Has NASA found (potentially) extraterrestrial life? (1 Viewer)

[Mike375]

Or to point out another, did Judas hang himself of dash his bowels out with a sword? It all depends on which text you are reading at the time.

But is the basic story right and just the method open to debate or translation.

 

[Mike375]

No, the odds are 1 in 1 because if youu had not been born on Earth, then "you" would not have been "you". Just as the odds of you having been born of your mother and father, as opposed to having been born of another set, are 1 in 1 since genetics play an absolute role in your conception and a large role in everything else you are.

Try another way.

If another solar system is discovered tomorrow what are the odds that there will be a planet like earth, that is, the right size, distance from its sun etc.

 

[ChipperT]

But is the basic story right and just the method open to debate or translation.

I have no idea. I was not there nor have I found any independent corraborating evidence.

 

[ChipperT]

The Judas story reminds me of when I first started questioning the Christian beliefs. I was sitting in church listening to a Baptist preacher give a sermon. He stated that people can prove anything they want from the Bible if they take pieces out of context. He used as an example the verse that says that Judas went out and hanged himself, coupled with another verse elsewhere that says "Go thou, and do likewise" ,"proving" that the Bible condones suicide. His point was to be very careful not to take things out of context. Very good advice indeed! But then I started listening to his sermons and realizing that is exactly what he and all the other preachers I heard were doing - taking small passages and "proving" their religious points from them.

Now, by that time I had read the Bible from cover to cover quite a few times with the blinders on that had been provided from my upbringing as a Southern Baptist. But the next time I read it as if it were the first time I had ever seen it or heard of it. The problems with the two different Gods, purported to be the same one, of the old and new testaments, the lack of cohesiveness of the Gospels, the sheer fantasies of Isaiah and John the Revelator, and so much more jumped out at me and slapped me in the face. It was still years before I was ready to accept for myself that the Bible was a compilation of folk tales instead of the Absolutely Accurate and Unalterable Word of God. It took even more years before I became what I am now... a true agnostic. I don't believe in the God of either bible. I don't know if there is anything like a supreme being or beings. I reserve my judgement on that because there are just so many things unknowable at this point, such as the origin of the universe, where did that "origin" come from, etc. I have an open mind but a skeptical one that does not accept any of man's present religions as fact.

 

[ChipperT]

Try another way.

If another solar system is discovered tomorrow what are the odds that there will be a planet like earth, that is, the right size, distance from its sun etc.

The chances are 100% that it would be the same (but close to 0% chance that we could discover it tomorrow) since by it's very definition there is only one solar system, that is the one we live in, since Sol is the name of our sun (star). Another planetary system around another star would bear another name.

 

[Mike375]

The Judas story reminds me of when I first started questioning the Christian beliefs. I was sitting in church listening to a Baptist preacher give a sermon. He stated that people can prove anything they want from the Bible if they take pieces out of context. He used as an example the verse that says that Judas went out and hanged himself, coupled with another verse elsewhere that says "Go thou, and do likewise" ,"proving" that the Bible condones suicide. His point was to be very careful not to take things out of context. Very good advice indeed! But then I started listening to his sermons and realizing that is exactly what he and all the other preachers I heard were doing - taking small passages and "proving" their religious points from them

I have seen similar with "born agains" I know.

I seem to remember that someone who is the real Jesus follower has a duty to spread the word. Is that correct?

 

[ChipperT]

I have seen similar with "born agains" I know.

I seem to remember that someone who is the real Jesus follower has a duty to spread the word. Is that correct?

You bet. Jesus's supposed last word on Earth was "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." which true proselytes take as the mandate to "save" everyone. Been there, done that. I was a true "Jesus Freak" in the 70's so I know. I wonder why they leave out the "every creature" part and don't preach to cows and bedbugs...

 

[Mike375]

The chances are 100% that it would be the same (but close to 0% chance that we could discover it tomorrow) since by it's very definition there is only one solar system, that is the one we live in, since Sol is the name of our sun (star). Another planetary system around another star would bear another name.

