Access 2013 (1 Viewer)

shadow9449

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Seems like that has something to do with Sharepoint. Doesn't help us developers who want to create either non-web applications or web applications that don't need Sharepoint. Oh well...

SHADOW
 

boblarson

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Seems like that has something to do with Sharepoint. Doesn't help us developers who want to create either non-web applications or web applications that don't need Sharepoint. Oh well...

SHADOW

It just means the person who is at a level higher than the normal user and is not a developer. Like the accountant who does up his own databases for himself or his group.

And while they (MS) thinks that they are helping them, what they are really doing is enabling bad practices (in lots of situations) and then they (the Power IW's) come to us for how to fix their problems. And we do so much FREE "fixing" of Microsofts failure to make their programs so that they use best practices but they don't seem to give a rats @SS about what we think. That's why I'm so PO'd at them. The damn Power IW's come here for help and we help them but to help us is not "cost-effective" according to "their research."

Sorry, it still makes my blood boil when thinking about it.
 

shadow9449

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It just means the person who is at a level higher than the normal user and is not a developer. Like the accountant who does up his own databases for himself or his group..

Many, many of us here on the forum make a living creating commercial apps using Access that are sold at competitive prices because Access is great for Rapid Application Development. Staff working for big companies who need ad-hoc data storage and reporting is just a different niche than the rest of us. It looks like the latter group is being catered to while the rest of us are getting stiffed.

And while they (MS) thinks that they are helping them, what they are really doing is enabling bad practices (in lots of situations) and then they (the Power IW's) come to us for how to fix their problems. And we do so much FREE "fixing" of Microsofts failure to make their programs so that they use best practices but they don't seem to give a rats @SS about what we think. That's why I'm so PO'd at them. The damn Power IW's come here for help and we help them but to help us is not "cost-effective" according to "their research."
.

That opens a whole new topic.

Access is a funny animal in the sense that it's easy for do-it-yourselfers can make a CD collection more easily than learning C#.NET and SQL Server. But the danger in that is when simple users (like your friend the accountant you referenced) think that their ability means that they can make a full-scale application but when the latter bombs, then Access is viewed as a toy because it's Access, not them.

If you look at the myriad posts on this forum, many people who are just starting in Access don't understand the essentials of data normalization. It's wonderful that the forum members can provide guidance and many people learn that way, but what about the millions who don't bother and think that it's Access?

In my opinion, Access should disallow bad practices that will come back to haunt such as:

- using reserved words in naming. Is it THAT difficult to program a warning when the user creates a table that says something like "'Date' is not a valid field name as it is a reserved word". If newbies can make databases then they have to have appropriate warnings and prevention.

- Sharing a database without splitting. How many poor souls just thought that it's easy enough to create a shortcut and share one database with 5 users and then say "Access corrupts all the time" because they didn't understand that it has to be split.

Just to conclude: if you're going to make a tool that newbies can use, then it has to be able to have a lot more newbie-habit prevention or it's going to cause a lot of grief down the road.

SHADOW
 

spikepl

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Hmmm. A lot of bitching :)

I happen to agree with what MS has done (not that my opinion matters much one way or the other). MS has lowered the threshold necessary for providing rudimentary database facilities from geek-level to eager/p'd off IW !!

You have all witnessed the eternal fight between IT-departmenets and the actual business needs that in many instances either are catered for by using Access or not at all.

And yes, all these default features that we curse daily on AWF are in fact the very ones that let people without much programming competence or experience actually make something useful. Once they prove to themselves that they can, then they can continue. This is quite a feat, and Access is therefore amazing!
 

Lightwave

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I guess time will tell Spike but there are a few things which would have benefited everyone for instance SQL Access and SQL Server syntax has been screaming out for alignment for years.

And the focus on Sharepoint is a difficult one for anyone not hooked into that. Many power IWs have really no control over that. It's also awkward for home users.

Similar alignment of data types between Access and SQL Server.

And a really good ribbon menu designer.

By the way I'm an accountant who taught himself how to program using 2003 so I guess I'm a PIW

I haven't seen the product so I will reserve judgement it will possibly be years before I use it as the web database option I don't need at the moment because I can do everything for zero cost in an earlier version.

