Gun laws do they work

[Brianwarnock]

Thanks spikepl for helping Dick, I also think that he does not understand the definition of a thug but I will let him learn to use a dictionary

Brian

 

[Dick7Access]

Thanks spikepl for helping Dick, I also think that he does not understand the definition of a thug but I will let him learn to use a dictionary

Brian

Brian,
That's not like you. I don't consider you the average liberal. You don't usually attack the person. I still consider you a nice person.
As you well know Brian there is a vast difference between your English, and my English. Why there is a vast difference between between different parts of my own country. As far as Gun lobby, NRA etc. the post from most liberals is they are treated as if they are some group of just a bunch of a few rich guy who are trying to control the whole country. I know for a fact that they/we/me are the majority of people in this country. We want this country safer as well as others, but we know that taking guns away from everybody will make it worst and make it a police state. There are many in our country that wanting to take guns away has nothing to do with safety or fewer deaths. (not all)
Brian let me treat you to the best Chinese Buffet in the whole USA, and Texas.
(although I am in TX right now and I have just been treated to a C.B. that will match thoes we have in FL

 

[Dick7Access]

My dictionary seems to agree with me. Maybe you don't have an American dictionary.
Main Entry: thug
Pronunciation:*th*g
Function:noun
Etymology:Hindi & Urdu *hag, literally, thief
Date:1810

: a brutal ruffian or assassin : GANGSTER, TOUGH, THIEF
–thug£gery \*th*-g(*-)r*\ noun
–thug£gish \*th*-gish\ adjective

 

[Frothingslosh]

Actually, Dick,

1. Polling has consistently found that the number of Americans who are pro-gun-control have outnumbered the Amercians who are pro-gun-rights fairly significantly. The very first study I found via Google (http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx) was a page of Gallup polls, indicating that
   
   
   • Gun ownership has, from 1960 to 2013 (when the poll was taken) ranged from 37% to 51% of households, with the average appearing to be low-40%.
   • While support for stricter gun control has dropped from 78% in 1990 to 47% in 2013, support for WEAKER gun control has only raised from 2% to 14% over that same period.
   
   That indicates to me that the NRA and Gun Lobby are, indeed, a distinct minority in the US, albeit an obscenely loud one.
2. I speak virtually the same English you do (Great Lakes Accent in my case), and I understood Brian to mean the plural (as in members of the gun lobby) just fine. That is, indeed, what "are" means - it is perfectly legitimate to use the plural in that fashion, it's just not COMMON in the US. Hell, I even understand Brits when they refer to 'sport' rather than 'sports', or 'maths' rather than 'math'.
3. Define the 'average liberal'. Every time I see a conservative do that, when they segue into discussion tactics, they end up describing their own instead. My interactions with Blade are not a good example, as that was personal after he launched one too many personal attacks against me. Also, please keep in mind that even American liberals are generally considered conservative by the rest of the world. We Americans are pretty much seen as a combination of the Wild West and Victorian England, without the fancy clothing.
4. I would love to know the best Chinese Buffet in the entire US. The ones in Flint SUCK.
5. Thug definitions:
   
   
   • Merriam-Webster: a brutal ruffian or assassin
   • Oxford Dictionary: A violent person, especially a criminal.
   • American Heritage Dictionary: A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum.
   • Collins English Dictionary: a tough and violent man, esp a criminal
   • Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary - a vicious criminal or ruffian.
   • The American Heritage Roget's Thesaurus: A person who treats others violently and roughly, especially for hire.
   
   Nope, nowhere that I can find is it just a synonym for 'thief'. The ACTUAL definition is why black folks are so up in arms about how often any black person is called a thug these days, no matter what they're doing. Even peaceful protesters are being called thugs if they're black.
   
   Using 'thug' to mean 'thief' is like using 'inferno' to describe your tiny little campfire, especially when there's the perfectly precise 'burglar' to already specifically describe someone breaking into a home. "Thug" implies violent behavior that your linked article gives ZERO proof of.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I would love to know the best Chinese Buffet in the entire US. The ones in Flint SUCK.

San Francisco or Los Angeles is where I would start, not Texas.

​

 

[Frothingslosh]

San Francisco or Los Angeles is where I would start, not Texas.