Lets not worry about what it is called.

We will assume tomorrow there are 100 systems discovered whereby planets orbit a star.

1) How much money would you bet that 1 of the 100 has a planet with a setup like earth, that is, where life as we know could happily exist

2) How much money would you bet that none of the 100 systems have a setup like earth etc.

 

[Mike375]

You bet. Jesus's supposed last word on Earth was "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." which true proselytes take as the mandate to "save" everyone. Been there, done that. I was a true "Jesus Freak" in the 70's so I know. I wonder why they leave out the "every creature" part and don't preach to cows and bedbugs...

I sold insurance for most of life, up until a couple of years ago. The medical specialists and dentists that I know (insurance clients) who are 'born agains" were extremely keen to convert me from a believer in telepathy type matters and "something out there" to the born again. They figured an insurance salesman was ideal for the job.

The one part of the "born again" where I have never got a reasonable answer from these blokes is...God knew before I was born whether I would go to Hell or Heaven...so if I can change the outcome then He was not all knowing....

So why do anything about it.

but assuming for the exercise that the Bible is basically accurate, to me it portrays a god of limited power and knowledge.

 

[Galaxiom]

One hundred planetary systems is not a statistically significant sample in a universe with in the order of 10^22 stars. The odds of there being only one with a planetary system including a rocky planet like Earth are vanishinly small.

The latest theories of the nature of reality suggest there may be more universes than the number of stars in our own.

An once again. The odds of life being observed by life only on a planet where life is possible are 1:1.

 

[ChipperT]

I sold insurance for most of life, up until a couple of years ago. The medical specialists and dentists that I know (insurance clients) who are 'born agains" were extremely keen to convert me from a believer in telepathy type matters and "something out there" to the born again. They figured an insurance salesman was ideal for the job.

The one part of the "born again" where I have never got a reasonable answer from these blokes is...God knew before I was born whether I would go to Hell or Heaven...so if I can change the outcome then He was not all knowing....

So why do anything about it.

but assuming for the exercise that the Bible is basically accurate, to me it portrays a god of limited power and knowledge.

Yes, "Free-will" vs "Predestination" has always been a sticking point in Christianity. Whole sects have been and are based on it. Jehovah's Witnesses (Watchtower) are predestinationists.

 

[ChipperT]

Here is a question for the Christians reading this: Do you believe you are going to heaven when you die?

 

[Mike375]

One hundred planetary systems is not a statistically significant sample in a universe with in the order of 10^22 stars. The odds of there being only one with a planetary system including a rocky planet like Earth are vanishinly small.

The latest theories of the nature of reality suggest there may be more universes than the number of stars in our own.

An once again. The odds of life being observed by life only on a planet where life is possible are 1:1.

1:1 is after the event

It is harder being an atheist than I ever imagined

 

[Mike375]

Yes, "Free-will" vs "Predestination" has always been a sticking point in Christianity. Whole sects have been and are based on it. Jehovah's Witnesses (Watchtower) are predestinationists.

With an all knowing God there can only be "Predestination"

Whoever, whatever.....that moves to a different position can only be because "it/he/she is not all knowing.

 

[Mike375]

One hundred planetary systems is not a statistically significant sample in a universe with in the order of 10^22 stars. The odds of there being only one with a planetary system including a rocky planet like Earth are vanishinly small.

Is that a mathematical way of saying Fuck All

We need to to get the numbers correct.

How are the numbers for all of the galaxies.

Still seems to come up with Fuck All

 

[Mike375]

In short......no one will bet on finding "an earth"

Case closed

 

[Galaxiom]

1:1 is after the event.

Exactly. The observation of life only happens after the event by living creatures. There are no non-lifeforms observing our existence or their own non-existence. That is why the observer always finds itself in a place that lets life exist regardless of how uniely their origin might be.

