traditional customer loyalty... (1 Viewer)

since my previous rant was quickly discarded from this forum, maybe this one will spark more interesting and playful discussion....

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/adam...n-algorithm-activity-6616847483433734144-KhN7

How many of you guys here have ACTUAL loyal customers that you know understand you, and you understand them? That's priceless, and machines will never be able to replicate *that*!

So when you rant publicly on LinkedIn and other public platforms like this, you feel that future employers will look upon this with a favorable view? I have read that hiring authorities will scan social media accounts prior to hiring.

I know this sounds a bit like "The pot calling the kettle black" and you would be right. Except I am not on LinkedIn, Facebook or looking for work.

AccessBlaster said:

So when you rant publicly on LinkedIn and other public platforms like this, you feel that future employers will look upon this with a favorable view? I have read that hiring authorities will scan social media accounts prior to hiring.

I know this sounds a bit like the "The pot calling the kettle black" and you would be right. Except I am not on LinkedIn, Facebook or looking for work.

Click to expand...

I'm not necessarily looking for work, but I AM applying for positions. And you'd surprised man, that I actually *do* get responses that are positive, although they are not in large numbers. Eventually what will probably end up happening, is when corporate America finally gets to the point where it's automated almost everything and everyone out of existence, they'll be looking for answers from someone else. Perhaps that person will be me? Highly doubtful, but I would relish in that day if it comes to pass! Oh how I would love it.

And yes, employers DO scan everything they can. I'm well aware of that. They've done that for a long while. LinkedIn is the only one they can see of mine, as my facebook account is set to private. You should read some of the emails and letters I've written to executives over the last 2 months that are of a very polite nature. It turns heads for sure, even from a 2 bit nobody like me. I'm willing to bet that people who do nothing more all day long than try to protect their jobs by engaging in political non-sense will eventually cave into people like us when they realize they're starting to fall apart. It's inevitable. If you're huge, you're not small. If there are too many people working in an organization, the common motivator is job protection. It's as sure as death. Can't avoid it.

Might I also add that when I post this sort of thing on LinkedIn, what happens everytime is a situation where I lose 1 or 2 followers immediately but gain 1 or 2 other ones who happen to see what I've written. So everytime it seems to balance itself out. Kind of like Neo and Agent Smith!

Blaster,

Might I add that it wasn't more than 5 minutes after that post of mine appeared on LinkedIn, that I lost 1 follower. But as I just stated, that happens everytime. And it's followed up by new views from people who love the post.

vba_php said:

Blaster,

Might I add that it wasn't more than 5 minutes after that post of mine appeared on LinkedIn, that I lost 1 follower. But as I just stated, that happens everytime. And it's followed up by new views from people who love the post.

Click to expand...

Its not the followers I would be concern with. Sometimes you come across as being persecuted unjustly, I don't think that's going fly with corporate America. I could be wrong.

AccessBlaster said:

Its not the followers I would be concern with. Sometimes you come across as being persecuted unjustly, I don't think that's going fly with corporate America. I could be wrong.

Click to expand...

what do you mean by "persecuted unjustly"? You mean I'm giving off an aura and making people think that I'm posting these things because I'm being treated unfairly and ignored by corporations? If that's what you mean, that's not the reason why. And if people perceive it that way, then I would assume if they really have any curiosity about what it really means and want to expand their mindsets, they will experience what so many other members here on the forum have experienced by PMing me: a thorough explanation about how what I do is not a put down to anyone, but rather a great opportunity for everybody to create, expand, become more intelligent, and discover things (especially in tech and software) that we never knew existed (both in software and about ourselves). Now you might ask those people here who have talked with me privately to be sure I'm right about that, but I have a sneaking suspicion that most of them realize that my purpose is indeed positive if people are willing to put in the work and look at things outside of the narrowness of mind that usually tags along with human beings from any background.

What do you think? Agree? Disagree? To each his own....but I'm telling you, in the end it just might be my way that ends up in victory. and as a Christian myself, that would mirror exactly what is predicted to happen in the future: the poor man's victory over the man who proclaims himself to be God and has every material thing possible (referring of course to Christ's victory over the man of lawlessness). But like you say, "I could be wrong".

Adam,

And if people perceive it that way, then I would assume if they really have any curiosity

Click to expand...

Your problem is that first impressions can kill curiosity. You forget that in a world that more and more tends towards instant gratification that you have ONE and ONLY one chance to make a good first impression. That kind of post comes across as "holier than thou" with respect to the programmers who set up that algorithm. Maybe you COULD compose better programs than they did. We don't know. But if you throw lots of shade when you talk, people in hiring positions would stay away in droves. That would be because they (rightfully) would wonder how long it would take you to throw shade their way. You don't see it because you don't stop to think about how your post will be seen.

