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Old 11-05-2019, 06:23 AM   #31
The_Doc_Man
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Re: Trump VS Obama

Regarding Japan's under-employment crisis, the problem is that if you want high-tech industry you need high-tech workers and in that requirement, Japan is not alone. The problem with having a high-tech industry and a low-tech workforce has come home to roost in nations around the world including the USA.

Trump actually would LOVE to have more high-tech people come live in the USA because they are likely to be self-sufficient sooner. We lack doctors & nurses, engineers, scientists, technicians, lawyers, ... you name it, we need it. We need laborers, too, and the truth is that many Hispanic immigrants are willing to do jobs here that even some blacks don't want to do. But those blacks hate the immigrants because it reveals their own lack of work ethic. I know I'm going to get criticized for that, but that is the talk that I hear among people here in the USA right now.

The growing trend to automation comes about because the kids rebel against the kind of education they need to survive in a high-tech world. If you can't get someone smart enough to do the job, program a machine to do at least some of it. That is the way a lot of businesses are going, and what is left for the low-tech people of the world is all of the low-paying jobs that are within their abilities.

I am often saddened by my oldest grandson, who had a mild learning disability that was not quickly addressed. He is working now and is the sweetest guy you could ever want to meet, but his tech skills are limited by having zero aptitude for math. My second grandson is more tech-savvy. He will have a chance to excel at something but I'm not sure just what. Current thinking is that he might wish to be a veterinarian, but that is still very tenuous and he's only in 7th grade right now. The third grandson lives three states away and I don't know about him that much except for feedback from my step-daughter when she visits.

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Old 11-05-2019, 06:32 AM   #32
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Re: Trump VS Obama

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many Hispanic immigrants are willing to do jobs here that even some blacks don't want to do.
there's no doubt that this is true. I don't really understand why hispanics are so contents with doing low skilled jobs. Mexico is not a very rich country i don't think, so perhaps they have the same self image problem that blacks do? Some lower income blacks are used to being poor and apparently accept it and become comfortable with it. I personally think that type of contentment and thinking stems all the way back to the days of slavery in the USA.

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But those blacks hate the immigrants because it reveals their own lack of work ethic.
Again, no argument there.

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The growing trend to automation comes about because the kids rebel against the kind of education they need to survive in a high-tech world.
I'm not sure if you're right about this Doc Man. Many kids I come in contact with are eager to learn technology, and some are even better at than adults who work in the industry. Many pick up things quickly.
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:54 AM   #33
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Re: Trump VS Obama

vba_php,

Younger kids are immersed in tech with their games, so they learn by osmosis and have a different set of motivations. But there is an age range where that was not the case. A lot of people take dead-end jobs because they feel "too old to learn something new." I see it a lot. People hate change, perhaps because forced adaptation is unsettling. If you studied stressors in life, as I did when I was undergoing a lot of personal stress, you would recognize that the top several sources of human stress involve change. Change of job, change of residence, change of living conditions (married or not), change of responsibility (kids come into your life), ... But I digress.

When automation takes over the jobs of older folks, they have nowhere to go because as kids they never wanted to learn. Hell, I retired because the Navy was throwing too many extra training requirements on me when at age 67+, I had health issues and a sufficient retirement nest-egg to finally just say "screw it, I'm retiring." I regret not being with the people because they were great - but I don't miss the job.

Now, as to why certain people are more accepting of menial jobs? You have to look at the work of Herbert Maslow, who was an economist (I guess with a Psych minor?) who studied economic motivation. In a society of poor people, day-to-day subsistence is a massive motivator and getting any kind of job at all is an advantage. Which is why many immigrants start out as what we call "day workers." You can see them lined up in the parking lot at the local Lowe's or Home Depot, hoping to find another day of work.

Maslow found that as you gain in education and abilities, whether through night school or OJT, you get longer-term viewpoints and no longer are content with simple subsistence. You start thinking long-term survival, i.e. socking some funds away for that rainy day. The more you learn, the more you become involved in your community. It is important to realize the truth of Benjamin Franklin's old saying, "Hunger is the best pickle." When you are hungry, you are willing to do a lot.

