FYI re the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment (1 Viewer)

[Mike Krailo]

What income group got the biggest benefit from the Trump tax cut. After it passed he told his rich friends an Mar A Lago "Now your really rich."

Tell that to poor folks who experienced both the trump and the crime family years, and get back to me on that. Better yet, we'll see how many of them vote according to the obvious differences between the two. Then after the puppeteers dump joe for failing in the debate, we'll see who we are actually voting for. Inflation attacks every class except the rich.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

What income group got the biggest benefit from the Trump tax cut.

Would that question be in reference to actual dollars or dollars as a percent of income?

And let's not even BEGIN to think of what the progressives are now considering... a WEALTH tax. What they don't take from you this year, they'll take next year until you have nothing left. Sorry, but that is when the guns come out. Take a look at the recent Spanish protests in Uncle G's "Similar threads" article.

 

[jpl458]

Tell that to poor folks who experienced both the trump and the crime family years, and get back to me on that. Better yet, we'll see how many of them vote according to the obvious differences between the two. Then after the puppeteers dump joe for failing in the debate, we'll see who we are actually voting for. Inflation attacks every class except the rich.

You didn't answer the question, So here is the answer:

The law will boost the after-tax incomes of households in the top 1 percent by 2.9 percent in 2025, roughly three times the 0.9 percent gain for households in the bottom 60 percent, TPC estimates. The tax cuts that year will average $61,090 for the top 1 percent — and $252,300 for the top one-tenth of 1 percent.

Your post was emotional, not logical or factual.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Your post was emotional, not logical or factual.

People don't only listen to logic or facts. If they feel betrayed by facts or logic, they will still try to vote you out of office. Side effect of being human.

 

[Steve R.]

Your post was emotional, not logical or factual.

Ironic of you to assert that claim since virtually all your posts are emotional anti-Trump tirades.

 

[Pat Hartman]

What income group got the biggest benefit from the Trump tax cut.

What income group actually pays taxes? Let us not forget that in any given recent year ~ 47% of wage earners pay NO INCOME TAX. It's hard to give tax breaks to people who start out at zero. Duh!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mike Krailo]

Then there are the illegals who pay no taxes. Looks like they benefit the most right now at the expense of others.

 

[Steve R.]

What income group actually pays taxes? Let us not forget that in any given recent year ~ 47% of wage earners pay NO INCOME TAX. It's hard to give tax breaks to people who start out at zero. Duh!!!!!!!!!

There is an additional consideration. Many of the low income earners actually pay a negative income tax. That is they pay no taxes and also receive subsidies (welfare) in various forms.

The article below provides some insight into this.

Who pays, and doesn't pay, federal income taxes in the U.S.?

Since 2000, there has been a downward trend in average effective tax rates for all but the richest taxpayers.

www.pewresearch.org

After refundable credits were figured in, taxpayers with AGIs below $30,000 (including those with no AGI or with negative AGI) collectively got back more than $78.6 billion from the IRS in 2020. For taxpayers with AGIs between $1 and $15,000, their average effective tax rate fell to ‑14.8%, from ‑10.3% in 2019, largely due to coronavirus pandemic-related federal relief efforts, some of which were structured as tax credits.

 

[Pat Hartman]

There is an additional consideration. Many of the low income earners actually pay a negative income tax. That is they pay no taxes and also receive subsidies (welfare) in various forms.

Some also get cash "refunds" based on the earned income credit. This is what the 89,000 IRS agents with g u n s are needed for. There is an enormous amount of cheating at the low income levels especially for those who do cash work. The IRS agents are NOT needed to audit the rich. Those people have special tax breaks which reduce their income because members of the legislature take care of them and unless they have offshore accounts and layers of LLC's (like the Biden's) which are beyond US scrutiny, then their income is hard to hide. No one gets paid 100,000 per week in cash unless they're running drugs.

 

[Mike Krailo]

The IRS agents are NOT needed to audit the rich. Those people have special tax breaks which reduce their income because members of the legislature take care of them and unless they have offshore accounts and layers of LLC's (like the Biden's) which are beyond US scrutiny, then their income is hard to hide.

Didn't you mean easier to hide?

 

[moke123]

The IRS agents are NOT needed to audit the rich.

Quite the opposite. Auditing the rich is labor intensive and the extra agents are needed to do so. Take trumps 500+ LLC's for instance. Irs agents don't have the time to comb through all the LLC's. The rich get passed over for the low hanging fruit.

 

[Steve R.]

Quite the opposite. Auditing the rich is labor intensive and the extra agents are needed to do so. Take trumps 500+ LLC's for instance. Irs agents don't have the time to comb through all the LLC's. The rich get passed over for the low hanging fruit.