The_Doc_Man said:

Adam,

Your problem is that first impressions can kill curiosity. You forget that in a world that more and more tends towards instant gratification that you have ONE and ONLY one chance to make a good first impression. That kind of post comes across as "holier than thou" with respect to the programmers who set up that algorithm. Maybe you COULD compose better programs than they did. We don't know. But if you throw lots of shade when you talk, people in hiring positions would stay away in droves. That would be because they (rightfully) would wonder how long it would take you to throw shade their way. You don't see it because you don't stop to think about how your post will be seen.

Click to expand...

I think I would probably agree Richard. But if you are indeed right, then the damage I've done cannot be reversed. And if that is true, I probably don't have much to worry about in the future because it's inevitable that people move on and forget the past. Things are changing so fast in this day in age, I seriously doubt that anything I've done will have any lingering effects on me or the people that read it. but again, I could be wrong! as far as composing programs are concerned, are all of you guys here aware of the fact that I'm an absolute *horrible* programmer? I couldn't write a damn algorithm to save my life! Now if I studied them, more than likely I would come to understand them and do very well. for instance, I read through this regarding AES:

https://www.commonlounge.com/discussion/e32fdd267aaa4240a4464723bc74d0a5

and had a pretty tough time following, although i was able to capture some of it. but to the point, I still truly believe it's up in the air about whether I do good in the world or do bad. Same is true for people throughout my entire life that have addressed my "approachability". some say they feel threatened and are scared to death to approach me, others say I'm "magnetic" and they want to be around me. also, same goes for the senior citizens....some are put off by supposed "arrogance" and some absolutely love talking to me because I intently listen to every word they say and have the utmost respect for them and the knowledge they can offer me as someone who will carry on what they accomplished in their life. But how can I please everybody? Not possible. Maybe I should run for president? All presidents have haters and lovers....yeah right....I wouldn't touch the political world with a 10 foot pole! The ignorance that saturates that environment has damaged the world since the beginning of time (before you guys call me out on that one, I'm not referring to ALL, ok?)

as predicted, my follower count has risen back up to prior levels. that's off topic. ON topic...hey Richard, are you part of a church down there in the buyou? I just had a discussion about the coming onslaught of artificial intelligence from the corporate world. the members of my church here in Iowa City have been preparing to protect themselves from that inevitability for quite some time now. Most people there are extremely loyal to each other and they've built trust amongst themselves, inside and outside of business and the concept of making money. That's not a bad idea. I would say they're being pretty wise as far as protecting themselves from the ruthless monsters that run this world. Do you have any lasting relationships in your church Richard? (I mean, if you attend)

I seriously doubt that anything I've done will have any lingering effects on me or the people that read it. but again, I could be wrong!

Click to expand...

Personally speaking I would not use LinkedIn as my personal soapbox, rather I would showcase my resume and work history only. But then again I am 62 years old and have been working at the same place for the past 18 years, admittedly I am out of the loop.

AccessBlaster said:

Personally speaking I would not use LinkedIn as my personal soapbox, rather I would showcase my resume and work history only. But then again I am 62 years old and have been working at the same place for the past 18 years, admittedly I am out of the loop.

Click to expand...

oh I wouldn't necessarily say that my friend (or enemy, whichever you prefer). I'm getting very mixed responses to what I'm doing. Again, maybe a presidential run is in order for me? LOL.

If you were to search long enough in posts in this site, you would find that I am not a member of any church. That is all I will say on this subject at this time. There is another thread where such discussions are more common. (Hint: in the opening page of this site, where you find various top-10 statistics lists, the most popular thread will stand out.)

If you think you can protect yourself from the onslaught of AI in the corporate world, think again. Mom-and-pop shops can probably get away with some of it, but AI is often insidious. It will creep in whether they like it or not. It just might be disguised.

For instance, simple retail transactions... Credit cards are a way to keep too many people from being in the chain of money-handling. Shops that only take cash will find themselves in an ever-dwindling market. Cash (actual paper money) won't go away, but it will become more and more difficult to get as fewer places require it and the "supply and demand" cycle leans towards "low demand."

Do you know why ATMs were created? Because in the medium-to-long run they are cheaper than the salaries and benefits of having human bank tellers. Banks, like any other business, look for ways to improve their bottom line. That's one way to do it. Even having automated kiosks INSIDE THE BANK is a way to save money long-term. And that is a form of AI.

