selling your work (1 Viewer)

question, how many of you have sold a database you have made?
and if so how do you go about doing it?

What a very fortuitous question especially for me! I realise what I am about to say is not exactly what you were asking, I think you meant a whole complete database.

However you will probably find that your database has useful bits and pieces in it. Modules that other people could use if you could only extract them. In other words you could turn parts of your database into something that could be dropped into the buyers database giving them expert functionality without the effort.

Well funnily enough that's something I do, and have done for quite some time, and seeing as it's Black Friday I have marked down some of my products to zero "£0.00" in other words they are FREE and others are at HALF PRICE if you use this coupon code:- nifty50awf

The Products are Available HERE:- Nifty Access - Power User

I upload my code to the marvelous digital download site offered by Sellfy. I find Sellfy works well because people can watch a video which explains what's involved, make a decision on whether they want to buy or not from the content of the video.

Very interesting Tony - that barcode example is really good.

Haven't needed it but might well in the future

I sell a number of databases via my website as well as various free downloads.

Make sure your website looks professional & loads fast.
If possible, try to ensure the applications will appear high in Google searches - there are various techniques for doing that.

As many of my apps are for a specialised market, I advertise by personalised marketing emails to target audiences, direct contacts and also make use of recommendations/testimonials by existing users.

In order to make your product attractive, you need to ensure the installation process is as smooth as possible. Use a professional installer package.

Having said all that, I'm about to try Tony's route as well - so he'll have to drop his prices even lower .... apart from the free ones of course!
I believe that having good quality free items is important as users will try those first.
If the free stuff is any good, they may think about buying something else later

Very interesting - when you produce a database for a customer, do you copyright it or protect it legally? When you mention a professional installer package, I take it that will handle installing the front and back ends in suitable locations, and then linking them up?

fat controller said:

Very interesting - when you produce a database for a customer, do you copyright it or protect it legally? When you mention a professional installer package, I take it that will handle installing the front and back ends in suitable locations, and then linking them up?

Click to expand...

Copyright is important but difficult to enforce in reality
The main thing is to prevent other users using your code in their own commercial applications
Protecting it legally isn't really practicable except for large corporations IMO

Hence. most developers distribute their work as ACCDE files so the code is inaccessible.

In contrast, for many years, I have sold some of my more powerful & complex schools databases as ACCDB files so that capable Access users can modify them to meet their needs.
However, I do stress copyright issues.
I also make clear that any program updates that I release will overwrite their changes!
That's usually enough to put them off so that they ask me (pay me) to make desired changes & integrate them into my own versions.

The installer package can certainly install both FE & BE files to specified locations.
If this is done it makes relinking a doddle.
However in my experience, each institution will need to use a different location for the BE files.
In my case, the BE is normally A SQL server database so all sorts of settings will need to be specified by the end user.

These settings are stored in the registry & in a linked Access configuration file.
Hence when I distribute split databases, I remove all links before doing so.

When the update is installed, the installation routine does many things including:
a) run the SQL server script file to make any required changes to the SQL database tables
b) grabs the settings from the config file / registry & relinks the new FE to the BE file(s).
c) makes any required changes to the Access config file
d) resets the path to various folders depending on user settings
e.g.for backups, images, documentation etc
e) creates a log file of the changes made and notes any errors (VERY rare)
f) 'silently' sends an email to me (the developer) with the log file as an attachment ... so I know instantly if there were any issues
g) sends me another email if users have changed the path/settings for their config & SQL datafiles ... so I can include the new values in future versions

... and more ...

Even with the largest databases all of that can be done in 30-45 seconds.
In case, you're not totally bored following this very lengthy reply, attached is a typical log file

I think what Ridders and Gizmo might lose from being open is more than made up for by the increased visibility and status they get from being open.

In 12 years of using Access I've not come across any applications that are knock offs.

Interestingly I would be more protective of code relating to web applications than Access as the deploying of Access applications is geographically quite distinct so developers can be in completely different markets but a web application goes out to everyone and you could compete directly with your own copied application.

Code is code can you really copyright a User Defined function? - I think its better not to.
Nearly all my code benefit from me reading others code.

We all for example benefit from the Access library functions that are Microsoft's own user defined functions allbeit rolled into the application.

