ajetrumpet
Banned
- Local time
- Yesterday, 22:02
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2007
- Messages
- 5,638
To those reading this, I am not writing all of this to make fun of you or anyone else, but rather to boost the efficiency, working environment, community involvement, morale, and integrity of this forum.
This post is primarily for beginners, new forum posters, novice coders, and the like. Most people that are not programmers don't really know how to talk to them (us), and as a result, fire burns and fevers rise. In my opinion, if you want to make good use of your time when on this forum, learn how to talk to programmers efficiently and effectively.
If you're asking a question: PLEASE, explain it. I am not begging you to, nor do I care if you do (because I won't answer the question if I see it). Some programmers understand this delimma, but quite frankly some are very poor at recognizing it. The delimma is the poster's knowledge of the subject. In general: say in your post if you know what you're doing or not. That's way more helpful than saying something like: I have programmed Access before but have never worked with crosstab queries. That's great but it is not useful at all because the bottom line is that you don't know what you're doing.
In my experience working with, talking to, and even managing a couple of programmers, they typically are very intelligent, but many of them could use some verbal communication skill improvements. I'm not knocking programmers or the profession (or the art), as I'm sure being molded into a programmer over time has different effects on everyone. Below are some things you might want say in your post for some common situations I've seen around here. I am simply guessing that the "typical" programmer will appreciate any or all of these things you do when you communicate with them:
IF YOU WANT IT TO DO SOMETHING, BUT DON'T KNOW HOW TO PROGRAM IT...
*Tell us flat out...."I don't know how to do this"
*Respect the fact that time given to you is free and always ask a question that shows you want to learn how to do it. Something like: "Where do I start?", or "What would be my first step?"
*ASK FOR ADVICE on how to approach your project. BUT...don't detail us to death. In other words, ask it the same way you would ask Neil Armstrong this question: How did you feel when you got to walk on the moon? If he's like most, he'll answer your question than tell all the details of that extraordinary day. Hence, you'll get more information than you bargained for. Programmers love to pass knowledge on, especially stuff that WORKS and has been successful. At least I do!
IF SOMETHING IS NOT WORKING IN YOUR DATABASE...
*Keep in mind folks, that Access is one of the most complicated programs inside MS Office. It uses thousands of files to function. That being said, programmers REALLY appreciate it if you KNOW what is wrong before you ask. That way you don't write anything that cries out to us as "I'm just guessing".
*If you don't know what is wrong, tell us exactly what doesn't work. NOTHING ELSE. Just the piece that is not functioning. If a "knowledgeable" programmer replies to your post, he/she will most likely know where all of the possible bugs could be, and will tell you where to look for them. Example Question: "My subform doesn't show any records when it's recordsource table has 5 in it. That is a start. If you CAN, after you say that, give us any information that you KNOW is related to the functioning of the subform. If you simply have no clue why it doesn't work, you will only dig yourself a deeper hole by saying anything else. At this point, you will get the most out of your conversation with someone who answers if you just say, "I don't know where to go from here". The worst possible thing you can do if you're in this boat is say something like "I tried to do...to fix it", or "I know if I do....it will work". There's nothing wrong with saying stuff like that, but believe me, it sounds selfish, bullish, and over the top. People are not receptive to that.
*In my opinion, your post should ALWAYS include what you want to have happen in the end. Example: I want the textbox to show the current user of the database. Another Example: I want the query to return the 1st 10 records only.
IF YOU WANT HELP WRITING CODE...
*Personally, I completely turn off my hearing aid if someone talks to me directly about the code that they wrote and what they got it to do. Guess what!? I care, but you are overloading me with information that I can't possibly retain. So please keep it to yourself and enjoy the fact that you made something work that can't be easily explained.
This goes for posts too. Most people have a specialty when it comes to code writing, be it client side, server side, or just plain proprietary languages like VBA. If you want to ask specific questions about code, explicit syntax, or language structuring, you will probably get the best results by writing it as professionally as you can. What you're looking for is someone to answer who knows exactly what you're talking about. For example, you say It tells me "Block If without End If", and you post this:
someone would popup right away and say you forgot to close your FOR() loop.
