In case anyone thought racism in America was dead . . . (1 Viewer)

redneckgeek · Sep 24, 2008

My take on the whole racism thing....

There are still individual racists - of all colors - in this country.

Government policy is racist towards whites (see earlier references to affirmative action and the like) - but it fails in so many ways because the policy tends to keep minorities on the government teat.

sandy6078 · Sep 24, 2008

I have no problem helping others except when they won't even begin to help themselves.

pbaldy · Sep 24, 2008

Alisa said:
It has been documented that minorities were offered subprime mortgages even when their credit scores qualified them for standard fixed rate mortgages. It has also been documented that a black defendent is more likely to have the death penalty imposed than a white defendant for an equivalent crime. I don't really want to go into a debate on those points though.

I think that the different perceptions of Obama vs. McCain are more relevant at the moment. I am intrigued that people think Obama doesn't share their values. Here is a man that has been married once, for 20 years, never divorced, and has two children. Isn't that pretty representative of American "values"?

On the other hand, you have a man who has been divorced more than once, and who has admittedly cheated on his wife. Why do people think McCain shares their values? Is it because they also believe in divorce and infidelity?

Funny that you don't want to debate points that you brought up in the first place. As to your values question, you would have to ask someone who cares about either candidate's values. I don't really pay that much attention to marital history, etc. I care about what policies the candidate will push when elected that will impact me and/or the country. I suspect that many (if not most) people feel similarly, and the focus on values you see is media created.

Obama is for bigger government, and I believe big government creates more problems than it solves. That's why I'm against him, not race or "values". Frankly McCain is not much better; as I've said elsewhere, my preferred candidate was Ron Paul.

Rich · Sep 24, 2008

sandy6078 said:
I have no problem helping others except when they won't even begin to help themselves.

You expect those that have been treat as second class citizens (and even that's generous) to be able to suddenly embrace the American dream when they've been denied access to it for so long

Banana · Sep 24, 2008

Alisa said:
It is really not beyond our control, and we already agree with this in principle - that is why we have foster care, that is why we have public schools, and that is why we have food stamps. You don't get to pick your parents, but the promise of America is that you can do anything you want to do regardless of your background as long as you work hard.

I'm sorry, but no. The promise of public education, foster care, food stamps, among with any government-sponsored welfare serves to *enslave* the people. I can tell you that firsthand. It destroys any incentives to improve oneself, and only perpetuate the victimhood.

Rich said:
But you allow the poor to pick up the tab for the "Wall Street" mafia

Go back and read it again. I said: Every tub must stand on its bottom.

Alisa · Sep 24, 2008

sandy6078 said:
I have no problem helping others except when they won't even begin to help themselves.

How is a five year old who is sent to a substandard school supposed to help himself? Should he just teach himself to read?

Alisa · Sep 24, 2008

Banana said:
I'm sorry, but no. The promise of public education, foster care, food stamps, among with any government-sponsored welfare serves to *enslave* the people. I can tell you that firsthand.

Do you care to elaborate?

GaryPanic · Sep 24, 2008

I have just read the trail on this - great (Yank Bashing, and its the Yanks having a go at themselves - lol)

it does not matter who gets in you are going to be fed "crap" from either party
as to racism thats a hard one to view from over the pond - we are probably too removed from the day to day life of Black/white people (and the shades in between)

However some one posted that racism now is less than it was say 20 years ago and one hopes that in another 20 years it will be less so .

I don't think 1 party or another can solve this one ...

the idea of giving scolarships to minorities sounds like a good idea (at the begining) however it will just shoot itself in the foot - If one black girl/boy gets a scolarship but a white persons doesn't isn't that racism in itself (accidently )you are selecting one person over another due to their colour.....defacto racisim - i know the intention was to level the playing field - a better route would be free education or funding schemes that are free from colour selection - grade based

my view - but hey - fun watching the bashing each other .. carry on

Alisa · Sep 24, 2008

pbaldy said:
Funny that you don't want to debate points that you brought up in the first place. As to your values question, you would have to ask someone who cares about either candidate's values. I don't really pay that much attention to marital history, etc. I care about what policies the candidate will push when elected that will impact me and/or the country. I suspect that many (if not most) people feel similarly, and the focus on values you see is media created.

