WIFI connection without router?

[missinglinq]

First let me say that while I’ve been writing code for 30 years, my understanding of the mechanics of computers is just what I’ve picked up, here and there. I usually leave that kind of stuff to the techies.

Have a home setup with two ‘stationary’ laptops running on WIFI with a standard setup of a modem and a router, courtesy of Comcast. Have always had a problem, at times, of being dropped, sometimes frequently, but always at times of heavy traffic, i.e. weekends, holidays, etc.

Usually end up unplugging modem and router, plugging in modem again and waiting for it to boot up, then plugging in router again. Usually it works, but not always.

Went thru this routine last week, but after rebooting the modem, went off to do a few chores. Went back online and checking my speed, found it to be well above what I pay for. Worked awhile then realized there was something I hadn’t done. Has anyone caught that?

I hadn’t reconnected the router! Checked the second laptop…it was online with excellent speed! Same behavior exhibited for the past week! How is this possible without a router?

Just out of curiosity, I re-connected the router and the speeds immediately dropped abysmally! Disconnected them and speeds returned to outstanding?

Linq ;0)>

 

[Minty]

If the modem is "passing through" the connection details the router may be an unnecessary part of the chain.

I gave up with Provider supplied Hubs/routers years ago, and purchased a dedicated Linksys one.
I need to reboot it maybe once every six months worst case.

 

[NauticalGent]

It is my understanding that routers are mainly to set up a home network between your devices. The modem is what brings the service to the house.

If your router is slowing things down then leave it unplugged!

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Not sure if I'm right about this but I've got an inclination that drones, well especially one of the first ones I bought use Wi-Fi without a router, direct from your cellphone/mobile.

 

[NauticalGent]

Found this bit:

Wi-Fi performance

Router technology has changed over time. Make sure you have a router that uses the latest technology and has updated firmware. MU-MIMO is one such new technology. It stands for multi-user, multiple-input, multiple-output technology. It allows Wi-Fi routers to communicate with multiple devices simultaneously. This decreases the wait time and improves network speed.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

@missinglinq

Though I generally abhor their ads because they represent click-bait to me most of the time, there is a persistent ad about a more modern Wi-Fi repeater that doesn't necessarily go through a router and that can give you very high speeds. Their advertising point is that the routers supplied with your modem are designed to give you a particular "level of service" - which is like the governor on a car or the baffle-plate in a shower head, both of which are types of throttling device.

Your original contract with your ISP might not have expressly stated the performance they expected to provide, which puts you pretty much at the mercy of their marketing and contracts teams. They tend to throttle things because what they are REALLY doing is sharing a "pool of bandwidth" among many homes on their same sub-net.

If your home system is like most modern systems, you are on a class-B intranet, where your in-home address is 192.168.xxx.xxx, and your router probably only has a range of 254 addresses to manage using DHCP. If so, your 3rd intranet octet is probably 1 (192.168.1.xxx). The router then dynamically assigns addresses in the 4th octet and does network address translation between your end network-enabled device and the ISP's central router. If you think about how many homes are on that network segment sharing bandwidth, you understand why they think they have to throttle your speed.

I don't know how to bypass the router with my home system because I believe it is integrated to the modem. Therefore I will not know that kind of speed unless something changes drastically with my ISP. But the ads do indicate that for some modems, higher wi-fi is possible with a 3rd party repeater device.

 

[Isaac]

I haven't used a router in years, just the cable box that comes with the cable company, it broadcasts my signal

 

[The_Doc_Man]

@Isaac - sadly, mine doesn't (or at least from what I can find, it doesn't.)

 

[AccessBlaster]

My AT&T router / modem / gateway all in the same box, I don't think I could disconnect one unless I bought them separate.

