Is OOP actually useful? (1 Viewer)

MajP

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DocMan,
I believe you are confusing Composition with Inheritance. I have demonstrated on this site multiple examples of composition. Composition is a class with class variables that are themselves objects. So you can build a class that takes a control as a property of the class. Using withevents you can capture the events of the control within the class. You can look at my find as you type examples which encapsulates all functionality in the class, but you can turn any combo, listbox into an FAYT with a single line of code.
 

The_Doc_Man

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MajP, since I am somewhat inexperienced in deep use of OOP, I would have to defer to your opinion.

Having said that, I will state with absolute certainty that in a strongly-typed language (take PL/1 for a case in point), the behavior of NZ with regard to the second parameter being 0 or "" would qualify as a polymorphic function because strongly typed languages even treat strings of length 20 and 40 (when declared as specific lengths) to be different data types. The data types of the call parameters are considered part of the call, and polymorphism would suggest that (in this case) you would define NZ twice. Once with the 2nd arg being numeric and once with it being text. Then the compiler and linker would have to work together to pick the correct invocation.

If this difference is too fine a point to qualify for polymorphism, then it is one that wasn't that well covered in the articles I read.
 

vba_php

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those aren't bad articles jdraw, but it makes me wonder where AI and machine learning fits into all of this...?

someone once asked me if their job was in danger due to increasing AI and I told them that nothing, not even a machine, can ever replace the human brain. The mind is an endless resource of continually expanding creativity and problem solving. no machine can ever compare because it always has to learn what humans create first.
 

Galaxiom

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no machine can ever compare because it always has to learn what humans create first.

Not at all. You don't understand how AI works. It is very similar to biological evolution.

Basically the process starts with sets of random routines being applied to a problem and their results tested against known correct answers. The sets with the worst results are culled. The rest are randomly regrouped and reapplied to the problem. Random changes are also applied to the individual routines.

After millions of iterations the best sets of routines reliably give accurate results even when applied to inputs where the correct answers are not previously known.

Nobody even knows how the winning routines work, they just know they do and accept it. This of course can be dangerous if it the set of routines has never experienced something that happens to the inputs.
 

vba_php

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Not at all. You don't understand how AI works. It is very similar to biological evolution.
not. I think in this situation my friend, we might have to settle on the concept of "lets agree to disagree".
 

vba_php

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I didn't get much out of that article, but I understand what it's talking about. The history section mentioning Alan Turing is pretty relevant. I've read about him and have seen The Imitation Game with Benedict Cumberbatch. He's quoted as saying something like "the only way to beat a machine is with another machine" (or something like that, referring of course to cracking the enigma machine).

Perhaps you would care to explain your understanding of AI.
I'm no expert dude, but just the term, artificial says it all doesn't it? I mean, seriously, in terms of AI taking more of the daily duties than human beings? I seriously doubt it. If the government or large companies even tried to push that crap there would be so much backlash from the general public that they would prolly have to retreat their efforts. I would assume if they pushed it hard enough, and if human beings were not taken properly care of if it even did take effect, it would eventually result in a war. But many experts are still insisting that this whole takeover of AI will actually happen. Check out these links:

https://www.google.com/search?q=basic+universal+income+will+be+the+future
 

The_Doc_Man

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Adam, since you are familiar with Alan Turing and The Imitation Game, you would perhaps recognize this paraphrase from when A.T. is being interviewed by the police, having been picked up on suspicion of homosexuality. The detective has studied A.T. and asks about his cybernetics work and about whether machines think.

In the discussion, A.T. suggests that we have an arrogant viewpoint of thought. Just because something else reaches conclusions in a different way, is that a reason to not call it thought?

I had a discussion similar to this with my late uncle in the 1970s, when AI was coming up in magazines and news articles. My argument was this: We do not know the mechanism of human thought. We cannot map out the pathways and neuron interactions that lead to chains of thought, of idea sequences, of whatever it is that we do. Therefore, when we say "artificial intelligence" the truth is that we still don't really know what "natural intelligence" entails either.