But then, did you ever stop to realize that YOU are in a business that does away with labor? The use of Access to manage an inventory, even for a small business owner, means that they don't need to use as many people to do continuous stock checking. They can look up stuff faster to find quantity on hand, location, and even appearance. Which means maybe one or two fewer floor staff members to help customers find what they wanted. Just a quick lookup on the store terminal and they can find it fast.

It's a matter of viewpoint, Adam, and I fully admit that your viewpoint - to dread the coming of automation - is commonplace. It is also myopic. AI has ALREADY ARRIVED.

Sort of like the old joke of the guy who asks a woman if she would sleep with him for a million dollars and she says, "Sure." Then in the next breath he says, "Well, would you sleep with me for a dollar?" She says, "What kind of cheap ***** do you think I am?" To which he replies, "Oh, we've established the fact. Now we are just haggling price."

AI is here. It is no longer about "whether", but "how much".

Those are pretty good points richard. And yes i know why atms were created. As far as me being in the same business i would have to challenge u on that one. Never have i ever written an app in any language or platform that eliminated a job....at least not directly. Now whether management used it to exploit the possibilty that they could drop employees in favor of my tools? Maybe but i have no control over whether management personnel who buy my stuff will use it to do that kind of damage. If they care bout whats right they wont do it even if it is blatantly obvious that it CAN be done. Thats why my talk is meant to encourage ppl to create new and differentiated products in the marketplace. If im right and theyre currently working in the corporate world, they just mite need that knowledge in the future, especially if theyre currently doing redundant or pattern-based tasks. Im sure u know what im hinting at....being as wise as you are?

Richard,

I'm not as wise as you, but may I point out to you to *please* be careful with phrases like this

AI is here. It is no longer about "whether", but "how much".

Click to expand...

If a newbie with sensitive ears or eyes is reading this thread and they saw that, it could possibly deter them from getting into the business and exploring new ideas! They might read that and figure "well I have no chance". We don't want to instill that kind of mindset in people who have a passion for this, do we? I'd say you and I both, in our back and forth bickering about stuff, can fall victim to saying things that can be misinterpreted by people who don't understand advanced concepts or off-topic things like we're talking about in this thread. So let us tread lightly around here! (and I'll try to do better as well). By the way, encouraging people to do this work I'm sure will give them a lot confidence to build a life for themselves, and not to mention some wealth even. But remember, they are just starting out (as am I to some degree) and they are not even close to having the luxuries that you probably have with that uber retirement package you're getting from the navy. Right? I'm well aware that government retirement plans are outrageous in terms of their generosity.

Adam, regarding an "uber" retirement package:

I was always a contractor, never a government employee. You have badly mistaken ideas about government retirement based on what the civilians used to tell us. (And since they sometimes tried to recruit us for civil service, they showed us the numbers!) I get nothing from the Navy these days except the same protection of our borders that they afford to all of us. My retirement is social security plus an annuity from what I saved during my working years in a 401k account plus a little bit of stock (and I DO mean little) that I inherited from my mother.

As to my comment about AI:

I'll put it like this. If some young wet-behind-the-ears person is deterred from a computing career by the particular statement you quoted, I don't want them in the business anyway. If that mild a statement is any kind of deterrent, they were just dilettantes or poseurs, afraid that they might actually have to work or use their intellect for a living.

If that sounds callous, tough. We have seen folks who come here with problems so deep-seated that no amount of advice would or could pull them out of the mental quicksand they have created for themselves by kiting through classes and then wondering why they are failing first-year computer courses. Yeah, that probably sounds very harsh, but you know I'm right.

The difference between us is that I know when I can help and when I should stay away because I don't want to accuse someone of being a blithering idiot. You actually HAVE offered backhanded and ill-advised statements to some folks who deserved better.

Fortunately, we don't often get folks who are total information black holes. But when we do, we still try to help. We just know that sometimes our best will not be good enough.

Now whether management used it to exploit the possibilty that they could drop employees in favor of my tools? Maybe but i have no control over whether management personnel who buy my stuff will use it to do that kind of damage. If they care bout whats right they wont do it even if it is blatantly obvious that it CAN be done.

Click to expand...

Which is exactly why I believe you have no appreciation of business reality. If they care about what's right, they will keep their business running so that they don't have to lay off everyone. But if that means they have to let one person go, or if that means they can't hire another person even if that person needs the job, that is the way business works. When someone says, "It's just business" they might be telling the truth rather than making an excuse. Going into debt in order to appear to be "Mr. Nice Guy" is ALWAYS a losing proposition.