*If you simply want us to give you source code for free, make it reasonable. If you don't know what is reasonable, LEARN IT. Learn the difference between ADVICE and PROJECTS. Asking for too much free knowledge is the worst way to try and make friends in this world. Most professional programmers are way beyond what you're asking for, so they don't mind giving you SOME code for free, because most of it that they are willing to give out has no market value anymore for them (e.g. - they can't make money writing it for someone else. either that, or it's not worth their time). Example - here's some code I am willing to give for free:
an extension of this code example I would not give for free would be one that allows multiple selections of files, consolidates them into one datasheet and imports it into Access for analysis, all dynamically through VBA procedures and object library references. In my eyes, that is a small project.
*If you want helping finding a BUG, be respectful or our time by exhausting all the resources Access gives you before you post your code and say "HELP!" Remember too that programming is a god-awful thankless job by nature, so if you can make a programmer feel good about him/herself, you'll get more help (and words) than you bargained for (which is what you generally want).
*I think I speak for many programmers when I say that if you ask a question that says something like this: "I want my program to do A, B, and C. I would appreciate it if someone could provide the code to do so". It's a light tempered question for sure, but regardless, you won't get an answer, at least from me. And here's why:
1) You have shown absolutely no interest in what you're doing.
2) I suspect you're trying to get source code for free and then sell it. If you want my opinion, that's immoral. Moreover, you're not fooling anyone that cares.
3) You're not trying
4) You're not participating in sharing the information we all seek so we can grow and be better.
WANT TO GAIN RESPECT AND RECOGNITION? TRY THIS...
If possible, know what you're talking about. It makes you look good.
Also, try not to mistakenly describe objects when you talk about your issue: My form's control source is "SELECT...etc, etc..." (forms don't have this property).
*I personally believe this forum is great because of the people that hang out here. There are plenty of knowledgeable people here, and lucky for you they are experts in SOMETHING specifically, but also know a little about a lot of other things. As I said before, what you want here is someone who tells you "DO A, B, C to fix your problem". That rarely happens, and most of the time it is because information is lacking to fully analyze the problem, formulate a solution, and then explain it to someone who doesn't initially understand it. Programmers REALLY like to have all the information needed to come up with as many solutions as possible that will work. In reality, it is YOUR responsibility to give that to us if you want the right answer to your problem. I am one for example, that does understand that some people who post here simply have no clue what they're doing, nor do they know what to do with a solution if one is given to them. If you're posting for a good reason and you truly need an answer from us, and you have ZERO experience related to the subject matter at hand, please say so right away. If someone does answer your question, it will save them loads of time by not having to wonder if you "know that already". For me, I have no problem answering these kind of questions. The point at which I become frustrated, and probably unsubscribe from your thread, is when I find out that you "knew that already" or "tried that already" when I spent time explaining it or typing it (whatever it is). If there is anything I dislike (and I like a lot of things in this world), it is wasteful use of time. So...in short, if you know what information we need to solve the problem, please give it to us. Don't guess. If you don't know what info we need to solve it, just say so and don't worry. We probably know what we need even before you say it. Here are some good examples of questions and the information we would need to give you the right answer the FIRST time so you can live happily ever after without much fuss:
Question: When I try to lock a textbox with VBA, it doesn't lock.
We Need: 1) the code you're using, 2) the value of the "allow edits" property of the form
Question: Why doesn't my subform show any records?
We Need: 1) subform's source table or SQL that runs it, 2) any initialization code behind it (code that is run when its loading or opening), 3) any links to a parent form it has
Question: I am getting a "type mismatch" error in my procedure...
We Need: 1) the line of code that Access says is bad, 2) what words in the code the debugger is highlighting, 3) any variable names and their data types that are inside the error-ridden code
Question: It tells me "No Current Record"
We Need: 1) what you're trying to do at that particular moment, 2) highlighted code if the debugger can be run to find it, 3) what you did right before you got the error, and any code that was run
MY THOUGHTS ON BEING A GREAT PROGRAMMER
I am nowhere near "great", but I have picked up on things that have taught me a great deal about the art of programming. Weather you're serious or not, if you are interested at all in learning anything about how programming works, be it software structuring, OS structure, script writing, or software engineering, try to post questions that will someday give others a chance to gain at least 1 more byte of knowledge. People who answer your questions will have more respect for you too!