The principal is there though - you should not be copying other peoples applications. Absolutely start from scratch if you are able but copy big NO.

An analogy with a carpenter making a door - A carpenters doesn't really own the way and techniques used in constructing a door but the final door is something that can be owned and should not be stolen.

The thing I often wonder about, is when someone buys proprietary software a game or in this case Microsoft Access. And you make some type of modifications (MOD), then your able to sell this MOD and make a profit?

I haven't completely read the EULA but somewhere in there it mentions licensing. I wouldn't be surprised if a MOD became wildly popular, Microsoft's lawyers might take notice.

Companies are not generally in the business of stealing software. Individuals do it all the time so things like games are quite susceptible but business apps are not of interest to individuals. However, you should probably use a site license rather than a seat license unless you are prepared to create a web app that collects installation data so you can monitor "seats". In my apps, there is also some customization that happens when the BE is installed that limits the opportunity for one company to give or sell the app to another but "seats" are much harder to control without a web connection.

I don't have anything sold to the public. My apps are more high-end and come with a certain amount of custom support. I do use an installation tool to install the app to handle the permissions issues and the app does include a relinking form which opens automatically when the app opens if the BE cannot be found. The system's admin communicates the location of the BE so that there is no confusion. There is also an option to use SQL Server as the BE. The app works interchangeably with either. The BE install scripts are handled by the client's DBA since most users do not have permission to run them.

You didn't mention what type of app you want to sell but even if it isn't intended to be multi-user, I would still split into FE/BE because otherwise, it would be a nightmare to try to provide updates. You don't want to get in business of messing with their data. Try to keep backend updates to adding new columns and tables rather than restructuring or deleting. Of course, this requires a sound initial schema.

note that some of the different versions of Access might not legally be used for commercial reasons - eg student versions. They will work, but somewhere in the dbs it will no doubt indicate that you used the student edition.

hello ridders, you say to use a professional installer package, any particular one?

I use samlogic visual installer professional.
Others include sage key pro and inno

See this thread for a comparison of each
https://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=294659

gemma-the-husky said:

note that some of the different versions of Access might not legally be used for commercial reasons - eg student versions. They will work, but somewhere in the dbs it will no doubt indicate that you used the student edition.

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Hi Dave
You said 'might not'.
Out of interest, do you have a reference that states such a restriction?

In any event, the student edition of Office doesn't contain Access.

fat controller said:

Very interesting - when you produce a database for a customer, do you copyright it or protect it legally?

Click to expand...

I don't think copyright notice really is worth all that much. I create databases as contractual work and some of my customers objected to them so I changed them to a notice ("About" splasher), with a name, address, etc. Since there were objections to that also, I put it in the standard agreement as a condition. Remember, you don't have to have a copyright notice anywhere! Any program is your intellectual property unless you created it as an employee of a company. In a court of law, your authorship would not be seriously challenged (unless you declared your creation "in public domain"), and the offending party would have to prove it had obtained rights to dispose of the IP the way you can prove they did. But those kinds of issues rarely crop up for a contractor like me.

My problem, and I am sure I am the great exception in this, is ensuring that I get paid for the work I deliver. It is sometimes royal pain and after two back-to-back incidents (won both via Small Claims court action) I decided to go back to "licensing". Simply put, I install a license module which will stop the program from executing after certain amount of time. If I get paid I change the temporary license to permanent, or remove the licensing code if the customer opts for buying the product with source code. (If they do, it's "hands off" for me, otherwise I am bound to do maintenance on the compiled versions). The license file (an encrypted I/O file) uses a "stamp" which displays the authorized user of the program on the main form and reports.

Again, I had one challenge to that, but I was able to talk the client out of it. One, it was in the contract and it in no way interfered with anything except with the freedom to freely distribute my database app contrary to our agreement. So, having a contract with the buyer of your creations is very important, and it's well worth paying the lawyer to draft one up so you don't end up holding the bag.

Hope, this has been helpful.

Best,
Jiri

Jiri is making a very similar point to that I made in a previous post.
Copyright is very difficult to enforce but placing a copyright notice does help in making the point about not reusing code in other commercial applications without permission.