In short......no one will bet on finding "an earth".

Given the distances to even the nearest stars in our own galaxy and the immense diffence in size between a star and planets it is truly remarkable that any have been found at all.

There is obviously no chance of finding any planets around 99.999999999999999 percent of stars in the Universe and even less of finding small rocky ones.

However an intelligent lifeform on one of those other maybe millions of Earth-like planets would be just as aware of their own existence as we are here. And like us here they would have no way of seeing the other planets that support life.

Not being able to see the other "Earths" does not mean they don't exist. It certainly does not mean that we exist only through the intervention of "something out there".

 

[Mike375]

Exactly. The observation of life only happens after the event by living creatures. There are no non-lifeforms observing our existence or their own non-existence. That is why the observer always finds itself in a place that lets life exist regardless of how uniely their origin might be.

The 1:1 after the event is like.....God works in mysterious ways....

Do you actually believe what you typed?

Read it back to yourself

Given the distances to even the nearest stars in our own galaxy and the immense diffence in size between a star and planets it is truly remarkable that any have been found at all.

So that would mean there are millions of planets?

There is obviously no chance of finding any planets around 99.999999999999999 percent of stars in the Universe and even less of finding small rocky ones.

Why do you give up on science so easily.

You appear to be saying that current technology is here for all time.

You have accepted the speed of light is a barrier...forever..?

However an intelligent lifeform on one of those other maybe millions of Earth-like planets would be just as aware of their own existence as we are here. And like us here they would have no way of seeing the other planets that support life.

How do you know?

You definitely are locked into the speed of light barrier.

There will be no adventurous science coming from you. But that is understandable as the atheist need facts

 

[Lightwave]

Do you actually believe what you typed?

Believe is maybe not the best word - using scietific method - any position is your best conclusion based on the information. Galaxioms reading and knowledge suggest this so it is his conclusion at this point in time.

So that would mean there are millions of planets?

Yes

Why do you give up on science so easily.

You appear to be saying that current technology is here for all time.

You have accepted the speed of light is a barrier...forever..?

I see nothing in what G wrote that indicates that he has given up on science quite the reverse. As for the speed of light being a barrier. He only says that because some very intelligent people have figured it out. Maybe its not correct but a lot of devices are built on principles that require it to be a constant. Suggests that its correct.

There will be no adventurous science coming from you. But that is understandable as the atheist need facts

Theoretical physics concerning the speed of light is one of man's greatest achievements which has taken 2,000 years to develop. Einstein certainly didn't reach it by jumping to conclusions and I would suggest you would be well advised to do the same.

It was also not accepted until proven by experimental and factual evidence.

Science requires an incredible amount of imagination - for the best part of 1900 years the majority of people didn't event think to imagine there might be an upper limit - that we lived in a universe that was so unbelievably large or that there could be things like electricity devices that fly through the air or that anything other than humans would be able to add numbers together.

The starting point of science can be the questionning of existing principles but it rarely involves throwing out what appears to be fundamental principles proven by the application of widescale technology.

 

[Galaxiom]

Well said Lightwave.

Those of us who actually understand the nature and significance of the speed of light realise it isn't just a speed like a bullet or a space ship. It can't even be considered in terms of a barrier because it is a fundamental characteristic of SpaceTime. Anyone who thinks of it as a barrier doesn't even have a clue.

Indeed c is the ONLY speed in our Universe. "Stationary" objects move continuously at the speed of light in the direction of time. Any motion through space is subtracted from this speed through time.

It is not even complicated or adventurous to understand this. Pythagoras had the required maths. I think it was Einstein who said that the ultimate truth will be so simple it could be understood by a child.

But those with preconceived agenda about there being "something out there" are unlikely to ever have the capacity to grasp the truth.

I have been an amateur theoretical physicist for over three decades and I assure you it is far more adventurous a sphere of thinking than those who consider the musings of stone age goat herders are still at the cutting edge.