is to put your room in order, in other words if you yourself are a complete mess, how do you think you can come out into the world and put the world to rights? No chance!

isladogs said:

its a matter of opinion whether he is in the centre ground...

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In Jordan's case, it's not a matter of opinion or politics really, it's that the way society is, with its left and right bias, that's a natural phenomenon. It has evolved out of the way we structure government, we structure government based on individual Instincts, coming together collectively. Hence the Democratic two party structure, left and right has evolved and is used, and has been proven in many governments.

Dr Jordan B Peterson says this two party structure is not accidental, it mirrors our brain structure in that we have two hemispheres, one which is practical and one which is artistic/chaotic. The Conservatives, the right, they like strict borders, they like strict control, and have a closed outlook. The left on the other hand, like to tear down barriers, bring people together, and are more open.

It is the result of the interplay between the two extremes that makes government manageable. On the face of it it looks ridiculous to have a Labour government that implement wide-ranging changes, moving the country and laws and regulations in One Direction with nationalization for example. On the contrary, the conservative elements they reverse this with privatisation!

It appears a ridiculous way to run a country, a government, but it works. The reason it works is because both sides, both are necessary. Both are wrong, dangerous, damaging if they get too much control. Hence my comment that Jordan Peterson takes the Middle Road. Too far to the left and things are bad, too far to the right and things are bad. The ideal situation is for both sides to talk and negotiate.

There have been a lot of comments in this lengthy thread that I have disagreed with. However the next 2 comments are I believe reprehensible

AccessBlaster said:

The big threat is how the left weaponize children. They can't seem to get their agenda passed using adults.

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The Klan and white supremacy represents a tiny fraction of society. The classroom on the other hand represents about 99% of political indoctrination of children mostly run by democrats, pushing their kooky theories.

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After 37 years in education in a wide variety of UK schools, both as a Science/ICT teacher and for the final 12 years as a senior school manager, I think I know a bit about this particular subject. Rarely have I heard such dangerous uninformed nonsense as that espoused in the above two quotes.

There are of course teachers of all political persuasions from extreme left to extreme right though most would be roughly in the political centre. Whatever their views, very few will make those views known to students.

However, schools as institutions, are in general basically 'conservative'. By that I don't mean they are right wing. Nor are they left wing. What I do mean is that there is no agenda either overt or hidden to change the nature or structure of society.

On the extremely rare occasions that schools do shift away from the middle ground, a series of checks and balances come into place to counteract that.
There have been occasional issues e.g. with faith schools of different religions pushing an intolerant viewpoint
The last time a school had a radical left wing agenda in the UK was the White Lion School back in 1973. It was closed down.

What schools are expected to do, at least in the UK, is to ensure students are informed about important world issues, are made aware of the evidence available and of differing opinions that exist on those issues. They are encouraged to make up their own minds and to respect the different opinions held by others. A tiny minority will become activists for a particular cause because they feel strongly about an issue. How can anyone suggest that is due to political indoctrination and expect to be taken seriously?

If the next generation become more open minded and show fewer prejudices than their parents & grandparents that is a good thing. Amongst many other things, the deeply held prejudices shown in this lengthy thread has certainly indicated that there is a need for society to become more tolerant.

In that respect, perhaps I agree with Uncle Gizmo's comments in the last post ... though not with all of his opinions about JP. That certainly doesn't mean I'm right & he is wrong.

isladogs said:

There have been a lot of comments in this lengthy thread that I have disagreed with. However the next 2 comments are I believe reprehensible

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You know whats really reprehensible when the left in this country use kids as a political tool, that is the definition reprehensible. "Mommy stop using styrofoam cups your killing the polar bears." Or scaring toddlers into thinking they have only 12 years to live.

Ever notice when a teacher goes on strike and walks the picket line, the first thing out of their mouth is "its for the kids." Now that's reprehensible. Just be honest and say you want the raise because you earned it. Stop scaring little Johnny with your paranoid psychosis.

Teachers in this country need to stay on message, reading writing and arithmetic. That's it! Leave your BS at home.

AB
Well clearly my lengthy reply had absolutely no impact on yourself.

Do you have a more relevant background in education than mine?
If so, you should perhaps be able to justify your prejudices about the left with some actual facts.

There is a lot more to education than reading writing and arithmetic, vitally important though each of those are.

isladogs said:

AB
Well clearly my lengthy reply had absolutely no impact on yourself.

Do you have a more relevant background in education than mine?
If so, you should perhaps be able to justify your prejudices about the left with some actual facts.

There is a lot more to education than reading writing and arithmetic, vitally important though each of those are.