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Old 11-05-2019, 07:15 AM   #34
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Re: Trump VS Obama

Our country has had a long history of immigrants doing lower paying jobs (Chinese, Irish, now Hispanic, I am sure there are plenty of others). They come to our country for various reasons to have a chance to doing better than they were (a lot of times they end up in a better situation). My ancestor came from Ireland as a trapper to Louisiana just before the revolutionary war (he ended up fighting in it). Nobody in my family knows why he came over.
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Old 11-05-2019, 07:20 AM   #35
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Re: Trump VS Obama

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A lot of people take dead-end jobs because they feel "too old to learn something new." I see it a lot. People hate change, perhaps because forced adaptation is unsettling.
I was asked yesterday by a recruiter: "You may think this is a stupid question, but what is object oriented programming?". That skills is listed on almost all job descriptions and of course sales people have no damn idea what that means. So I explained it to him in a "programming for dummies" way. He understood, which surprised the hell out of me! I also told him that believe older people hate OOP because they don't want to learn anything new and are stuck in their ways of the old languages, before OOP came into prominence.

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Hell, I retired because the Navy was throwing too many extra training requirements on me when at age 67+, I had health issues and a sufficient retirement nest-egg to finally just say "screw it, I'm retiring." I regret not being with the people because they were great - but I don't miss the job.
Did you work for the navy your entire life? Aside from the popular notion that sailors have potty mouths, I've heard that the navy boot camp is one of the most difficult to go through, but not as difficult as the marines.

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Which is why many immigrants start out as what we call "day workers." You can see them lined up in the parking lot at the local Lowe's or Home Depot, hoping to find another day of work.
In America, company like Labor Finders pay workers by the day and the hire by the day as well. That is not good business and it promotes instability.
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Old 11-05-2019, 03:20 PM   #36
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Re: Trump VS Obama

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child birth is NOT generally free of charge otherwise!? That's stupid. Makes me wonder if China actually charges people to have a kid as well....the USA has never charged couples a fee for having a baby, other than the hosptial bill of course.
You made me laugh so hard. How could you take my comment this way? I know my English is not too good and it may cause some misunderstanding, but I think that section was clear enough. Let me explain it this way:

There's no charged fee for having child here too. Never have been.
It's a measure that's been setup to make the young couples tend having children. From the very first day of pregnancy up to the child birth, every test, every examination, every treatment, every surgery (if needed) is free. The hospitals or clinics don't charge a cent. Even there's no need to pay bus and taxi fare or train ticket fee for going to hospital, clinics and coming back home.

The hospital bill you're talking about doesn't exist here (for pregnancy).
It means the expense for having a child, medical and not medical expense is zero yen. The city pays it all.

There are other after birth measures too to take care of the child and mother .

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Old 11-05-2019, 05:48 PM   #37
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Re: Trump VS Obama

Your post was not very clear than my friend!

you said:
Quote:
The government takes measures to cope with the situation. Making child birth free of charge, completely free health care up to 15 years old for kids, even paying cash per each child in a family, But still no increase in the population is seen.
the part that says "making child birth free of charge" implies that japan WAS charging for child birth. that's the way it reads.


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Old 11-05-2019, 07:28 PM   #38
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Re: Trump VS Obama

vba_php:

No, I didn't work for the Navy my whole working career. I put in 13 years in private industry related to oil and gas issues in line with my original degree, which is as a chemist. The "Doc" in my name is because of my PhD in analytical chemistry. I worked for a company that did computer controlled systems for oil and gas pipelines. I was the guy who designed and implement many of the software interfaces that monitored the flow rate, pressure, temperature, and viscosity of the contents of the pipeline. Materials measurement was one of my strengths back then. Systems I designed ran interstate or even international pipelines in perhaps 20 states in the USA and six or seven oil-producing companies in places like Venezuela and Saudi Arabia.

Oil went "bust" in New Orleans in 1984 but the exploration industry was still in the Gulf of Mexico. I couldn't leave the city because of family issues so I changed jobs to the navigation industry. That company's product was used in the seismic "shoot" that maps the floor of the gulf looking for oil domes based on echo interpretation. To know where you found an oil dome you have to know where you are, and our navigation system could pinpoint your location to less than half a meter anywhere in the Gulf of Mexico.

I got the Navy job after my mother finally passed on. I was no longer bound to any particular place and answered a blind ad for the job that kept me in New Orleans, though I didn't know that at the time. That job lasted 28 1/2 years until I retired at age 67 1/2. My Access skills came about during my stint with the Navy. It had its rough spots but I learned a lot and did some things that gave me some degree of pride. My problem was simply that with the onset of a mild liver issue and a worse gall bladder issue, I was wearing down. It was time to hand over the reins to the younger generation on health reasons alone, but the escalating job requirements caused me to just make that decision sooner.

