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Old 10-05-2019, 03:32 PM   #1
Uncle Gizmo
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What would this TURF war look like?

https://quillette.com/2019/10/02/und...-called-terfs/

Am I, are you, a TURF?

Sent from Newbury UK

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Old 10-05-2019, 08:57 PM   #2
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Re: What would this TURF war look like?

The major issue is that apparently there exists a deep-seated revulsion often displayed by people when confronted with something they don't understand, and they don't understand "trannies." I wouldn't want to date one but some cases have been documented for some of the more spectacular surgical conversion cases in which males can't tell the difference.

It actually doesn't surprise me that men can't tell the difference between a natural-born woman and a surgical conversion, because most guys tend to be ignorant of any fine details of female anatomy and wouldn't recognize a surgical workover by touch. (For the good ones, so I'm told, you CAN'T tell. I'll have to take the word of those who report that, perhaps taken with a grain of salt.)

Since I've known several gay folks and all of them agree that they feel as though they were "born into the wrong body" - and have known that since childhood, I understand that "living as a xxxxx" is merely being true to yourself. But I guess the anatomical literalists can't see it that way.

I guess I have to ask if the TERF viewpoint is merely rigid thinking about rigidity (or lack thereof?)
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Old 10-08-2019, 03:37 PM   #3
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Re: What would this TURF war look like?

Richard, Your comment reminded me about this contestant on America's Got Talent:- Ray Jessel - The Penis Song Audition







Full Clip:- https://youtu.be/P4_Bxqp2tQU

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Last edited by Uncle Gizmo; 10-08-2019 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Corrected URL
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Old 10-08-2019, 10:10 PM   #4
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Re: What would this TURF war look like?

I remember seeing the show with Mr. Jessel - hilarious. The sad news is that shortly after that performance, he passed away and thus never got to finish the competition. But he was 84 and thus of an age where death, while still not expected with any immediacy, cannot be discounted as an unlikely occurrence.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:01 AM   #5
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Re: What would this TURF war look like?

That's a shame, I would have loved to have seen what he came up with next!

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Old 10-17-2019, 09:47 PM   #6
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Re: What would this TURF war look like?

The women who seem least accepting of a trans-woman tend to be involved in athletic competitions. Their argument, backed by biology, is that a body that has grown to maturity as a male will have many innate advantages over a body that has grown to maturity as a female in many athletic events.

Think of the performance of male weight lifters, sprinters, basketball players, what not. Compare their ability VS their female counterparts. Often the "2nd string" from a male team can dominate if placed against biologically female competitors. This area of argument is one that has made headlines. I can definitely see why a woman would be against what they view as "unfair" advantages.
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Old 10-18-2019, 01:52 AM   #7
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Re: What would this TURF war look like?

Let's say I decided that I was female and not male. I went off and had loads of operations and you couldn't distinguish me from a woman. Now I think that would be remarkable, I would be very satisfied. Next I take up and weight lifting and and as a man I'm mediocre but as a woman I can beat any other woman. So my initial goal was to correct this Terrible Fate, the being a woman being trapped in a man's body. Why would I take advantage of my my male physique to excel at weightlifting?

Of the million and a half transgender people in America, and let's assume half are female and half are male, so that brings the figure down to 750000 male... Of those 750000 how many are likely to be athletic? How many are likely to be in the age group that is suitable, capable of of winning at weightlifting events?

I have no idea but it's a very small number.

It seems unlikely that someone would change their gender just so they could excel at particular sport. It seems more likely that someone change their gender and then realised that they could excel at a particular sport because they had a physiological advantage over other females...

So now you have a mind, a personality, you are an individual who is is in every way female, but they have a male physiology...

What would, why would, anyone take up a sport with such an ambiguous advantage?

Someone who's been through all the trauma and experienced all the hate and raised eyebrows that goes with the decision to change their gender why would they...............

I don't know I've run out of steam I know what I was thinking but now I don't...

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Old 10-18-2019, 07:31 AM   #8
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Re: What would this TURF war look like?

So you don't think someone who's already into weight lifting (or sprinting, or other sports) could also feel they are trapped in the wrong body? Hmm. Odd, I would never believe one would innately impact the other.

Issue I've heard taken is that someone who is already into weightlifting transitions. Or someone who is already into sprinting transitions. I think your horse is wondering why there is a cart in front of it...
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Old 10-18-2019, 02:52 PM   #9
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Re: What would this TURF war look like?

The only sporting case that I recall offhand is tennis player Renee Richards (formerly Richard Raskin or a similar last name). She was very tall, which makes for serving and overhead slamming advantages due to a longer reach. However, in the final analysis, she wasn't THAT good of a tennis player. She was more of a novelty than a true superstar athlete. Tennis is one of those sports where both genders are equally likely to play since both strength AND agility are important factors, so one could imagine a male tennis player who went through full transition and wanted to go on with the game.

As to the issue of cross-gender body-building, you have to consider that if you have a male-to-female conversion, the patient will stop using testosterone and start using a female balance of hormones. In so doing, that person will counteract any musculature developed while still living as a male. In order to get the appropriate secondary sex characteristics, that hormone therapy will have to continue for a long time and all those muscles will atrophy and shrink down to more feminine proportions.
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:57 PM   #10
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Re: What would this TURF war look like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_ View Post
So you don't think someone who's already into weight lifting (or sprinting, or other sports) could also feel they are trapped in the wrong body? Hmm. Odd,
I have no idea how you got that from what I said. It seems very unlikely to me that someone that went through the trauma of having a sex change would do it so that they could win at weightlifting. It seems more likely that once they're gone through the change, they decided to take advantage of it.

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