As I'm sure many of you will know, I have posted a lot of items in the repository & in sample databases. I do so knowing hat if the code is useful, others will take parts of the code to use in their own applications. That's fine by me. However I do expect that my code will be attributed to me.
If someone wants to use my code in an application for sale, then my permission is required before I that is done.

Recently I've started adding notices similar to this in my apps.
They double up as 'About' messages as well as copyright notices.
Notice that I also acknowledge code supplied by another author where appropriate.

Sorry its so large - it's a full screen startup form


If you are interested, that's from a currency exchange rates sample database I posted the other day. I've also put copyright notices on various modules
https://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=297121

ridders said:

Jiri is making a very similar point to that I made in a previous post.
Copyright is very difficult to enforce but placing a copyright notice does help in making the point about not reusing code in other commercial applications without permission.

Click to expand...

Colin, dear friend, you can make the point to hallelujah, but you will not be able to enforce it. I used to work for IBM Global Services and had to work closely with the IP lawyers in some areas (Katz patents - google it out if you want). So I have been forewarned about a lot of actual cases of copyright infringement. But I can also tell you that your example falls into what has been commonly derided as "copyleft" in North America, the so-called "reciprocals" which for all intents and purposes are not enforceable because of a mountain of issues that crop up. Eg.: are we talking copyright - i.e. an original, substantive, creative work of art or a novel solution to a given problem. On that basis, 99.9% of self-declared "protected" software components (such as functions, procedures, formulas, etc.) creations would not qualify as candidates. They might still be protected by the general notion of "authorship" but again there is a standard of originality that would have to be met, and of course the provenance issue, where it would have to be demonstrated that the user himself modified the code in contravention of the express conditions of use. IBM successfully fended off scores of challenges concerning a system management software it bought (Tivoli) which was originally "open source". None of it came to court, or forced the Big Blue to settle. So I am very skeptical, if not of the practice or advertising for oneself as the author, then of the inhibitor effect of such notices.

Best,
Jiri

As I'm sure many of you will know, I have posted a lot of items in the repository & in sample databases. I do so knowing hat if the code is useful, others will take parts of the code to use in their own applications. That's fine by me. However I do expect that my code will be attributed to me.
If someone wants to use my code in an application for sale, then my permission is required before I that is done.

Recently I've started adding notices similar to this in my apps.
They double up as 'About' messages as well as copyright notices.
Notice that I also acknowledge code supplied by another author where appropriate.

Sorry its so large - it's a full screen startup form

If you are interested, that's from a currency exchange rates sample database I posted the other day. I've also put copyright notices on various modules
https://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=297121

Click to expand...

I'm not disagreeing with you Jiri
See my original response in post #6

It's worth clarifying the difference between selling an application and selling a database. Despite the question that started this thread, I believe this thread has so far only talked about selling applications, not databases. Legally and practically they are very different things.

Generally speaking nobody buys a database empty of data unless they are also buying an application that requires that database. So selling a database (as disctinct from selling a complete system including an application) usually means selling data. Data may be subject to copyright law but more importantly various privacy and confidentiality laws governing the use of shared data may apply even if you are the original creator of the database. As a rule databases are usually not patented and in most cases probably are not patentable. The fact that you create the database does not mean you own the data within it or have the right to sell it.

Applications (i.e. program code and user-interface elements) may be subject to copyright and patent laws but data privacy and confidentiality laws are usually not relevant. Intellectual Property (IP) can normally be claimed by the creators unless prior art is claimed by others or rights are assigned elsewhere. The IP owner normally has the right to sell an application unless they have legally given up that right or are barred from doing so in some other way.

Just my 0.02. I am not a lawyer however.

ButtonMoon said:

I am not a lawyer however.

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No neither am I! But I do recall asking a lawyer if I could patent a database and he said basically what you said above, the actual data is not patentable. (that's UK mind you)

hi button moon, thanks for your input, I started this thread because I have produced a database that I have been told is a sellable item WITH the data, (this is the way I want to sell it ) as a complete package, I have never done this before and need the input from this forum to guide me on the best way of going about this.
my goal is to sell through my website, thus I need to know the best way to do this(help on this would be appreciated),
how can you stop your database being passed on?
so many questions to ask in this reply, I think I will ask more as we go on, any help I can get would be a great benefit .