The_Doc_Man said:

If that sounds callous, tough. We have seen folks who come here with problems so deep-seated that no amount of advice would or could pull them out of the mental quicksand they have created for themselves by kiting through classes and then wondering why they are failing first-year computer courses. Yeah, that probably sounds very harsh, but you know I'm right.

Click to expand...

OK you win. I have no choice but to agree. Your statement is wiser than mine. I just had a conversation with 2 veteran computer science department professors last week regarding students who join the program in hopes that they can slide through with no knowledge and hop into the business just to earn a high salary and get job security. and of course then they went on to give a million examples of kids skipping classes the entire semester, only to show up at the last class, take the test, fail it completely, and move on because it's cheaper to fail the course than go through other options.

The_Doc_Man said:

Which is exactly why I believe you have no appreciation of business reality. If they care about what's right, they will keep their business running so that they don't have to lay off everyone. But if that means they have to let one person go, or if that means they can't hire another person even if that person needs the job, that is the way business works. When someone says, "It's just business"

Click to expand...

I would suggest you rethink this one. no, I'm not being a smartass. I have no appreciation of business reality!? oh come now....I know exactly how the sick place works. same concept applies to successful entrepreneurs that grow their businesses to the point where they are literally forced to be bought out by the big boys because they are becoming too much of a threat. it's inevitable. But are you not aware that there are many different kinds of managers out there? when I say: "if they care about what's right", what I'm referring to are the types of managers that prefer employing people and using human interaction and traditional customer service and relationship interfacing over total automation for the purpose of cost reduction. I'm sure you're also aware that BOTH methods have existed forever, as well as both viewpoints from managers. and I would assume both methods will continue to exist until the day the world ends. There's absolutely nothing wrong with either view I simply am in favor of more employment opportunities over reduction of costs at any consequence. If you don't agree, then that's fine. That's what make this country so great. You and I - an elephant and a donkey - a GOP and a dem - a hetro person and an [alternativve] person - man/woman - small business/large business. you name it, the diversity if out there, everywhere. and if it can be harnessed, the country can still remain great.

as for your retirement, I don't think you ever clarified what kind of retirement package you received, did you? I don't remember you ever mentioning you were a contractor your whole life. I just assumed you were receiving those massive benefits that military personell and public employees receive after they finish their service. my mistake I spose.

I know exactly how the sick place works.

Click to expand...

Then you understand that the toughest, but most necessary, part of business is knowing how many - and which - people you can employ without crashing the budget. You can choose to resist automation and hire lots of minimum wage persons just because you can, but that is not a growth path for most businesses.

Admittedly, in the fast food industry, that sometimes works. In restaurants where you employ all of your wait staff and support staff as part-time on a short enough schedule to avoid having to pay minimum benefits, that sometimes works. But then the question is whether such people have enough money to get by each week. And there are such things as temporary or permanent sales clerks who make barely more than minimum wage or perhaps they are on commission. Of course, the latter situation (commission) is one of those self-fulfilling prophecies. If you can sell, you will prosper. If you are a true lump on a log, you will starve. But the business will survive you in that case.

If you don't understand what I am saying, then you run a business that will be just another blip in the statistics of business. Such as the one that perennially has shown that 80% of all startup businesses fail within the first 5 years of their existence. That one comes from the Harvard Business Review from a few years ago.

Want to talk about traditional customer service and human interaction? See Sears, Roebuck and Co.; see CompUSA; watch what happens to J.C. Penney's in the coming couple of years. Can't say for sure in other areas, but Macy's in our area has been downsizing. Mervyn's is a gone pecan, too. Or let's look at Blockbuster Video, which has been supplanted by Red Box, Inc.

The problem is that as the younger generation ages to adulthood, they have grown up in an instant gratification society where you don't go to the store, you just go online and order what you want. Then for a buck or two more, next-day delivery. If the order is big enough, FREE rapid delivery.

This actually ties in with the other thread about "big boys" and "who's gonna provide me with service?" Have you ever looked at the AT&T cable web site? 95% automated, even to the point that they can reach out and query the gateway router for recent diagnostic logs. But if you have something that can't be answered from that automation, I assure you that you WILL wait. Their web-based AI is limited by their experience and the skill of the web designer. And there aren't enough technically qualified people to go around, even if you out-source to another country.

One problem (among many) is that older people don't want to be retrained and don't want to adapt to this rapidly changing technological society. But Omar Khayyam's poem includes the line, "The moving finger of fate writes, and having writ, moves on." Not only can't you ever "go home again" but you can't "return to your childhood again."