Obama is for bigger government, and I believe big government creates more problems than it solves. That's why I'm against him, not race or "values". Frankly McCain is not much better; as I've said elsewhere, my preferred candidate was Ron Paul.

The republicans have created the biggest government EVER in addition to tripling the national debt in the last 8 years, and you want to give them 4 MORE years? Haven't had enough yet?

sandy6078 · Sep 24, 2008

Why not? The opportunity is available. My daughter is working as a nurses aide in a nursing home to put herslef through college. If she can do it why can't someone else? If you meet requirements (race, income, etc...) you can even take the course to become a nurse's aide for free.

GaryPanic · Sep 24, 2008

"I'm sorry, but no. The promise of public education, foster care, food stamps, among with any government-sponsored welfare serves to *enslave* the people. I can tell you that firsthand"

by making people dependent upon the state therefore the state controls your supply
vote for Party A as we will increase you social benefits /stamps -whatever
howver the public Education i think would not enslave peole if its free for all

redneckgeek · Sep 24, 2008

Banana said:
I'm sorry, but no. The promise of public education, foster care, food stamps, among with any government-sponsored welfare serves to *enslave* the people. I can tell you that firsthand. It destroys any incentives to improve oneself, and only perpetuate the victimhood.

I'll second that. Seen it firsthand many times.

Alisa · Sep 24, 2008

GaryPanic said:
"I'm sorry, but no. The promise of public education, foster care, food stamps, among with any government-sponsored welfare serves to *enslave* the people. I can tell you that firsthand"

by making people dependent upon the state therefore the state controls your supply
vote for Party A as we will increase you social benefits /stamps -whatever
howver the public Education i think would not enslave peole if its free for all

We ARE the government. We CONTROL the government (or at least we should if we weren't too lazy to do it). Do you think everyone should be responsible for educating their own children? Back to the good old pioneer days?

redneckgeek · Sep 24, 2008

Alisa said:
The republicans have created the biggest government EVER in addition to tripling the national debt in the last 8 years, and you want to give them 4 MORE years? Haven't had enough yet?

As I've said MANY times before.... Congress controls spending, the president just signs off. I believe the Dems share just as much, if not more, blame.

Banana · Sep 24, 2008

Alisa said:
Do you care to elaborate?

This would take too long to explain the economic ramifications, so I'll settle for an anecdotal story.

Back in high school, I had three boys in my grade who were eligible for social security supplement. Two of them were 17, the other being 18. They decided to move out of dorm and thus escape the "draconian rule" of the boarding school we attended. They took in an apt, paying for it with taxpayer's money, and because there was so many money and little expenses, they spent it on just about everything: the latest trend in clothings, drugs, porn channel, and some more I probably don't want to know.

They were actually making more than I was making with my part time job at a grocery store and they got to keep it all because they weren't paying any tax on it, while I was already paying my dues to society.

And this isn't an isolated case. This is quite systematic; almost all my peers, whom were also eligible for same benefits, did practically same thing.

Also, if you read up on War on Drugs, it becomes apparent that it does reinforces racism, so it's not just government benefits, but also government's mucking in anybody's lives that ruins us all.

pbaldy · Sep 24, 2008

Alisa said:
The republicans have created the biggest government EVER in addition to tripling the national debt in the last 8 years, and you want to give them 4 MORE years? Haven't had enough yet?

Did you not read what I said?

redneckgeek · Sep 24, 2008

Alisa said:
Do you think everyone should be responsible for educating their own children? Back to the good old pioneer days?

In theory - this would be great. But practically, it wouldn't really work anymore. I'm not sure how we'd get back to that. It would still be a lot better if the government would just back off.

Rich · Sep 24, 2008

Banana said:
Back in high school, I had three boys in my grade who were eligible for social security supplement. Two of them were 17, the other being 18.

White or Black?

georgedwilkinson · Sep 24, 2008

GaryPanic said:
howver the public Education i think would not enslave peole if its free for all

Can anybody go to Oxford for free?

I'd like a free Harvard or MIT education.

Alisa · Sep 24, 2008

pbaldy said:
Did you not read what I said?

You said that "Obama is for big government" and that is why you are against him. And you also said that McCain is a little better. By my measure, McCain is not a little better, he is far far worse, being from the party that has got us into this disaster. Why anyone thinks McCain would give us a smaller govt than Obama completely baffles me.

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