This post is primarily for beginners, new forum posters, novice coders, and the like. Most people that are not programmers don't really know how to talk to them (us), and as a result, fire burns and fevers rise. In my opinion, if you want to make good use of your time when on this forum, learn how to talk to programmers efficiently and effectively.
If you're asking a question: PLEASE, explain it. I am not begging you to, nor do I care if you do (because I won't answer the question if I see it). Some programmers understand this delimma, but quite frankly some are very poor at recognizing it. The delimma is the poster's knowledge of the subject. In general: say in your post if you know what you're doing or not. That's way more helpful than saying something like: I have programmed Access before but have never worked with crosstab queries. That's great but it is not useful at all because the bottom line is that you don't know what you're doing.
In my experience working with, talking to, and even managing a couple of programmers, they typically are very intelligent, but many of them could use some verbal communication skill improvements. I'm not knocking programmers or the profession (or the art), as I'm sure being molded into a programmer over time has different effects on everyone. Below are some things you might want say in your post for some common situations I've seen around here. I am simply guessing that the "typical" programmer will appreciate any or all of these things you do when you communicate with them:
IF YOU WANT IT TO DO SOMETHING, BUT DON'T KNOW HOW TO PROGRAM IT...
*Tell us flat out...."I don't know how to do this"
*Respect the fact that time given to you is free and always ask a question that shows you want to learn how to do it. Something like: "Where do I start?", or "What would be my first step?"
*ASK FOR ADVICE on how to approach your project. BUT...don't detail us to death. In other words, ask it the same way you would ask Neil Armstrong this question: How did you feel when you got to walk on the moon? If he's like most, he'll answer your question than tell all the details of that extraordinary day. Hence, you'll get more information than you bargained for. Programmers love to pass knowledge on, especially stuff that WORKS and has been successful. At least I do!
IF SOMETHING IS NOT WORKING IN YOUR DATABASE...
*Keep in mind folks, that Access is one of the most complicated programs inside MS Office. It uses thousands of files to function. That being said, programmers REALLY appreciate it if you KNOW what is wrong before you ask. That way you don't write anything that cries out to us as "I'm just guessing".
*If you don't know what is wrong, tell us exactly what doesn't work. NOTHING ELSE. Just the piece that is not functioning. If a "knowledgeable" programmer replies to your post, he/she will most likely know where all of the possible bugs could be, and will tell you where to look for them. Example Question: "My subform doesn't show any records when it's recordsource table has 5 in it. That is a start. If you CAN, after you say that, give us any information that you KNOW is related to the functioning of the subform. If you simply have no clue why it doesn't work, you will only dig yourself a deeper hole by saying anything else. At this point, you will get the most out of your conversation with someone who answers if you just say, "I don't know where to go from here". The worst possible thing you can do if you're in this boat is say something like "I tried to do...to fix it", or "I know if I do....it will work". There's nothing wrong with saying stuff like that, but believe me, it sounds selfish, bullish, and over the top. People are not receptive to that.
*In my opinion, your post should ALWAYS include what you want to have happen in the end. Example: I want the textbox to show the current user of the database. Another Example: I want the query to return the 1st 10 records only.
IF YOU WANT HELP WRITING CODE...
*Personally, I completely turn off my hearing aid if someone talks to me directly about the code that they wrote and what they got it to do. Guess what!? I care, but you are overloading me with information that I can't possibly retain. So please keep it to yourself and enjoy the fact that you made something work that can't be easily explained.
This goes for posts too. Most people have a specialty when it comes to code writing, be it client side, server side, or just plain proprietary languages like VBA. If you want to ask specific questions about code, explicit syntax, or language structuring, you will probably get the best results by writing it as professionally as you can. What you're looking for is someone to answer who knows exactly what you're talking about. For example, you say It tells me "Block If without End If", and you post this:
PHP:
if myvalue = "foo" then
for each c in me.controls
if typeof c is label then
debug.print c.caption
end if
end if*If you simply want us to give you source code for free, make it reasonable. If you don't know what is reasonable, LEARN IT. Learn the difference between ADVICE and PROJECTS. Asking for too much free knowledge is the worst way to try and make friends in this world. Most professional programmers are way beyond what you're asking for, so they don't mind giving you SOME code for free, because most of it that they are willing to give out has no market value anymore for them (e.g. - they can't make money writing it for someone else. either that, or it's not worth their time). Example - here's some code I am willing to give for free:
Code:
With Application.FileDialog(msoFileDialogFilePicker)
dim varitem
With .Filters
.Clear
.Add "All Files", "*.*"
End With
.AllowMultiSelect = false
.InitialFileName = "c:\"
.InitialView = msoFileDialogViewDetails
If .Show Then
For Each varitem In .SelectedItems
msgbox "You selected a file with a " & _
right(varitem, 4) & " file extension."
