Better Ballots In Elections (1 Viewer)

[Mike Krailo]

Of course, in the US every state has their own election rules, but whatever the rules are, if there is no way to audit the results fairly by both sides, it's meaningless. Aside from the VoterID being a sensible move, I had the idea that when using any electronic voting system of any kind, there should be a simple and fair way for both sides to immediately have accounting to each and every vote cast. Doesn't matter whether it's mailed in or not, each voter must be verified or the vote doesn't count.

So if any of you have some good idea's for how this best be done, just add your 2 bits worth below. My idea would be for the voting machines to be verified by both sides to be in working order and not require any type of maintenance of any kind. Especially the part that prints the paper ballot or prints on the paper ballot. If the machine doesn't print or malfunctions in any way, there should be a plan for the votes to be cast on manual paper ballots (no exceptions). This should not be a difficult thing to do. You fill out the ballot manually and get help from someone working the area the voting takes place.

The physical construction of the ballot is such that the computer prints the selected results on the paper ballot in three different places. Once for the top main part of the ballot so that the computer can quickly read in and count the votes. Then in two other parts close to the bottom where each of the parties involved can hand count their respective votes individually. The bottom part of the ballot is cut from the bottom and divided into two pieces (one for each parties representative). This makes it possible to verify the vote that was cast three different ways. The chain of custody would be three different entities and neither party would have access to all three. The two paper votes that go to each party are only used in the event that there is a dispute with the counting of votes, or a recount is needed. Maybe the ballot can be diced up automatically by the machine. Each representative has access to only there respective side when collecting the ballots later to lock up for auditing purposes. How those paper ballots are kept is obviously critical for chain of custody.

So for mail in ballots, there has to be a lot more effort involved for each person to verify their entity IMO. If they don't show up on election day, they are going to have to do more work to prove who they are in advance. That's only fair for those that do show up and have to have their drivers license checked. Just signing your name on a ballot is not enough when you show up in person, so each person must photo copy or scan in their drivers license (front and back) onto the actual ballot. This is easy to do in advance by uploading this document file to a state website that can process this information and mail you your specially prepared ballot that has your drivers license clearly printed on the ballot. If you don't want to go through this extra trouble, then show up on election day and vote like everyone else. No more excuses for not making the elections easy to validate and audit the results. No VoterID required if done this way.

I think VoterID should be absolutely mandatory when mailing in a ballot if no photo copy of driver license or ID is provided directly on the ballot. You request this in advance and are issued the VoterID as you must get verified to get the VoterID to begin with. This will take care of all the whiners that want to mail in their vote. Fine, you want to mail it in and your not in the military on an overseas assignment, then get your VoterID and cast your ballot via mail. Go right ahead. The only exception is for overseas military that cannot be physically present for obvious reasons. If that is the case there should be a special ballot just for the military members. If anyone can think of a better or more of a simple way to do this, I'm interested in hearing different idea's.

 

[Steve R.]

Good thought provoking post. I don't have any additional thoughts to contribute concerning the voting machines themselves, My comments pertain to managing the voting process.

• Voting should be restricted to a one or two day window.
• Early voting should be eliminated.
• Vote harvesting should be eliminated.
• Prohibit the mass mailing of ballots. (Ballots may be requested bu the voter on an individual basis.)
• No drop boxes.
• Automatic voter registration at the time you get a drivers license should be eliminated.
• Proof of US citizenship when registering.

The points below go beyond your question and would also involve significant Constitutional challenges. Basically just tossed in to serve as potential discussion points.

• Raise the voting age to 25, except for those in the military or have been honorable discharged from the military.
• Limit voting to those who are not dependent on government assistance (welfare).

 

[AccessBlaster]

You would need to protect against a state of emergency or a new pandemic in which they might suspend the constitution. You know just until the election is over.

Just kidding, that could never happen

 

[Steve R.]

There is a flaw in the apportionment process for the US House of Representatives. Apportionment is based on the US census. Unfortunately, the apportionment process is based on the word "persons" instead of the expected word "citizens". Regretfully, this means that non-citizens are counted in determining how many Representatives each state is entitled too. Consequently, large urban centers with a large number of non-citizens get "extra" Representatives that they are not entitled too.

 

[Mike Krailo]

That flaw Steve needs to be corrected for sure. You would think that it would be self evident that a non citizen is never able to vote, but due to the crazy twisting of the law and throwing out the value of the constitution lately, it should be made very clear. The other way they get around it is to simply give all the illegals citizenship anyway. That's what happens when the party of evil is in control. They do whatever they please like opening the borders and saying the border is secure at the same time.

Anyways, I have a feeling that mail in ballots are here to stay. Once they realized how effective it is at cheating using this method, they are not going to give that up ever. So if that's what they want, let's make the ballots for mail in's super secure. That was the main idea I was trying to get across. The trouble is, the election boards in these swing states are the one's that really need this sort of revision and they likely don't want to change anything to make it harder to cheat in elections. It's like we need to prove to them that their system is corrupt by doing some voting tests and show them how unsecure it is. Bring in experts and show them all the flaws in the current method for validating ballots that are mailed in.

