What's your opinions on the IS situation? (1 Viewer)

ConnorGiles · Oct 7, 2014

Have kept up to date with this for a while now - and i have a lot of opinions on the matter but i would like to hear your stand points on this matter to further clarify my knowledge and understanding on the matter and maybe even start a discussion

Thanks

Kind Regards

Connor

ConnorGiles · Oct 7, 2014

Oh and also how do you think we are handling the situation?

scott-atkinson · Oct 7, 2014

Sadly the West, namely America, provided weapons to the Liberation Militants in Syria fighting against the Assad regime, a sub faction of that Militant group is now IS and are using those very same weapons to commit ethnic cleansing in the name of religion, and are beheading Westerners...

The moral, here is be careful who you get into bed with...

scott-atkinson · Oct 7, 2014

The combined forces both Middle Eastern and Western will have to put Boots on the ground supported by air to defeat this ban of upstarts...

And then of course Jihadi John, will come back to the UK and be a big Rap Star, and star in a video with Pitbull...

ConnorGiles · Oct 7, 2014

Interesting Hypothesis scott - I do agree indeed we will need to put our foot down with the situation as the longer it is left tiptoeing around the fact that we cannot afford for them to get any bigger than they already are.

Especially due to the fact turkey is not under serious threat of being invaded as they are "Enemies at the Border" (ISIS flags have been raised just 6 miles away from the turkish border.

And although the slander David Cameron has gotten over how he has handled the situation with British hostages , i think he handled it extremely well by not giving into demands and handing over slanderous amounts of money for them to obtain bigger weapons over the black market. (there has been reports they are using the black market in the papers by the way not my opinion). Although i wouldnt like to be in the position of the prisoners family as it would be devistating and my condolences are always with them , David did the right thing in my books and deprived ISIS of their much needed source of income.

Plus Scott we cant blame ourselves for arming them because without us arming them the Assad regime would also still be at large. which would add just one more problem to the ever growing list of problems our countries are now facing.

Thanks for your input Scott - i must say the last comment made me laugh a fair bit.

ConnorGiles · Oct 7, 2014

And yet another problem arises that if we withdraw our troops from afghan to fight ISIS the Taliban are more than likely going to join them and cause a ever growing threat throughout the middle eastern regions

Brianwarnock · Oct 7, 2014

Bush and his poodle Blair opened a real can of worms when they got rid of Saddam, we have no idea how it is all going to end.

Brian

ConnorGiles · Oct 7, 2014

Indeed Brian - if i'm 100% honest its been that way for a long time (UK bending over to the US) ; as long as there is religion in my opinion - wars will follow.

Brianwarnock · Oct 7, 2014

The desire for power is what causes wars, religion is often the excuse or uniting factor for each side.

Brian

ConnorGiles · Oct 7, 2014

"War is were the old and bitter send the young and stupid to die" a very good quote from Grand Theft Auto game which surprisingly i agree with to some extent. The desire for power has always been a benefactor behind wars due to the "My Countries Better" remarks and the arms races in the past. Power is what people strive to achieve for all the wrong reasons, when will people learn that power is more of a burden than they see it to be.

Vassago · Oct 7, 2014

Greed. All wars go back to greed. As Brian said, they can use religion as an excuse for this greed, but in the end, it's still greed.

Religion is just a good manipulating tool to get people on your bandwagon.

MarkK · Oct 7, 2014

hometeam bias fallacy

The US commits way more extra-judicial "beheadings" with drones than IS ever could. They may sometimes kill actual enemies, but lets face it, we, in our democracies have allowed our governments to wage aggressive war--and to kill people abroad in the hundreds of thousands, in countries where no war has been declared or where war was not justified--with impunity.

Why have we not put our leaders on trial for their crimes? And how do we the people, in our democracies, escape culpability for the murders our leaders commit, if we do nothing?

So for all that, it is convenient as hell to our power structure that some weak, extremist group theatrically beheads a few white guys. They are the bad guys. We are the good guys.

Our leaders love IS. They need IS. So IS exists.

Steve R. · Oct 8, 2014

Obama facilitated the rise of ISIS by destabilizing the Middle East through a variety of covert and not so covert actions.

Libya has descended into chaos.

Yemen, I understand, is now falling apart.

Syria, Obama has provided covert aid to so-called rebels, one of those rebel groups being ISIS. Now Obama wants to supply so-called vetted rebels to fight ISIS. But why would they fight ISIS if their mission is to overthrow Assad? Obama should have allied the US with Assad to defeat ISIS.

Turkey, is on the side of ISIS. Turkey has a long history of human rights abuses against Christians, Kurds, and Armenians. ISIS is now doing Turkey's dirty work of ethnic cleansing.

Cyprus, in 1974 Turkey invaded Cyprus and took over part of the island. The US never responded. While it would appear that the Turkish invasion of Cyprus is minimally relevant to the current situation, it isn't as it is another example of a US ally that is not really an ally. Also it demonstrates Turkey's quest to expand its territories and explains its avoidance for attacking ISIS.

MarkK · Oct 8, 2014

To talk about the US destabilization of the middle east and not mention George W. Bush or Dick "Shotgun" Cheney is dramatic and willful misdirection on your part. You have to have your head pretty far up your--ahh, I mean--pretty deep in the sand to suggest that Obama . . .
Wait, what's this? Obama should have allied with Assad? Oh, frick you got me. You're just trolling this thread aren't you? You're not actually this stupid. Phew, clever. Yeah, you got me.