​

I wouldn't make that assumption. After having lived in several Michigan cities plus St Louis, Richmond, DC, and Seattle, and visited many, many, many more, the best Mexican restaurant I have ever found is a hole-in-the-wall in Flint. Body armor optional.

 

[Dick7Access]

Actually, Dick,

1. Polling has consistently found that the number of Americans who are pro-gun-control have outnumbered the Amercians who are pro-gun-rights fairly significantly. The very first study I found via Google (http://www.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx) was a page of Gallup polls, indicating that
   • Gun ownership has, from 1960 to 2013 (when the poll was taken) ranged from 37% to 51% of households, with the average appearing to be low-40%.
   • While support for stricter gun control has dropped from 78% in 1990 to 47% in 2013, support for WEAKER gun control has only raised from 2% to 14% over that same period.
   
   That indicates to me that the NRA and Gun Lobby are, indeed, a distinct minority in the US, albeit an obscenely loud one.
2. I speak virtually the same English you do (Great Lakes Accent in my case), and I understood Brian to mean the plural (as in members of the gun lobby) just fine. That is, indeed, what "are" means - it is perfectly legitimate to use the plural in that fashion, it's just not COMMON in the US. Hell, I even understand Brits when they refer to 'sport' rather than 'sports', or 'maths' rather than 'math'.
3. Define the 'average liberal'. Every time I see a conservative do that, when they segue into discussion tactics, they end up describing their own instead. My interactions with Blade are not a good example, as that was personal after he launched one too many personal attacks against me. Also, please keep in mind that even American liberals are generally considered conservative by the rest of the world. We Americans are pretty much seen as a combination of the Wild West and Victorian England, without the fancy clothing.
4. I would love to know the best Chinese Buffet in the entire US. The ones in Flint SUCK.
5. Thug definitions:
   • Merriam-Webster: a brutal ruffian or assassin
   • Oxford Dictionary: A violent person, especially a criminal.
   • American Heritage Dictionary: A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum.
   • Collins English Dictionary: a tough and violent man, esp a criminal
   • Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary - a vicious criminal or ruffian.
   • The American Heritage Roget's Thesaurus: A person who treats others violently and roughly, especially for hire.
   
   Nope, nowhere that I can find is it just a synonym for 'thief'. The ACTUAL definition is why black folks are so up in arms about how often any black person is called a thug these days, no matter what they're doing. Even peaceful protesters are being called thugs if they're black.
   
   Using 'thug' to mean 'thief' is like using 'inferno' to describe your tiny little campfire, especially when there's the perfectly precise 'burglar' to already specifically describe someone breaking into a home. "Thug" implies violent behavior that your linked article gives ZERO proof of.

Your polls do not agree with the polls I have read. I am on the road for the next three weeks so don’t ask me to look them up. I not only don't have the time, but don't have the desire, as you wouldn't believe it anyways. My personal polls by the way is 98% for card carrying. Yes I admit I am surrounded by people of like mindedness. It's easier that way. For starts, however the NRA has doubled in the last three years. However each side will find the poll that agrees with their per-disposed opinion. Yes, me too.

Your dictionary agrees with mine. If someone is coming thru my window he is a;

• [FONT=&quot]Merriam-Webster: a brutal ruffian or assassin[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Oxford Dictionary: A violent person, especially a criminal.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]American Heritage Dictionary: A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Collins English Dictionary: a tough and violent man, esp a criminal[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary - a vicious criminal or ruffian.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]The American Heritage Roget's Thesaurus: A person who treats others violently and roughly, especially for hire.[/FONT]

Using 'thug' to mean 'thief' is like using 'inferno'
[FONT=&quot]Yes that is were we are in the USA today: in a inferno. White, Black or Asian. Don’t come thru my window, car, house, pockets, face, etc. etc. etc. and I won’t call you a thug. I am sorry you don’t like the word, but that is what they are. Come to me, “hat in hand” and I will help you all that I can.

[FONT=&quot]Wow! we act[FONT=&quot]ually agree on something. The C.B. in Flint Suck

[FONT=&quot]Oc[FONT=&quot]al[FONT=&quot]a, FL Ocean Buffet, and City [FONT=&quot]B[/FONT]uffet on Rt. 200 the best, and I have eaten in C.B. in 22 states and more than one city in some states. I must say this week th[FONT=&quot]e one in Longview, TX is probable [FONT=&quot]as good as Ocala[FONT=&quot], FL. Better since I didn't have to pay for it.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Dick7Access]

San Francisco or Los Angeles is where I would start, not Texas.