The idea that a pandemic can occur means that there has to be provisions for that scenario and making it secure. I just thought, if you cannot show up in person, you should also include a clear photograph of yourself with the ballot or as I stated above, integrate it onto the ballot itself. The idea is to make it more of a hassle to vote by mail so no one does it to begin with. It should not be easy to vote by mail so that no one ever wants to vote in person again. That is a very bad road to go down for the whole country unless the process is made very secure.

I also agree that ballots must be requested by the voter. There are far too many people who don't vote, and then those people who didn't show up on election day can be listed via computer into a table of known present voters, known mailed in voters, and subtracting all the printed ballots, they can easily know which votes were unused and manufacture extra votes from those results.

BallotsGenerated - (CastBallots + MailedInBallots) = PotentialExtraVotes

That is the votes that are magically found under the table well after election day. This is why it's so important to have rules in place that ensure the votes are counted on election day and weeks later. There is nothing secure about delaying the results of the election until you can come up with the required amount of votes to swing the election.

 

[Pat Hartman]

The physical construction of the ballot is such that the computer prints the selected results on the paper ballot in three different places

The computer shouldn't be printing a receipt. If your system uses electronic machines, the ballot printed should be plain text and fed into a scanning machine for counting. OR, the voter should fill in the bubbles on a preprinted ballot. None of these tiny ballots with barcodes that no one reads. I don't even like the electronic fill in machines. I prefer the fill in the bubbles and simple scanner design.

In either case, EACH ballot MUST have a unique ID. This prevents ballots from being scanned multiple times as we saw in Georgia and it also prevents bogus ballots from being added in later. The authority that prints the ballots needs to publish the id range for mail-in ballots, so we know how many were printed. They also need to publish the count for how many were requested and how many were sent out --- BEFORE election day. All mail-in ballots must be returned by US mail and franked by the post office so we can verify the mailed date. The USPS also keeps scanned images of all mail pieces. These records must be kept for at least two years or until any election challenge is settled. The election authority also needs to publish ahead of time, the number of registered voters for each polling site as well as the number of ballots sent to each site.

There must be three separate reporting methods when the polling sites report results to headquarters. And, all three MUST balance. Any discrepancy must be explained and signed off on by at least three officials. A Republican, a Democrat, and an independent or third party. No more of these "we're stopping counting for the night because it's past our bedtimes" and then big spikes in votes for one side or the other happen overnight. Or even worse, negative spikes.

I tried multiple times to interest my local election team in implementing some of my basic accounting ideas. Ballots are more valuable than money and they should be given the same respect as cash. They were having none of it. They are 100% certain that our election couldn't be stolen. Of course, we have proof that the election in Bridgeport (an adjoining town) was stolen and they use the exact same methodology that we use so call me crazy but there is nothing to stop the same shenanigans in my town.

 

[Mike Krailo]

I was thinking about the unique ID thing as well, and that is a very simple thing to do for accountability purposes.

They also need to publish the count for how many were requested and how many were sent out --- BEFORE election day. All mail-in ballots must be returned by US mail and franked by the post office so we can verify the mailed date. The USPS also keeps scanned images of all mail pieces. These records must be kept for at least two years or until any election challenge is settled. The election authority also needs to publish ahead of time, the number of registered voters for each polling site as well as the number of ballots sent to each site.

Agree totally.

There must be three separate reporting methods when the polling sites report results to headquarters. And, all three MUST balance. Any discrepancy must be explained and signed off on by at least three officials. A Republican, a Democrat, and an independent or third party. No more of these "we're stopping counting for the night because it's past our bedtimes" and then big spikes in votes for one side or the other happen overnight. Or even worse, negative spikes.

That's kind of where I was going with the three part ballot.

I tried multiple times to interest my local election team in implementing some of my basic accounting ideas. Ballots are more valuable than money and they should be given the same respect as cash. They were having none of it. They are 100% certain that our election couldn't be stolen. Of course, we have proof that the election in Bridgeport (an adjoining town) was stolen and they use the exact same methodology that we use so call me crazy but there is nothing to stop the same shenanigans in my town.

It needs to be demonstrated how the current system is faulty. Experts come in and test the chain of custody and if there are ways to cheat the system. Saying something is foolproof without proving that it is does nothing. Suddenly science doesn't matter anymore.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Suddenly science doesn't matter anymore.

The Dems seem to have their own version of science to go along with their own versions of Democracy and justice and even the definitions of common English words.

It needs to be demonstrated how the current system is faulty.

They simply do not wish to see the problems. Not a single person I spoke with was even remotely interested in talking with me about potential changes to make elections more secure. They are like all civil servants anywhere. They were not interested in anything that might involve work for them regardless of what it was for.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I do like the suggestions, but it's obvious people are not following existing voting rules. So creating new rules will have little impact.

Coupled with all republican candidates are some incarnation of Hitler and must be defeated at all costs mentality.

 

[Mike Krailo]

Then we need a voting integrity law to force these lazy people to do their job.

 

[AccessBlaster]

We better get started then

 

[Mike Krailo]

I'll put it on Mike Johnson's desk right away.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Johnson's top priority now should be to make sure that the FISA court is not reauthorized. I'll never forgive Trump for signing this bill after what the FBI did to him and his people. He should never have signed it without actual punishment for the lies told to get illegal warrants during his term and rules changes to prevent future abuses and PUNISH future liars.

 

[Isaac]