Government Spending

[Isaac]

Unfortunately much of what makes up the military budget is off the books or black budget items making it impossible to put a figure on it.

I didn't know that

 

[Steve R.]

The quote below bears repeating, since the members of Congress have little incentive to actually control (restrain) spending. Moreover, there is little incentive for the government to control spending under Modern Monetary Theory, which holds that: "According to MMT, governments do not need to worry about accumulating debt since they can create new money by using fiscal policy in order to pay interest.". Creating "new money" undermines the very meaning of what money is supposed to represent, which is "wealth". Wealth being real physical assets that you can touch, such as a house and/or gold. The net consequence of Modern Monetary Theory is inflation.

The quote below, has often been attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville. Evidently, according to CheckYourFact, that's not true. Nevertheless it perfectly sums up what Congress is doing. Bribing many through the promise of welfare. Needless to say, those craving welfare would vote for those politicians thereby exacerbating limitless deficit spending.

The American Republic Will Endure Until The Day Congress Discovers That It Can Bribe The Public With The Public’s Money’.

 

[Isaac]

The quote below bears repeating, since the members of Congress have little incentive to actually control (restrain) spending. Moreover, there is little incentive for the government to control spending under Modern Monetary Theory, which holds that: "According to MMT, governments do not need to worry about accumulating debt since they can create new money by using fiscal policy in order to pay interest.". Creating "new money" undermines the very meaning of what money is supposed to represent, which is "wealth". Wealth being real physical assets that you can touch, such as a house and/or gold. The net consequence of Modern Monetary Theory is inflation.
The quote below, has often been attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville. Evidently, according to CheckYourFact, that's not true. Nevertheless it perfectly sums up what Congress is doing. Bribing many through the promise of welfare. Needless to say, those craving welfare would vote for those politicians thereby exacerbating limitless deficit spending.

It's a good point, but sometimes I feel like something even more nefarious is happening.

The problem of a few people (half of America who pays taxes) paying for everyone else's lives will continue to get worse and worse, because we allow people with no skin in the game to vote. Why should people who pay no taxes vote ??? All they're going to do is keep voting against the taxpayers to get more $ from them. And of course, more and more people will then join the side who gets to vote without paying taxes - ultimately shrinking the taxable group so small that either 1) they'll revolt, and it will be a strange revolt against the poorer people paying no taxes but getting lots of gov services, or 2) they'll be unable to sustain the benefits that the tax-less side wants.

As long as we allow people with zero investment in the system to vote themselves benefits from the system, this problem will get worse and worse and worse.

 

[Steve R.]

we allow people with no skin in the game to vote

In responding to this thread, I actually left out our prior discussion where we discussed this very issue.
We discussed this in the thread: "Once Again Republicans Blink and Sellout to Democrats".

As you wrote: "As long as we allow people with zero investment in the system to vote themselves benefits from the system, this problem will get worse and worse and worse." This is a serious situation. It will also get worse with the influx of illegal immigrants who will be demanding resources (humanitarian aid) that they are not entitled too.

 

[Isaac]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I believe that all people should pay taxes or else people who do not pay taxes should not vote.
"No taxation without representation" can be equally applied in the reverse.

And I do not think it is cruel to say poor people with low incomes should pay taxes. Enter the whole concept of a percentage. 10% hurts all of us the exact same amount of hurt no matter what you make.

This is also why the Tithe concept works well. If all Christians tithed 10%, our churches would be much better equipped to help the world as they currently do, and this is one practical reason why Mormons are so successful and tend to lead happy, connected lives. Their participation in their community is REAL, since money is about as real as it gets, and their leadership has everything they need to help their members in need.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Enter the whole concept of a percentage. 10% hurts all of us the exact same amount of hurt no matter what you make.

That's not really true. The poorer you are, the larger the percentage of your income goes to survival needs so the more paying any amount in taxes would hurt. I don't like the flat tax unless the exempted minimum is at least $30,000 for single or a couple and $40,000 with children. People living on SS are not on the dole. The government took money from them at gunpoint for their entire working lives with the promise of giving it back at retirement with interest. If you know anything about how actuaries calculate risk, you would know that SS is not a bargain since the "system" pays out as little as it possibly can and anyone who breaks even based on the current value of money has won the SS lottery.

The biggest problem with our tax code is not the rates, it is the exemptions. If you remove ALL exemptions for individuals except the one above, then a graduated scale that goes from 1% to 10% at ~ $200,000 will probably bring in more revenue. We could retain some deductions such as cost of goods, wages, and R&D for businesses. BUT, and this is huge, there is a large ecosystem that revolves around taxation that would be destroyed by removing the deductions so this is never going to happen. The tax code will continue to be byzantine and require the help of an accountant for anything more than the most basic of returns. Anyway, what would we do with those new 87,000 IRS agents with guns? They wouldn't have anyone to audit but they'd still have the guns.

But, I agree, if you don't pay taxes, you should not get to vote on how my taxes are spent.

 

[Isaac]

But, I agree, if you don't pay taxes, you should not get to vote on how my taxes are spent.

But since they're never going to accept/agree on a proposal that essentially denies poor people the right to vote, I think everyone being required to pay something that they actually feel is the only other option?

 

[Isaac]

Opinion | Why Georgia's Medicaid expansion isn't helping expand health care

Republican Gov. Brian Kemp's minimal expansion of access to Medicaid comes with work requirements and is languishing amid low new enrollment.

www.msnbc.com

This article is a good 'window' into how liberals think.

I took away two core concepts in their worldview from this article.

1) Any effort required to get a government benefit can be seen as an unfair tax. I.E., you have to spend time filling out paperwork, ergo, that's wrong and should be eliminated so that getting the benefit requires zero effort.

2) The goal is actually to get people ON welfare. Notice how throughout the article, they keep acting as if few people signing up is a failure, their goal was as many people as possible to get on this government benefit. They never even broach the possibility that the goal is actually the opposite!

 

[Pat Hartman]

But since they're never going to accept/agree on a proposal that essentially denies poor people the right to vote, I think everyone being required to pay something that they actually feel is the only other option?

I agree. You have to have your own money in the pot one way or another.

 

[Pat Hartman]

People on the dole can be controlled. Why would inner city blacks continually vote against their best interests to keep the Democrats in power?