Now let's be honest. In the history of Mankind, we have NEVER needed to actually know what we were doing to go forward full-throttle. So that lack of knowledge about how the brain works isn't a barrier to research. Might still be a barrier to understanding, but that's not relevant. Where I'm going with this is that for us to characterize AI vs. NI in some biased way is arguing from ignorance.

We use NI because with (most of) us, it is innate. Computers have to use AI 'cause they don't have NI. But for us to denigrate AI is probably not polite. It is a form of elitism. (And if anyone is asking, yes... my tongue IS partly in my cheek while typing.)
 

vba_php

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In the discussion, A.T. suggests that we have an arrogant viewpoint of thought. Just because something else reaches conclusions in a different way, is that a reason to not call it thought?
I guess it's not. that's a good point. but is this stance of yours spose to be a retraction of my claim that AI will never take over? I still think my stance is very good common sense, in terms of the human desire to survive and be needed.
 

MajP

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and yet another Access/vba/inheritance reference for consideration
From Jdraw

Am I the only one who was blown away by this? I been doing vba for 20 years and have read everything I could. I had no idea that you could define an interface. Never seen an example anywhere. Interfaces are not really inheritance, but kind of acts like it. It is a little clumsy with the name changes, but pretty cool.
 

kevlray

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I never took the AI course in college (many years ago and it was a Masters level course, I just have my BS). But the required reading was 'When Harlie Was One' by David Gerrold. But I did read the book (I graduated about the time the IBM PC came out). It is a interesting concept of a computer being very aware of it's existence.
 

jdraw

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Another link re Implements -this from M$oft


It mentions VB in the sample code, but it is from
Docs /Office VBA Reference /Language reference /Reference/ Statements/ Implements /

MajP, I know Steve Bishop was excited and you also recognize this "mostly hidden" feature. Can you overview in simple terms for the rest of us-the significance -what it means/where it applies/why it's a 'discovery'? A sample scenario my help put it all in context.

Also here is a link to Rubberduck info that discusses status and future (sort of). Since several comments on the recent "Access the database that won't die" mention the fact that the VBE hasn't really changed in years and Access is quite antiquated- even though it is used in lots of orgs, is this a candidate for such a change, or is it a side issue that really won't get any real focus. I'm trying to assess your "enthusiasm" with what it might mean generally.
 
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Galaxiom

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There are other VB features that are supported but are obscurities in VBA.

A For Each enumeration can be added and property of a custom class can be specified as the default. However this cannot be done within the VBA editor but by adding attributes to an exported class then importing it back in.

Here is an extensive thread covering the topic.
 

Galaxiom

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I'm no expert dude, but just the term, artificial says it all doesn't it? I mean, seriously, in terms of AI taking more of the daily duties than human beings?

Here is an example of what AI comes up with. The doctors have no idea how the AI developed algorithm achieved results that are so superior to human readings of the data.

They don't know how it works because it was developed by the random combination and selection by fitness process I described earlier in this thread.

AI will take over many human jobs because it gets better results.
 

vba_php

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AI will take over many human jobs because it gets better results.
that's a very interesting read, but I sure as hell don't want any info on when i'm going to pass on. It'll come soon enuf. As far as AI taking over, I stand by my insistence that humans won't let it happen simply because of their desire to work in life and earn what they get (at the very least, respect). What the hell r we to do if AI starts handling all the daily tasks that are meant for humans!? sit at home all day and watch tv? But then again, those damn corporations always get their way, so if this whole thing does come to pass, I'm guessing it will result in what i've already pointed out:

https://www.access-programmers.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=1651205&postcount=29
 

The_Doc_Man

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is this stance of yours spose to be a retraction of my claim that AI will never take over?

Not at all, but I have two thoughts to offer.

First: How do we know it hasn't started already? Consider the current furor over the the fact that folks who say something around their phone start getting targeted ads within minutes. Who needs salesmen any more? AI has taken over that position.

Second: One must always remember that a computer's attention span is no longer than its electrical cord.
 

vba_php

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Who needs salesmen any more? AI has taken over that position.
this is not true for recruiters and headhunters. they are still going strong, not to mention going through candidates like freakin water!
 
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