next varitem
End If
End With*If you want helping finding a BUG, be respectful or our time by exhausting all the resources Access gives you before you post your code and say "HELP!" Remember too that programming is a god-awful thankless job by nature, so if you can make a programmer feel good about him/herself, you'll get more help (and words) than you bargained for (which is what you generally want).
*I think I speak for many programmers when I say that if you ask a question that says something like this: "I want my program to do A, B, and C. I would appreciate it if someone could provide the code to do so". It's a light tempered question for sure, but regardless, you won't get an answer, at least from me. And here's why:
1) You have shown absolutely no interest in what you're doing.
2) I suspect you're trying to get source code for free and then sell it. If you want my opinion, that's immoral. Moreover, you're not fooling anyone that cares.
3) You're not trying
4) You're not participating in sharing the information we all seek so we can grow and be better.
WANT TO GAIN RESPECT AND RECOGNITION? TRY THIS...
If possible, know what you're talking about. It makes you look good.
Also, try not to mistakenly describe objects when you talk about your issue: My form's control source is "SELECT...etc, etc..." (forms don't have this property). *I personally believe this forum is great because of the people that hang out here. There are plenty of knowledgeable people here, and lucky for you they are experts in SOMETHING specifically, but also know a little about a lot of other things. As I said before, what you want here is someone who tells you "DO A, B, C to fix your problem". That rarely happens, and most of the time it is because information is lacking to fully analyze the problem, formulate a solution, and then explain it to someone who doesn't initially understand it. Programmers REALLY like to have all the information needed to come up with as many solutions as possible that will work. In reality, it is YOUR responsibility to give that to us if you want the right answer to your problem. I am one for example, that does understand that some people who post here simply have no clue what they're doing, nor do they know what to do with a solution if one is given to them. If you're posting for a good reason and you truly need an answer from us, and you have ZERO experience related to the subject matter at hand, please say so right away. If someone does answer your question, it will save them loads of time by not having to wonder if you "know that already". For me, I have no problem answering these kind of questions. The point at which I become frustrated, and probably unsubscribe from your thread, is when I find out that you "knew that already" or "tried that already" when I spent time explaining it or typing it (whatever it is). If there is anything I dislike (and I like a lot of things in this world), it is wasteful use of time. So...in short, if you know what information we need to solve the problem, please give it to us. Don't guess. If you don't know what info we need to solve it, just say so and don't worry. We probably know what we need even before you say it. Here are some good examples of questions and the information we would need to give you the right answer the FIRST time so you can live happily ever after without much fuss:
Question: When I try to lock a textbox with VBA, it doesn't lock.
We Need: 1) the code you're using, 2) the value of the "allow edits" property of the form
Question: Why doesn't my subform show any records?
We Need: 1) subform's source table or SQL that runs it, 2) any initialization code behind it (code that is run when its loading or opening), 3) any links to a parent form it has
Question: I am getting a "type mismatch" error in my procedure...
We Need: 1) the line of code that Access says is bad, 2) what words in the code the debugger is highlighting, 3) any variable names and their data types that are inside the error-ridden code
Question: It tells me "No Current Record"
We Need: 1) what you're trying to do at that particular moment, 2) highlighted code if the debugger can be run to find it, 3) what you did right before you got the error, and any code that was run
MY THOUGHTS ON BEING A GREAT PROGRAMMER
I am nowhere near "great", but I have picked up on things that have taught me a great deal about the art of programming. Weather you're serious or not, if you are interested at all in learning anything about how programming works, be it software structuring, OS structure, script writing, or software engineering, try to post questions that will someday give others a chance to gain at least 1 more byte of knowledge.
People who answer your questions will have more respect for you too!
)
