boblarson
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Then you would need to take 1997 off the list too.
Access 2013
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But I had dbpix, it was too bigger ask for an Access database to fully understand images, Microsoft was still playing around with Paint whilst Photoshop was the image editor of choice.
My comment about Access 1997- it was a sound version compared with previous versions.
Didn't Access 2003 have a hasty bug that was not resolved until SP3?
Simon
My comment about Access 1997- it was a sound version compared with previous versions.
Didn't Access 2003 have a hasty bug that was not resolved until SP3?
Simon
boblarson
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It was SP3 that actually caused the problem. They had to create a hotfix for it (they eventually fixed the SP I believe). But that had to do with some security stuff they had done due to Windows XP. So, outside of that issue, it has been quite stable and works well. Much better than Office XP.
Oh, and I forgot - Office 2000 was quite stable and good too.
Lightwave
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I actually think there is a central mismatch in many private software companies
The point of digital media is that you can create it once and providing it does the job potentially you don't need to redesign it and you can make infinite copies of it for very little cost and it should never deteriorate.
Potentially therefore if you made a good enough piece of software it would continue doing a job forever.
Looking at other tools this has happened. There's not a lot of companies out there constantly updating the design of a hammer for instance. It does the job and everyone knows that it does.
Software houses on the other hand haven't broken out of the got to continually re-invent their product add more stuff in approach. In database design a lot of the low hanging fruit was picked off with things like fox pro / Access 2003 / filemaker pro. The new stuff being added seems to be quite superfluous a lot of the time. Ribbons ( mainly added to comply with the other office packages ) Web services really designed as a way to hook us into paying for shared services. By having paid staff that are there potentially until they retire there is not a great deal of motivation to design a tool that is so good that they no longer need to be employed.
In actual fact this is where I think open source has advantages. Rather than concentrating on adding new stuff these developers can concentrate on the base product and because they don't have loads of developers available and they are getting paid generally less. They are often designing the software for their own personal use. Thus tools only arise out of need and not out of a desire by marketing and CEO to increase sales. They get paid for using the product generally and not designing it. Therefore productivity and stability of the tool are absolute paramount and the less adjustments they need to make to it once it's up and running the better. Software design is a very difficult process and its not that I think that open source are more talented. Often they're the same developers in both but their side project is the thing they are not allowed to do while at work. Its hard to make good databases and databases are the easy end of software design. What I'm saying is that I think motivation for development is vitally important in the software process and at the moment for Access the motivation of MS is totally in the wrong direction.
I've used some excellent open source software now including
FreeCad
Blender
Inkscape
Celestia
These are very impressive and yes they may have some problems but they are very usable and their positives greatly outweigh their weaknesses which are incidentally constantly being worked on.
To all software companies I urge you
Design for the job & design to complete that job even though it may put the designers and developers out of a job because that's when you know you've done a really good job. Digital media and software has the potential to be immortal you can't re-invent a tool forever so companies will have to lay down their tools someday .. at least do it in style and quit while your ahead.
The more you muck your product up the more space it gives the open source community who thougy they lack resources make up for with focus and time and who have absolutely no motivation to keep developing their product for eternity.
I wrote a database for an outdoor centre. I did one update and they've never asked me back again. Probably my most successful project!! They use it every day.
The point of digital media is that you can create it once and providing it does the job potentially you don't need to redesign it and you can make infinite copies of it for very little cost and it should never deteriorate.
Potentially therefore if you made a good enough piece of software it would continue doing a job forever.
Looking at other tools this has happened. There's not a lot of companies out there constantly updating the design of a hammer for instance. It does the job and everyone knows that it does.
Software houses on the other hand haven't broken out of the got to continually re-invent their product add more stuff in approach. In database design a lot of the low hanging fruit was picked off with things like fox pro / Access 2003 / filemaker pro. The new stuff being added seems to be quite superfluous a lot of the time. Ribbons ( mainly added to comply with the other office packages ) Web services really designed as a way to hook us into paying for shared services. By having paid staff that are there potentially until they retire there is not a great deal of motivation to design a tool that is so good that they no longer need to be employed.
In actual fact this is where I think open source has advantages. Rather than concentrating on adding new stuff these developers can concentrate on the base product and because they don't have loads of developers available and they are getting paid generally less. They are often designing the software for their own personal use. Thus tools only arise out of need and not out of a desire by marketing and CEO to increase sales. They get paid for using the product generally and not designing it. Therefore productivity and stability of the tool are absolute paramount and the less adjustments they need to make to it once it's up and running the better. Software design is a very difficult process and its not that I think that open source are more talented. Often they're the same developers in both but their side project is the thing they are not allowed to do while at work. Its hard to make good databases and databases are the easy end of software design. What I'm saying is that I think motivation for development is vitally important in the software process and at the moment for Access the motivation of MS is totally in the wrong direction.
I've used some excellent open source software now including
FreeCad
Blender
Inkscape
Celestia
These are very impressive and yes they may have some problems but they are very usable and their positives greatly outweigh their weaknesses which are incidentally constantly being worked on.