 

[moke123]

I've hated the fact that isp's make you rent their modems, and cable boxes, so I've been buying my own for at least 20 years. I replace them probably every 5 or 6 years to try and keep up with the tech. I also like to be hardwired as much as I can so I have cat running throughout the house with switches and a wireless extender on the other side of the house. When Time Warner sold to Spectrum they upped my speed to 100 mbs. Just recently Spectrum doubled it to 200 mbs at no charge. A speed tests shows 220 mbs. down and 12 mbs. up. Since the speed upgrade I notice a lot more instances of dropped connections at the modem. I also noticed this usually happens consistantly around 10pm each night. I've been meaning to call and bitch about it.

edit: To be clear the router is built into the modem.

 

[FrankRuperto]

I don't know how to bypass the router with my home system because I believe it is integrated to the modem. Therefore I will not know that kind of speed unless something changes drastically with my ISP. But the ads do indicate that for some modems, higher wi-fi is possible with a 3rd party repeater device.

I never use built-in wifi with ISP modems, I plug in my own router. Nothing fancy, a good ole $30 USD n-router, and speed/reliability is excellent. If you have the modem's password, (usually found on the modem's bottom or back), you can login to it and disable the built-in wifi's radio. http://192.168.0.1 or 1.1 will get you the login screen.

 

[Minty]

Since the speed upgrade I notice a lot more instances of dropped connections at the modem. I also noticed this usually happens consistantly around 10pm each night. I've been meaning to call and bitch about it.

This is MIB using your connection to upload the internet to another planet as a back-up.

 

[moke123]

This is MIB using your connection to upload the internet to another planet as a back-up.

Made me think of this famous speech

 

[FrankRuperto]

The most important performance factor of any cable modem is the DOCSIS version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS
The latest Spectrum modems use DOCSIS 4.0 with a max upstream speed of 10 Gbit/s, and 6 Gbit/s downstream.

DOCSIS 4.0 : Improves DOCSIS 3.1 to use the full spectrum of the cable plant (0 MHz to ~1.8 GHz) at the same time in both upstream and downstream directions. This technology enables multi-gigabit symmetrical services while remaining backwards compatible with DOCSIS 3.1. CableLabs released the full specification in October 2017.[11] Previously branded as DOCSIS 3.1 Full Duplex, these technologies have been rebranded as part of DOCSIS 4.0

So no matter how fast your ISP's bandwidth, the bottleneck is the modem and the speed of the sites you visit. I swapped my old modem for Spectrum's newest and now my PS4 online gaming rarely lags.

EDIT: Interesting criminal case of cable modem hacking: https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2009/11/derengel_indictment1.pdf

 

[IanO]

This is called an Adhoc wireless network between 2 devices
A router has to continuously identify which port the packages have to go to which limits its speed.
Removing the router from the equation results in a data speed of the slowest device.
I don't know if the router is constrained by the speed of its processor or if it is constrained by the slowest speed connection to it (!0, 100 , 1000)
Here is more information.

How Does Wi-Fi Work Without a Router?

How Does Wi-Fi Work Without a Router?. The Wi-Fi standards follow recommendations published by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineering. From the beginning, the IEEE made a requirement that Wi-Fi networks could work without routers or switc

smallbusiness.chron.com

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The most important performance factor of any cable modem is the DOCSIS version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS
The latest Spectrum modems use DOCSIS 4.0 with a max upstream speed of 10 Gbit/s, and 6 Gbit/s downstream.

So no matter how fast your ISP's bandwidth, the bottleneck is the modem and the speed of the sites you visit. I swapped my old modem for Spectrum's newest and now my PS4 online gaming rarely lags.

EDIT: Interesting criminal case of cable modem hacking: https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2009/11/derengel_indictment1.pdf

Thanks, Frank. Good, relevant article and a good choice of supplemental reference.

I was aware that DOCSIS existed but had lost tract of its current progress. And the DerEngel case is just a good object lesson for those who don't believe in paying for things that they take, whether we are talking goods OR services. Quite informative. Yet another reason why I merely grumble about certain issues without doing more.