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Colin,

I will concede that you have a superior education, your writing skills are unmatched. I suspect your resume is flawless. You even have the snarky comments i have come to admire in the educators and administrators I cross paths with on daily basis. So congratulations to you Colin, well done!

Colin,

I shall guess that AB isn't in the UK and may have a differing experience. The problem with talking about education systems is that they differ considerably from country to country. Talking about how educational institutions push an agenda or not requires that all participants talk about the same system at the same time.

I don't think he's calling in to question the UK system, more likely the American system that does have a very heavy "Left" bent in university levels. Some, such as UC Berkeley, are well known for being overtly "Left" while others are known for their "Right" bent.

ABs comments would be more understandable if he specified which educational system he is talking about.

Mark_ said:

ABs comments would be more understandable if he specified which educational system he is talking about.

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True, but what fun would that be? I don’t pretend to argue on an intellectual level.

AccessBlaster said:

True, but what fun would that be? I don’t pretend to argue on an intellectual level.

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I shall endeavor never to falsely accuse you of intellectual arguments then!

Mark_ said:

The problem with talking about education systems is that they differ considerably from country to country

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I thought I should mention that Dr Jordan B Peterson is Canadian, and works in the Canadian education system, in case anyone is under the mistaken impression that he is American.

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Education systems may differ from country to country. But when there are strikes, it is all the same.
I see it now in Belgium. Teachers are angry because they must work harder...
I had the luck to live in France. 20 years ago, the french teachers were angry. And guess why ? exactly the same problem...
Why can't a country look at an other to see how they fixed it ? My colleague's wife is a teacher and all I hear from him is that the kids are to loud, that they don't want to learn. That person is just so brainwashed by the system and thinks that all teachers are the poor fragile creatures that needs help.

Grumm said:

Education systems may differ from country to country. But when there are strikes, it is all the same.
I see it now in Belgium. Teachers are angry because they must work harder...
I had the luck to live in France. 20 years ago, the french teachers were angry. And guess why ? exactly the same problem...
Why can't a country look at an other to see how they fixed it ? My colleague's wife is a teacher and all I hear from him is that the kids are to loud, that they don't want to learn. That person is just so brainwashed by the system and thinks that all teachers are the poor fragile creatures that needs help.

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Fragile they aren't. A fragile person literally could not survive as a teacher.

I have been married to a teacher for more than thirty years. In Australia the teachers' work load just keeps increasing and the conditions deteriorating.

My wife worked as a Deputy Principal supervising ten teachers along with with a full teaching load in her own class of over thirty students. She often worked seven days a week, often to midnight preparing lessons, marking work and writing reports. She supervised children through her breaks. No other profession would accept such terrible conditions.

Our daughter suggested she wanted to be a teacher but her mother advised her against it. Instead, within less than a decade of completing her degree, she became a Senior Manager in an accounting firm and is being paid far more than my wife retired on a couple of years ago after forty years as an Executive teacher. The only work she takes home is for the day a week she works from home over the internet.

Mark_ said:

The problem with talking about education systems is that they differ considerably from country to country.

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Not only do education systems differ from country to country, but in a large country like the US; they also differ by cultural group.

The SAT scores in the US for 2018 (major categories).

Asian: 1223
White: 1123
Latino: 990
Black: 946

Regretfully, in the US (because of our politically correct culture), there appears to be a refusal to acknowledge that the value of education has a cultural component.

Moreover, the US, in terms of international education rankings, the US seems to lag behind the UK, European countries, and Asian countries.

Mark_ said:

I shall endeavor never to falsely accuse you of intellectual arguments then!

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I figure why argue the intellectual, when the visceral is far more interesting.

Galaxiom said:

Fragile they aren't. A fragile person literally could not survive as a teacher.

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Something on which we agree. My step-daughter M. has been a teacher for over 20 years. The first 20 were with the local public school system. Now she is retired from the public system but teaching at a private school.

I consider your system sufficiently remote from ours that they should be effectively independent. Thus it saddens me to hear that your system suffers from very similar problems to the ones that M. has described. Dear M. has to work an extra job on weekends to have a decent income so has no particular life of her own.

Further, we are in south Louisiana. For a brief time after leaving the local public school system she worked in an east-coast Florida school, but says they are even worse. I often wonder about the future of countries where the children cannot even get a decent education. It is not only the Islamic countries of the world who suppress secular education. There is also suppression by neglect.

AccessBlaster said:

I figure why argue the intellectual, when the visceral is far more interesting.

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You can't make completely false statements that question the impartiality of the whole education system and expect that people will take them as light hearted comments.

isladogs said:

You can't make completely false statements that question the impartiality of the whole education system and expect that people will take them as light hearted comments.

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I expressed my opinion you interpreted as false, you are free to do so. But please Colin do not lecture me it's tired and boring.