Time for a new Political Debate

[jsanders]

Please anyone, anything, besides wayward priest and deviant behavior.

Can’t we go back to bashing Bush and his international puppets for a while?

You heard me; puppets, they probably can’t go to the John without his permission.

And what would the poor British do without our enlightened guidance?

 

[MrsGorilla]

I guess it's been a few weeks since anyone has really gotten riled up around here?

 

[jsanders]

I'm trying Cindy; it’s getting pretty darn stale in here. That whole priest thing been done to death.

And I bet the rest of the middle aged guys here, would much rather argue about something that has relevance to them.

 

[MrsGorilla]

That whole priest thing been done to death.

But the Bush thing hasn't been done to death?

 

[Rich]

But the Bush thing hasn't been done to death?

Not yet!

 

[jsanders]

Here we go.

Back on the Roller Coaster.

But it beats the heck out of the Merry Go Round.

 

[Len Boorman]

Stop beating about the Bush and say what you think

 

[Rich]

Stop beating about the Bush and say what you think

Somebody should beat him around the bush

 

[jsanders]

Somebody should beat him around the bush

You can do better thant that.

Take the conflict in Iraq.

What should be done about that?

 

[Rich]

You can do better thant that.

Take the conflict in Iraq.

What should be done about that?

Simple, Bush should go on a meet the people of Iraq fact finding tour and see if the Iraqis agree with him that he's winning the war on terror that he started there in the first place.

Actually the US will as usual pull out when it becomes no longer productive to Americans to be there, the loss of life will of course continue on a massive and unacceptable level in the meantime.
Still it got the massive increase in the American armaments industry that Bush wanted for his cronies, shame it's being paid for by other people's blood

 

[jsanders]

That’s a simplified and narrow view and you know it.

Unfortunately we are in a conundrum. Damned if do, damned if we don’t.

Never mind how we got here. That’s for the historians. What we need is a comprehensive strategy to restore self worth to the people of Iraq. Unfortunately for them they have no plausible framework to build on.

The tyranny of the Middle East is not a US manufacture, but in ways it’s lucky for them that they are of strategic value. Otherwise they would be left to whatever genocidal maniac that comes along. You could wrongly accuse the Bush Administration of that; but it would be a typical knee jerk reaction.

We’re here and what is needed is a total cooperation by all of the Western powers; to see this through. It worked in Bosnia, it can work in the Middle East. Unless your contention is that they are incapable of self rule. Which of course, was the British point of view, for decades.

So condemning US policy after the fact is by it’s vary nature fruitless.

First we have to deal with the insurgents at all cost.

Second we need to continue to train the Iraqi Guard.

Third we need to have a viable propaganda program; we must find the way to the hearts and minds of the people that live there.

Forth we need to make it easy for them to join the real world. The “World” where most of the problems people face are cured by an education and a job.

We need to get the oil flowing so Americans can have cheep fuel. No wait scratch that one.

We need to teach them how to end graft in the system so when the oil is flowing the black market and organized crime aren’t in charge of it.

Speaking of organized crime; I just read an article in the magazine, “The National Interest” where Robert E. Looney reported on the state of organized crime in Iraq. The entire magazine is well written and balanced in its approach. I highly recommend it.

There are many obstacles to overcome in Iraq. We need to encourage the powers that be to make the right decisions. The way we do this is by getting more informed and taking a more active role.

 

[Vassago]

What about the problems in our own country? We have spent so much time and money trying to rebuild another country, when we have more than enough problems for one "man" much less an entire administration, to try and overcome. I don't even think I should have to tell you what problems we've been facing recently.

 

[jsanders]

What about the problems in our own country? We have spent so much time and money trying to rebuild another country, when we have more than enough problems for one "man" much less an entire administration, to try and overcome. I don't even think I should have to tell you what problems we've been facing recently.

Had we not lost so many post, you would have been able to read my views on them as well.

The entire planet is in serious turmoil, the fixing needs to be everywhere humans live.