I doubt you will see my point and I doubt I will convince you. But you can either try to selectively embrace AI as a factor, or you can be like the little Dutch boy who held his finger in the dike to stave off the flood. (Note to all: I correctly spelled "dike" in this case because the other spelling means something else entirely. Sorry, that's me being a touch wicked.)

The_Doc_Man said:

Want to talk about traditional customer service and human interaction? See Sears, Roebuck and Co.; see CompUSA; watch what happens to J.C. Penney's in the coming couple of years. Can't say for sure in other areas, but Macy's in our area has been downsizing. Mervyn's is a gone pecan, too. Or let's look at Blockbuster Video, which has been supplanted by Red Box, Inc.

Click to expand...

Sears could have been Amazon, Blockbuster could have been Netflix, Kodak could of evolved into Photoshop but they didn't. They resisted change.

Successful business model must make their shareholders money while moving in a forward direction, which could very well mean automation.

Teach the grandkids how to program robotics or repair them, because that will be the future.

Richard,

I'm responding to your last post before I check on all the other threads I'm assigned to here because I want to make sure you're not part of a group of people your age that are not projecting themselves as "helpful" to people in the younger generation like me. Don't take offense to this and don't call me a smartass. It's a neutral point of view I'm going to show....

I've talked to countless senior citizens over my short tenure on earth that, when the subject of AI and technological advancement comes up, seem to enjoy it when I mention that it can be damaging to younger generations if it's improperly used. For instance, I've talked to seniors about the issue many times and I've gotten many reactions from them. Everything from big smiles, to statements such as "that's life", to what seems like a general enjoyment about it, to a lot of other reactions I can't remember.

Your last post makes it seem like you welcome the fact that the "underground" or "illegitimate" people of the world are going to use it to damage economic growth potential and eliminate employment opportunities for young people. That's not what you meant to look like, is it? Because that's what is DOES look like.

What is your view on the younger generation and their potential? Do you care about them? Are you interested in helping them learn and grow? Again, from a previous post in this exact thread, it seems like you're negative about the issue. I'm well aware of the fact that almost everyone on earth, especially in business, fights every single day to "make it" and not be looked at as a failure. I'm sure you went through the same crap most of your life too. And it's no secret that a lot of people, especially business people, reward themselves with extreme amounts of materialistic garbage and riches when they do find success because they feel they "earned it" or "deserve it" because of "what I've been through". I've also heard that a million times from people who found success after struggling for years trying to get something going for themselves. And dare I say again, like I've said so many times on this board of ours, Steve Jobs is classic example of this. I'm sure you know his story? If you don't, the gist of it is:

*He created the company and founded the innovative ideas that took it to initial heights.
*The greedy executives and other hot heads at the company exploited him, used him, and kicked his little a$$ out when they thought they could steal the ideas and run with it for massive profits.
*When they found out the weren't smart enough to run the place after years of trying, they brought Steve back to save the place from failure.
*And of course Steve did what he does best and turned the place around. Changed the logo from colored to solid grey, created the iPod and everything is history from there.
*And of course, I believe, Jobs got his revenge on those morons who ousted him before and took all the manufacturing jobs over to China, bought the cheapest labor possible, jacked apple's product prices up to extreme levels, and gained popularity as the "coolest" player in the marketplace. And boy did he hugely profit from that gig! He bought a mansion (I think), a huge yacht and probably a lot of other things.

I like giving my take on his life because I love his innovative ideas, his intelligence and his ability to relate to almost anybody technical, regardless of their disipline. The only part of his life that I don't like is the fact that he was a complete a$$hole some of time when he wanted to get his way and get his point across. He was also known for ruling his company with an iron hand. There's nothing wrong with that method, but a lot of times it can be really be offputting to employees. Maybe not back during the time that he was doing it, but almost certainly in this day in age it would be! and it would probably get you sued in some scenarios! I personally think that's a sad thing....that our society has become so "politically correct", that it's not acceptable anymore to get mad and bicker about things in order to get something done. That is part of the process, and if it's done right, great things can come from it.

So....what do you think about what I've said? Please tell me you don't fall into the group of senior citizens that are "bad" and that don't care about what younger people can do for you....and that is, to carry on and further the things that you experienced in your day and produce great things that are built on the foundations that you laid during your time. Doesn't all this make sense? If it doesn't then we might be at a point that is similar to what I've experienced when talking to narrow minded priests and pastors: "Lets agree to disagree". If that is where we are, then that's fine. I've learned to accept it because it's so common place in this world. But I hope you understand what I've said. Tell me what you think. I can talk forever, if you want to.