Without the health issues, I might still have retired due to the continued increase in requirements. With them, it was a no-brainer. For what it is worth, my health has slowly stabilized so that while I still have issues, they are under control and not worsening, so I'm content with my situation.
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Old 11-05-2019, 07:37 PM   #39
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Re: Trump VS Obama

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For what it is worth, my health has slowly stabilized so that while I still have issues, they are under control and not worsening, so I'm content with my situation.
well i'm glad to hear that! hopefully you will be sticking around here for a while then too!
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Old 11-05-2019, 09:57 PM   #40
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Re: Trump VS Obama

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vba_php:

No, I didn't work for the Navy my whole working career. I put in 13 years in private industry related to oil and gas issues in line with my original degree, which is as a chemist. The "Doc" in my name is because of my PhD in analytical chemistry. I worked for a company that did computer controlled systems for oil and gas pipelines. I was the guy who designed and implement many of the software interfaces that monitored the flow rate, pressure, temperature, and viscosity of the contents of the pipeline. Materials measurement was one of my strengths back then. Systems I designed ran interstate or even international pipelines in perhaps 20 states in the USA and six or seven oil-producing companies in places like Venezuela and Saudi Arabia.

Oil went "bust" in New Orleans in 1984 but the exploration industry was still in the Gulf of Mexico. I couldn't leave the city because of family issues so I changed jobs to the navigation industry. That company's product was used in the seismic "shoot" that maps the floor of the gulf looking for oil domes based on echo interpretation. To know where you found an oil dome you have to know where you are, and our navigation system could pinpoint your location to less than half a meter anywhere in the Gulf of Mexico.

I got the Navy job after my mother finally passed on. I was no longer bound to any particular place and answered a blind ad for the job that kept me in New Orleans, though I didn't know that at the time. That job lasted 28 1/2 years until I retired at age 67 1/2. My Access skills came about during my stint with the Navy. It had its rough spots but I learned a lot and did some things that gave me some degree of pride. My problem was simply that with the onset of a mild liver issue and a worse gall bladder issue, I was wearing down. It was time to hand over the reins to the younger generation on health reasons alone, but the escalating job requirements caused me to just make that decision sooner.

Without the health issues, I might still have retired due to the continued increase in requirements. With them, it was a no-brainer. For what it is worth, my health has slowly stabilized so that while I still have issues, they are under control and not worsening, so I'm content with my situation.
Doc, you should be proud of your abilities and life. If I try to describe myself, it probably finishes in one sentence.
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Old 11-05-2019, 10:25 PM   #41
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Re: Trump VS Obama

Oh, I could add more, but I was trying to keep it simple. At age 71, I've done a bunch of things, seen a bunch of things, ate a bunch of things... (it was the latter that got my digestion all messed up in the first place.)
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:59 AM   #42
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Re: Trump VS Obama

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ate a bunch of things... (it was the latter that got my digestion all messed up in the first place.)
I've eaten nothing but tacos (my favorite food) every day for the last 3 years and I'm in perfect health. go figure that!
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Old 11-06-2019, 06:19 AM   #43
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Re: Trump VS Obama

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the truth is that many Hispanic immigrants are willing to do jobs here that even some blacks don't want to do. But those blacks hate the immigrants because it reveals their own lack of work ethic. I know I'm going to get criticized for that, but that is the talk that I hear among people here in the USA right now.
Let's take construction for instance, it your belief that African Americans and white males on the jobs sites simply had bad work ethics? Or could it be that their living wage has been under cut by cheep labor from the southern border? Many blacks were in trades like drywall and painting, you go to job sites now it's all one ethnicity Hispanic.

People may not want to pick vegetables in the field all day for low wages, but that doesn't translate across the board.

That's liberal talking points my friend.
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Old 11-06-2019, 06:31 AM   #44
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Re: Trump VS Obama

AB, regardless of the reason, failure to adapt to major lifestyle changes can lead to all sorts of issues.

Whether it was a warped sense of pride or a bad work ethic or having kited on schooling, if they can't compete, it is economic "survival of the fittest" at work.
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:07 AM   #45
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Re: Trump VS Obama

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Your post was not very clear than my friend!

you said:
the part that says "making child birth free of charge" implies that japan WAS charging for child birth. that's the way it reads.

FYI: For most citizens in the USA, whatever insurance does not pay (if you have insurance), then it is left for us to pay. My first child cost me $1800 and that was a straight forward birth.

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