​

I have eaten at two different C.B. in San Francisco and they were good. Too long ago to make a fair comparison. Then again who really thinks C.B. in S.F. Fisherman's Pier is the place to be. Worst one was in Jacksonville, FL. (Sorry Jax old buddy)

 

[Dick7Access]

I am always amazed how a simple question.

Originial question:  Does anybody out there real believe this woman did not have the right legally and morally to kill this thug?

can lead to defining of words, polls, and favorites restaurants. Yet no one has answered to come right out and say "Yes, she was wrong to shoot him."

 

[Frothingslosh]

Your polls do not agree with the polls I have read. I am on the road for the next three weeks so don’t ask me to look them up. I not only don't have the time, but don't have the desire, as you wouldn't believe it anyways. My personal polls by the way is 98% for card carrying. Yes I admit I am surrounded by people of like mindedness. It's easier that way. For starts, however the NRA has doubled in the last three years. However each side will find the poll that agrees with their per-disposed opinion. Yes, me too.

Your dictionary agrees with mine. If someone is coming thru my window he is a;

• [FONT=&quot]Merriam-Webster: a brutal ruffian or assassin[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Oxford Dictionary: A violent person, especially a criminal.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]American Heritage Dictionary: A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Collins English Dictionary: a tough and violent man, esp a criminal[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary - a vicious criminal or ruffian.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]The American Heritage Roget's Thesaurus: A person who treats others violently and roughly, especially for hire.[/FONT]

All you're showing here is your lack of mastery of the English language. The word 'thief' appears nowhere in the above listing, and if you think 'coming through the window' is the same as 'brutal ruffian, cutthroat, or assassin' then there is something seriously wrong with you. "Officer, I shot the guy on the other side of the street because he gave me an angry look. OBVIOUSLY he was about to kill me."

Using 'thug' to mean 'thief' is like using 'inferno'
[FONT=&quot]Yes that is were we are in the USA today: in a inferno. White, Black or Asian. Don’t come thru my window, car, house, pockets, face, etc. etc. etc. and I won’t call you a thug. I am sorry you don’t like the word, but that is what they are. Come to me, “hat in hand” and I will help you all that I can.

Wow, yeah, maybe you should take English classes. Getting "DA EBUL CRIMNALS ARE OVERWHELMING US GOOD GUYZ" out of "inferno" is...pathetic. And you still don't know what the word 'thug' means, obviously. Here, I now decree "conservative" to mean "dogfucker". From now on, any time the word 'conservative' is used, it only means "people who ra** animals". See, I can make up my own meaning for words too!

[FONT=&quot]Wow! we act[FONT=&quot]ually agree on something. The C.B. in Flint Suck

[FONT=&quot]Oc[FONT=&quot]al[FONT=&quot]a, FL Ocean Buffet, and City [FONT=&quot]B[/FONT]uffet on Rt. 200 the best, and I have eaten in C.B. in 22 states and more than one city in some states. I must say this week th[FONT=&quot]e one in Longview, TX is probable [FONT=&quot]as good as Ocala[FONT=&quot], FL. Better since I didn't have to pay for it.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

If I'm ever in Ocala, Florida, I'll check it out.

Yet no one has answered to come right out and say "Yes, she was wrong to shoot him."

You're the only one here who is going to say "Yes, anyone breaking into my house will be executed in cold blood, no matter what." As I said in my response, if he was no longer a threat, it becomes murder. In England, it's murder, period, and most of the others responding have been British.

 

[Dick7Access]

All you're showing here is your lack of

Sorry you don't like my mastery of the English language, but you come
through my window, you are all of the fore mention names. If you come thru my window, I will apologized for the lack of the right name after I pull the trigger.
If you come thru Ocala and I am home I will treat.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I wouldn't make that assumption..

It's a pretty safe assumption, I have been to Texas. And about 20 states including Mexico and Canada.

 

[Dick7Access]

As a rule, there is what's called a 'Castle Doctrine' in the US, which sums up as the resident having the legal right to defend their home with lethal force in case of a home invasion. Some states require there to be an actual threat, but many, if not most, simply allow you to shoot someone if they're in your home as the result of, say, a B&E. The idea behind it is that the very act of invading your home is a direct threat against the safety of you and your family.