Steve R. · Oct 8, 2014

MarkK said:
To talk about the US destabilization of the middle east and not mention George W. Bush or Dick "Shotgun" Cheney is dramatic and willful misdirection on your part. You have to have your head pretty far up your--ahh, I mean--pretty deep in the sand to suggest that Obama . . .
Wait, what's this? Obama should have allied with Assad? Oh, frick you got me. You're just trolling this thread aren't you? You're not actually this stupid. Phew, clever. Yeah, you got me.

Blame Bush and company set the stage. Obama kept the play going.

Obama has been President for six years now. Obama now owns these issues. Recently, Obama condemned Putin for supporting Russian thugs in the Ukraine calling Putin's actions illegal. Well Obama is doing the same with Syria by violating Syrian sovereignty through covert aid to Syrian thugs. Obama is and has been duplicitous. Even the normally pro-Obama Washington Post is beging to question Obama's leadership. U.S. air campaign against Islamic State isn’t achieving its aims

During WWII the West allied itself with Joseph Stalin, who also attacked Poland. So why not make the same type of deal with Assad to fight ISIS? Assad has an army and air force, consequently he could have initiated attacks against ISIS. Apparently our supposed ally Turkey refuses to attack ISIS for the reasons previously explained. Obama has yet to insist that Turkey act as a member of Obama's sham coalition.

Instead of attempting to work with Assad, it seems that Obama was secretly attempting to recruit Iran to fight ISIS. Evidently, the Iranians reject that concept. The fact that Obama even considered that far-fetched option points to his incompetence.

Bladerunner · Oct 8, 2014

if we , the USA and other nations, had left about 25,000 troops in Iraq, There would be no IS except maybe in Syria.

MarkK · Oct 8, 2014

The United States under Bush/Cheney waged an illegal war of aggression in Iraq in 2003, and created the conditions under which ISIS arose.

Here's the narrative: there is danger so let's invade, which creates danger, which validates the narrative. And who profits from this manufactured outcome?

Not you and me, not the people.

ConnorGiles · Oct 8, 2014

Vassago said:
Greed. All wars go back to greed. As Brian said, they can use religion as an excuse for this greed, but in the end, it's still greed.

Religion is just a good manipulating tool to get people on your bandwagon.

I agree completely - The most source of greed comes from oil though - i bet if you trace any major war such as afghan, Iraq, Uganda so forth there was oil discovered there at some point (Then suddenly its about helping the people).

ConnorGiles · Oct 8, 2014

Re: hometeam bias fallacy

MarkK said:
The US commits way more extra-judicial "beheadings" with drones than IS ever could. They may sometimes kill actual enemies, but lets face it, we, in our democracies have allowed our governments to wage aggressive war--and to kill people abroad in the hundreds of thousands, in countries where no war has been declared or where war was not justified--with impunity.

Why have we not put our leaders on trial for their crimes? And how do we the people, in our democracies, escape culpability for the murders our leaders commit, if we do nothing?

So for all that, it is convenient as hell to our power structure that some weak, extremist group theatrically beheads a few white guys. They are the bad guys. We are the good guys.

Yes i agree with this also we have done so much in name of greed and power that it has blinded our judgement on most situations - we do really need someone with a decent head on their shoulders to come to power and show all former leaders of the atrocities they have done.

Our leaders love IS. They need IS. So IS exists.

As for this i know where your standpoint is , but i dont totally agree with the fact our leaders love IS. Because we don't but they are the current enemy of the states for the time being - give it another few years and im sure some other group will arise in "Terrorist Acts".

ConnorGiles · Oct 8, 2014

Steve R. said:
Obama facilitated the rise of ISIS by destabilizing the Middle East through a variety of covert and not so covert actions.

Libya has descended into chaos.

Yemen, I understand, is now falling apart.

Syria, Obama has provided covert aid to so-called rebels, one of those rebel groups being ISIS. Now Obama wants to supply so-called vetted rebels to fight ISIS. But why would they fight ISIS if their mission is to overthrow Assad? Obama should have allied the US with Assad to defeat ISIS.

Turkey, is on the side of ISIS. Turkey has a long history of human rights abuses against Christians, Kurds, and Armenians. ISIS is now doing Turkey's dirty work of ethnic cleansing.

Cyprus, in 1974 Turkey invaded Cyprus and took over part of the island. The US never responded. While it would appear that the Turkish invasion of Cyprus is minimally relevant to the current situation, it isn't as it is another example of a US ally that is not really an ally. Also it demonstrates Turkey's quest to expand its territories and explains its avoidance for attacking ISIS.

Its funny you should say this because i read in the paper this morning that they are blaming Turkey for letting ISIS take the borders without warning (due to the fact there were no scout reports or anything they just appeared there).

Markk you will find or even you may already know that the media is highly influenced by the government to show what they want you to see. i wouldnt be surprised if there havent already been movements of the IS in Europe and the US but they wont show this as this would unsettle the people and cause panic.

as ive said in previous comments we need someone to come into power will a good head on his/her shoulders and show the former leaders their mistakes and bring justice to those who deserve it.

What's your opinions on the IS situation? (1 Viewer)

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