It should be noted that it is not clear what the link between the IDE and PIWs is.
It is possible that the increase in PIWs is an underlying trend which has been independent of recent developments with access. For many there is almost no choice in the market or at work it's MS's way or the high way additionally the early versions of Access were very popular and nearly everyone is now familiar with the basic idea of a database. Knowledge tends to be a one way route in a society.

Overall I still love MS Access and as such I am protective
 
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Pat Hartman

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Using the Wizards and then converting the code to VBA was how I learned VBA in the beginning. I think they helped a lot of new users.
 

Micromax

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Maybe I should delete my post since everyone has their own personal experience with Access. Whatever works is good.
 

CHAOSinACT

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I have mixed feelings...but in the end, resistance is futile. We will be assimilated.

I DO have hopes for the merging of windows 8 and tablets data and functionality. Tablets MAY now become useful in the workplace... I see great potential in the new design look for better interface...but I NEED powerful vba to run the company database.

I'm hoping to spruce up our current large company database so it look a bit fresher on the main office towers, and provided limited share point functionality for the boss to read in dashboard style metro reporting tiles. Fools paradise, I know....Does that sound plausible to anyone here (I mean Bob Larson, of course.... ;) )?

EDIT:more research done...wow. they really plan to encourage newbie users to NOT create their own tables and just use "table templates"?!? my god, the horror. the horror. Database normalization will become unheard of by 80% of users within the year. tragically I have no confidence in Microsoft making it work right - i spent an hour yesterday fixing a "convert number to letter" function they publish for excel (around number 79 this gem returns B]3 for an excel column, classic Microsoft ;)):

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/833402

if they can't get that right at this point, I lack faith lol. Glad we can still ignore the wizards and do it right, though I suspect soon a lot more people will be using access, with no idea what right and wrong are, or even where to find them....tragic.
 
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Micromax

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Wow, someone agreed with me, that's a first.

Thanks for your honesty and comments.

Rob:)
 

The_Doc_Man

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Given that my office just recently converted to Ofc2007, about early last year, and we probably won't convert to Ofc2010 for another couple of years, I will be retired before I have to face Ofc2013. Unless, of course, the Mayan calendar doom-and-gloom types were actually right for once... ;)

Seriously, I see what is happening in the industry as a trend because people don't see the cost of tablets and pads and this and that with the cloud as their back end. What I also see is a sudden burst of "OMG what have we done" the first time some departmental pointy-haired manager (apologies to Scott Adams and Dilbert) realizes that the cloud traffic wasn't well-secured. And of course he finds this out when all of his e-mails show up in a trade rag exposing the fact that his company is a sham. The people who simply CANNOT live without their cell phone stuck to their ear and their iPad or some other data appliance glued to one hand - they are giving themselves stress syndromes that will take their lives a lot earlier than used to be the case.

Sometimes I get accused of being a dinosaur, and I won't deny it. But at least I'm a calm, laid-back dinosaur.
 

Micromax

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Better to be laid back and called a dinosaur than live fast,,,early you know what.

Thanks,

Rob:)
 

shadow9449

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You're welcome.

The one that upsets me the most is:

You can no longer create Access 2003 toolbar and menus that display in Access 2013. Access 2003 toolbars and menus are displayed in Access 2007 and Access 2010 without the Ribbon. They will not display in Access 2013 but will appear in the Add-ins tab in Access 2013. Custom Ribbon commands are supported.

I used to be able to get away with deploying apps made using Access 2003 (which is what I use) on any machine, even if they have 2007/2010 or those runtimes by simply setting the properties to use my toolbars and menubars and everything worked perfectly. If that won't work any more in Access 2013 then I might be forced to switch to Access 2010 and convert ALL my menus to ribbons which I am not looking forward to. I don't even know if I can make ribbons that are as compact as menus. Requiring that much screen space means that I ALSO have to convert over all my forms that are designed to fit the screen to occupy less room. THEN I have to deploy the converted application to every computer using my application (that's well over 1000) and change the shortcuts from myapp.mdb to myapp.accde. That's a LOT of work for almost no benefit.

SHADOW
 

Micromax

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I'm trying to distribute an app also. Thanks for letting me know about the changes. I also, don't want to make all those changes, but might have to as well. What a drag.
 

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