Biden wants everyone(else) to pay their "fair share", yet Biden uses relatives to hide behind an enormous number of LLC to hide their income. Seems that the IRS is conveniently overlooking Biden's "fair share" tax obligations.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Take trumps 500+ LLC's for instance. Irs agents don't have the time to comb through all the LLC's.

Always about Trump. It must be really hard for you to have that man alive and well and living in your head. You are aware that Trump's primary business is real estate, right? You are aware that general practice in real estate is a separate LLC per property, right? This is for liability purposes, BTW. It keeps a slip and fall from getting more than the property where they had the accident. Then for a large enough business, there may also be a C corp as a holding company. On the other hand, what exactly, do the Biden LLC's do except for laundering money? Do they sell any products, offer any services aside from influence peddling? Trump's LLC's are real businesses. Not fake ones intended only to launder money.

The problem with auditing the rich is that they have good accountants which are paid to find all the loopholes. They don't need to cheat. And with banks and other financial institutions providing info directly to the IRS, you really can't hide big money. It is the small people who need to cheat. Take a look at the IRS statistics and see what percentage of audits apply to each strata of income. It isn't the rich that provide the best ROI. I think I posted those stats a while ago.

I'm sure you've heard Trump mention that he, his businesses, and his children get audited with some regularity. He also talks about taking advantage of the loopholes to minimize his taxes. WHY should he pay more than the law requires? Just because you don't like him? Not a good reason.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Here's a couple of interesting charts from:

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/GO/GO00/20230426/115808/HHRG-118-GO00-20230426-SD003.pdf

Actual number of audits for 2019. I couldn't find actual numbers for a more recent year but I did find percentages so you can assume the numbers of returns rise slightly each year.

Recommended Additional tax:
Looking at this chart, you see that the return per hour is highest for the $5 M+ category. But the second and third lines are for the two lowest income groups.

Percent of recommended taxes collected:
But then contrast how much of the excess ended up being collected and the rich win big time since the IRS is dealing with accounting firms rather than people who are at the lowest income levels.

And this comment from a different site pulls it together:

Comparative Returns on IRS Audits by Income Groups

www.nber.org

For a taxpayer with TPI between the 90th and 99th percentiles, the deterrence-inclusive return is in excess of $12 per dollar spent on auditing. In contrast, they estimate a return of $5 for audits of taxpayers with below-median income.

That means that if you add the first two categories together and multiply by the expected $5 you get $1,795,175 per hour but if you add the other three categories together and multiply by $12 you get $332,724 per hour. But if an agent is only averaging $5 or $12 per hour, wouldn't it be cheaper to just cancel the IRS and save their salaries which have to be (fully burdened) in excess of $100 per hour???

So, interestingly, the money obtained via audit is coming from the working people (under $200 k), not the rich. That is the group that the extra 79,000 extra IRS agents with g u n s are going to audit. If you audit 100% of the $10 M + group, you get an extra $288,000 per hour. Numbers wise, there just aren't that many rich people compared to the numbers of poor people.

 

[moke123]

Inside the IRS unit taking on America’s millionaires and billionaires - ICIJ

The U.S. Internal Revenue Service is seeking to use an infusion of funding to keep up with the ever-evolving tax maneuvers of the ultra-rich — while staving off frequent political attacks.

www.icij.org

 

[AccessBlaster]

It's hard to imagine the ultra rich would pass rules governing their own wealth. That might explain the need for 85,000 new agents.

 

[Steve R.]

The solution is to simply have a flat tax. The unfortunate reality, is that the politicians and the special interest groups actually want a byzantine tax code with lots of loopholes. This allows "favored" entities to get away with "fraud", while those who are out-of-power (disliked) get nailed for abusing the tax code (that no one can actually figure out).

 

[Pat Hartman]

Also, even if you get advice from the IRS itself, it is your fault if your deduction is later questioned.

There are too many people and companies invested in a Byzantine tax code. Going to a flat tax or even just cutting 90% of the deductions would put all of them out of work.

 

[Pat Hartman]

roughly three times the 0.9 percent gain for households in the bottom 60 percent, TPC estimates.

Maybe, they shouldn't include the 47% who do not pay any tax in that calculation and so they can calculate the result on 13% of the people who are the taxpayers who will bet a cut. That seriously drags down the results for the 13% who are benefiting.

You can do pretty much anything you want with statistics when you control the calculation. That is why I included the chart with the actual number of people who filed returns as well as the actual number of returns that were audited. Remember the 97% of scientists lie?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Remember the 97% of scientists lie?

Whereas I never lie. Except at the poker table. I've found that statistically, I stay out of trouble better when telling the truth. PARTICULARLY to my dear wife.