To all software companies I urge you
Design for the job & design to complete that job even though it may put the designers and developers out of a job because that's when you know you've done a really good job. Digital media and software has the potential to be immortal you can't re-invent a tool forever so companies will have to lay down their tools someday .. at least do it in style and quit while your ahead.
The more you muck your product up the more space it gives the open source community who thougy they lack resources make up for with focus and time and who have absolutely no motivation to keep developing their product for eternity.
I wrote a database for an outdoor centre. I did one update and they've never asked me back again. Probably my most successful project!! They use it every day.
Last edited:
I agree with Lightwave.
There are probably many companies using Access 1997 because it is all they need. To be honest later version of Access were more aesthetically pleasing but there was little in functionality that you could not live without.
I do think that Access 2007 was a major improvement because it moved Access away from OLE and blobs and enabled referential accessing of digital material.
More importantly, the designing a database is about the purpose rather than the process, yes, we have to design and build but using an old adage it might look pretty, but does it work? Bearing this in mind, there is still a lot to be say about understanding the business processes and understanding the requirements rather than simply nice to have.
The problem always arises that the more complexity built into a system the harder it becomes to maintain. We were always taught to keep it simple!
The one thing not to be overlooked is Access is also used as Rapid Application Development tool and is used to produce the Business or Management Information that seems, at times, to be overlooked by the data architecture.
Simon
There are probably many companies using Access 1997 because it is all they need. To be honest later version of Access were more aesthetically pleasing but there was little in functionality that you could not live without.
I do think that Access 2007 was a major improvement because it moved Access away from OLE and blobs and enabled referential accessing of digital material.
More importantly, the designing a database is about the purpose rather than the process, yes, we have to design and build but using an old adage it might look pretty, but does it work? Bearing this in mind, there is still a lot to be say about understanding the business processes and understanding the requirements rather than simply nice to have.
The problem always arises that the more complexity built into a system the harder it becomes to maintain. We were always taught to keep it simple!
The one thing not to be overlooked is Access is also used as Rapid Application Development tool and is used to produce the Business or Management Information that seems, at times, to be overlooked by the data architecture.
Simon
shadow9449
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Ok, I found this link to some actual information on Access 2013:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/jj250134(v=office.15)
SHADOW
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/jj250134(v=office.15)
SHADOW
I have to agree with all the above. I've taken a look at the information on the "What's New fo Access 2013" page and don't like what I see at all. I'd hardly describe myself as some luddite clinging to old technology, but I've got a sprawling ADP which has developed over the last 6½ years and can't afford to chuck all that away to change it some feature-limited web app.
I've been putting off upgrading to 2007 or 2010 due to the hassle of coding the ribbon (even though I can see it offers some nice interface possibilities) and thought I'd skip straight to the new version later this year; now I guess I'll have to concentrate on 2010. In my experience, "everyday" users don't bother with Access and just Excel instead (infact most of them don't even know what Access is for), so I can't understand why MS seems to be tailoring the software around them. Why not instead concentrate on putting some new features that developers might actually use?
I'd love to see some easy to implement, hardware-accelerated eye candy effects, such as animations or transparency. It seems extraneous but used in a tasteful manner I think these can really improve the user experience and it's what users are coming to expect nowadays. Or even better (and it's been said many times) having an easily programmable ribbon!
MS seem to be systematically going through all their good products and destroying them under some misguided notion about making them like an iPad. They already ruined Windows (I've really tried to get used to 8 but I've wiped it and gone back to 7 now) - now they seem intent on ruining Office aswell.
I've been putting off upgrading to 2007 or 2010 due to the hassle of coding the ribbon (even though I can see it offers some nice interface possibilities) and thought I'd skip straight to the new version later this year; now I guess I'll have to concentrate on 2010. In my experience, "everyday" users don't bother with Access and just Excel instead (infact most of them don't even know what Access is for), so I can't understand why MS seems to be tailoring the software around them. Why not instead concentrate on putting some new features that developers might actually use?
I'd love to see some easy to implement, hardware-accelerated eye candy effects, such as animations or transparency. It seems extraneous but used in a tasteful manner I think these can really improve the user experience and it's what users are coming to expect nowadays. Or even better (and it's been said many times) having an easily programmable ribbon!
MS seem to be systematically going through all their good products and destroying them under some misguided notion about making them like an iPad. They already ruined Windows (I've really tried to get used to 8 but I've wiped it and gone back to 7 now) - now they seem intent on ruining Office aswell.
shadow9449
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Extremely well stated. I'm still using Access 2003. My main reasons not to migrate (note that I don't call it "upgrade") are that I don't want to have redo my toolbars and menus and I can't stand the stupid trusted location "security". People using the runtime versions need a registry hack to make it work? Does Microsoft think that virus writers don't know how to make registry hacks that they feel that the headache for legitimate users is really stopping viruses?