Americans have always been among the world greatest problem solvers and our culture promotes hard work and genius more than any other, we will continue to have major problems and we will continue to solve them.

I would love to debate specific issues from either side if you like.

 

[Rich]

That’s a simplified and narrow view and you know it.

No, like most of us including the Frenchies have said all along it's the truth and like I said here's what will happen, at least the first part

http://www.d-n-i.net/creveld/costly_withdrawal.htm

 

[FoFa]

What about the problems in our own country? We have spent so much time and money trying to rebuild another country, when we have more than enough problems for one "man" much less an entire administration, to try and overcome. I don't even think I should have to tell you what problems we've been facing recently.

Umm, that is pretty much what Clinton ran on.
That and the definition of the word "is" and hummers for everyone!

 

[Brianwarnock]

Americans have always been among the world greatest problem solvers and our culture promotes hard work and genius more than any other,

I can't believe somebody,anybody, would write that.

Brian

 

[Rich]

I can't believe somebody,anybody, would write that.

Brian

It's taught to them in school from an early age

 

[ColinEssex]

What we need is a comprehensive strategy to restore self worth to the people of Iraq. Unfortunately for them they have no plausible framework to build on.

Because the US military destroyed all that

So condemning US policy after the fact is by it’s vary nature fruitless.

It was condemned before the fact and ignored by GWB and his warmongering cronies because they could see $$$$$$$$ signs

First we have to deal with the insurgents at all cost.

Who were under control before the US attack

Second we need to continue to train the Iraqi Guard.

They were trained

Third we need to have a viable propaganda program; we must find the way to the hearts and minds of the people that live there.

A USA propaganda programme? do you think just because its a US thing that the totally different cultured people want your propaganda? You get enough brainwashing in the USA via your biased news - how do you know what Iraqi people need?

Forth we need to make it easy for them to join the real world. The “World” where most of the problems people face are cured by an education and a job.

Why? the real world? you mean the USA world? They had a real world but USA destroyed it

We need to get the oil flowing so Americans can have cheep fuel. No wait scratch that one.

Thats the most sensible and true one so far

We need to teach them how to end graft in the system so when the oil is flowing the black market and organized crime aren’t in charge of it.

but its ok for US black market and organised crime under the guise of the US government to be in charge of it?

There are many obstacles to overcome in Iraq. We need to encourage the powers that be to make the right decisions. The way we do this is by getting more informed and taking a more active role.

why would Bush and his mob listen to the US people? he hasn't so far, he's just settling scores for his daddy so he/they can get richer and richer in the rebuilding contracts etc etc

Did you not see the brilliant Farenheit 9/11? its was on national network TV here in the UK a while back - has it not been on USA national TV?

Col

 

[Brianwarnock]

Unless your contention is that they are incapable of self rule. Which of course, was the British point of view, for decades.

The Iraq's had self rule, it was by a guy called Saddam, he may have been a bastard but he was their bastard.
Just because we in the west elect a dictator every few years doesn't mean everybody has to go down that path, some people are happy to abrogate all responsibility to some one else.

There used to be a mainly benevelent dictatorship managing half the world it was called the British Empire, but the USA thought it should be replaced by one called Uncle Sam, the trouble is he cuts and runs when the going gets tough.

Brian

 

[ColinEssex]

but the USA thought it should be replaced by one called Uncle Sam, the trouble is he cuts and runs when the going gets tough.

and sadly, the know-it-all / save-the-world US government brain deads didn't reckon on the Iraq invasion farse being an excellent practice ground for all manner of low life to have a good pop at the US military without setting foot on US soil.

They must have thought it was an (Allah) heaven sent opportunity, they couldn't believe their luck - now we can kill thousands of US people on our own ground.

Now, its costing the US billions and billions whilst issues at home go short of money and shelved - like the levies that protected New Orleans from flooding - strengthening and replacement all shelved due to lack of money - what a joke they soon find money for stupid pointless space exploration and stupid illegal wars.

Col