Personally and right off the cuff, my feeling on this case is that if he was threatening her (even if he didn't have a gun, she wouldn't know he was unarmed), then it was justified. She is under no obligation to wait for him to try to kill her first, as he's already engaged in a crime that often ends violently for the victims if they're home.

If she ambushed him, I'm torn pretty much down the middle - it would bother me that she didn't give him a chance to surrender, but then again, only an idiot GIVES someone the chance to kill them, and there are too many cases where burglars have hurt or killed the residents, either out of fear or because they didn't want to be described to police.

If he was non-threatening (surrendered, hands up, whatever), then it was murder. If that was the case, then she could have easily called the cops and held him there at gunpoint.

Also, for your British types, my understanding is that handguns are illegal in Britain, so of COURSE your cops would arrest her for shooting the guy.

I sincerely apologize for missing this post. I agree 97.9 percent. I suppose that entailed you to two Chinese buffet. Then you could help me decide if Ocean Buffet is better than City buffet

 

[Dick7Access]

Hey,
Brits, Let me get this straight. In your neck of the woods you either let a criminal come into your house, and harm your family, or go to jail for life. Do I have that correct?

 

[Brianwarnock]

Hey,
Brits, Let me get this straight. In your neck of the woods you either let a criminal come into your house, and harm your family, or go to jail for life. Do I have that correct?

Nope, it's not as black and white as that. I'm appalled that the presence of someone in your house uninvited gives you the right to kill them no questions asked, as Scott pointed out we do not have the full story but the link did not suggest that the intruder was violent and if you read my original post it was your use of the term thug that was my main critisicim.

Also , if we are going to discuss points that are ignored, nobody has commented on my opinion that if home owners can shoot without any risk of legal action then surely the criminals will go armed and shoot first, ie violence begets violence, which appears to be the situation where you live, what a horrible life.

Brian

 

[Rabbie]

Hey,
Brits, Let me get this straight. In your neck of the woods you either let a criminal come into your house, and harm your family, or go to jail for life. Do I have that correct?

No you don't! You are allowed to use reasonable and proportionate force to prevent injury to yourself or your family or any other guests in your house. A very small proportion of housebreakers in the UK are actually armed and the proportion of households where there are weapons is even lower so this is not a very common issue. Most robberies of private houses take place when the house is unoccupied

 

[Frothingslosh]

I suppose that entailed you to two Chinese buffet. Then you could help me decide if Ocean Buffet is better than City buffet

ROFL

Deal.

 

[Frothingslosh]

No you don't! You are allowed to use reasonable and proportionate force to prevent injury to yourself or your family or any other guests in your house. A very small proportion of housebreakers in the UK are actually armed and the proportion of households where there are weapons is even lower so this is not a very common issue. Most robberies of private houses take place when the house is unoccupied

To be fair, most B&E's in the States are done while the resident isn't home, too. The burglars are just as aware as the homeowners how violent things can get, and that most of the gun owners in the States keep a gun right by the bed for protection in that precise scenario.

I believe I've read that most burglaries are actually performed during the day, because there is far less chance of someone being home.

 

[Dick7Access]

Nope, it's not as black and white as that. I'm appalled that the presence of someone in your house uninvited gives you the right to kill them no questions asked, as Scott pointed out we do not have the full story but the link did not suggest that the intruder was violent and if you read my original post it was your use of the term thug that was my main critisicim.

Also , if we are going to discuss points that are ignored, nobody has commented on my opinion that if home owners can shoot without any risk of legal action then surely the criminals will go armed and shoot first, ie violence begets violence, which appears to be the situation where you live, what a horrible life.

Brian

Brian, notice I did not use "thug" because I know you don't like that term. Maybe I should have started a whole new thread, because as far as I am concerned. "Thug" thing is over. I think it applies, and you don't. So what's new. This is a sincere new question. What are you folks in Jolly Old England suppose to do, if someone breaks into you house?

 

[Dick7Access]

No you don't! You are allowed to use reasonable and proportionate force to prevent injury to yourself or your family or any other guests in your house. A very small proportion of housebreakers in the UK are actually armed and the proportion of households where there are weapons is even lower so this is not a very common issue. Most robberies of private houses take place when the house is unoccupied

Does reasonable force Include a gun?