One BIG reason I won't migrate to Access 2007 or 2010 is the new extension! I have my main application installed on over 1000 computers at 250 locations across the country. It's not that difficult to release new versions of the program with the new front end called MyAccessAPP.mdb. But I shudder to think of having to release the new app called MyAccessApp.ACCDB and reconfigure all those shortcuts.
And as I said in a previous post, WHY are there so many 3rd party tools to do basic Access tasks? Why can't Microsoft build in a front end updater, relinker, ribbon creator and the myriad other basic tools that people have created, many times for FREE in order to make Access db management more reasonable?
Extended support for 2003 ends in 2014. I will have no choice but to purchase whatever the oldest version with the most patches will be available then but I am not looking forward to it.
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boblarson
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You should purchase 2010 now before the new version comes out. At least that one is not going to look like crap and have a lot more things you'll need to edit your database for. Yeah, you'll have some things to modify due to the Ribbon, but it won't be as much to update if you wait and go to Office 15.
2007????
that what Ive got and TBH I hate it, thank God Ive still got another PC under my desk thats still got 2k3 on it
And I know this is an Acces thread but WTF have they done to excel as well, you cant emport XML from 2007 like you could in prev version, its starts asking you to map out sh*t
As you can see IM not too happy about our recent upgrade
shadow9449
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You're probably right. I'm taking a gamble if 2010 will still be available for purchase in two years (it's possible, I suppose). I just find it hard to spend money on a product with so many known bugs and only one service pack that screwed things up so bad that Microsoft's "solution" was to create ANOTHER update to remove the service pack. And hitherto, no solution to the problems.
I suppose I can buy it now and let the disk collect dust for 2 years...
SHADOW
boblarson
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If you wait, you will only be able to get a copy off of eBay and that can be dangerous as you don't know if it is a legitimate copy or not. When the new version comes out, the old version typically may be around from some retailers for a short while but most of them are returned to Microsoft due to their marketing agreements (I do believe). So getting a copy might be hard to get. I'm just sayin...
shadow9449
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I wouldn't buy software on Ebay. That's a real gamble. I didn't know that the retailers have to return back to MS...what a drag.
Thank you
SHADOW
Wow, this is a disturbing trend by MS. I am disappointed in Windows 8, and now that I see Access 2013 it is continuing the trend of mobile/web support. While that is perhaps the future dominant technology, business is always slow to adopt, and quite frankly I can't see how crunching accounting data, or creating pivot tables, or any of the "standard" requests I get from my customers benefits from a tablet PC or mobile platform. I continually hear that desktops are dead/dying, but someone has to write programs, and I don't see a lot of coding taking place on a mobile device or tablet PC.
Hi
Another shame and I can not understand is the exposure of the password back-end, the MSysObjects table. This ridiculous failure, will be eternal?
The VBA has not been changed by your END is near. Gradually be replaced by MACRO, which is being remodeled and enlarged.
My note is ZERO for this current team of engineers. My note is 10 for the marketing team. I admire those who know how to earn money by taking Milk from a stone.
Since this is a Preview, a lot can change. I hope so!
Another shame and I can not understand is the exposure of the password back-end, the MSysObjects table. This ridiculous failure, will be eternal?
The VBA has not been changed by your END is near. Gradually be replaced by MACRO, which is being remodeled and enlarged.
My note is ZERO for this current team of engineers. My note is 10 for the marketing team. I admire those who know how to earn money by taking Milk from a stone.
Since this is a Preview, a lot can change. I hope so!
boblarson
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Probably
Not really. VBA will be around for quite a while still as it would take a lot to replace it. The macros are being expanded because macros are the only thing that can be used in a WEB database. You can't use VBA in those so the functionality has to be there. The team has said that VBA will still be around.
That is not quite true. Little bits (bugs) can change, but additions and subtractions are finished. If they weren't done in the Technical Preview stage, they won't be done now until at least the next version. The Public Preview is just an expanded bug finding mission before RTM (release to manufacturing).
(and I have had direct contact with the Access Development Team at the MVP Summit in late February of this year.)
Todd Haugen
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Its not clear from reading this thread if people have really looked at the features we added. You can find them here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/office/jj250134(v=office.15) (sorry, it will not let me post the link)
The good new is we have really invested in the web and SQL Server.
The bad news is we have really focused on the Power IW as the target author.
The reality is the overwhelming majority of Access apps today are authored by Power IW and that number is increasing while the number of true developers, such as all the folks here, are moving to other platforms, specifically browsers and phones. With that said, kick the tires and check it out, you can build compelling web databases with this release so fast and easy that you may like it.
The good new is we have really invested in the web and SQL Server.
The bad news is we have really focused on the Power IW as the target author.
The reality is the overwhelming majority of Access apps today are authored by Power IW and that number is increasing while the number of true developers, such as all the folks here, are moving to other platforms, specifically browsers and phones. With that said, kick the tires and check it out, you can build compelling web databases with this release so fast and easy that you may like it.
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shadow9449
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Does anyone know what "the Power IW" is? I did some web searches with no success.
SHADOW
SHADOW
boblarson
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