In case anyone thought racism in America was dead . . .

[Alisa]

I think Obama is wrong for America, regardless of your skewed perception (or rhetoric).

So is it that you don't think McCain wants to bomb Iran, and all of his statements to that effect are just irresponsible saber rattling, or is it that you think it is a good idea to bomb Iran?

 

[Rich]

I think Obama is wrong for America, regardless of your skewed perception (or rhetoric).

The guy is on record as wanting to bomb Iran, how's that a skewed perception?

 

[georgedwilkinson]

It has been documented that minorities were offered subprime mortgages even when their credit scores qualified them for standard fixed rate mortgages.

Where is the documentation? Does it include duped white people? And could you explain to us why it matters that I was given a subprime mortgage when my credit was good enough to qualify me for a regular mortgage?

It has also been documented that a black defendent is more likely to have the death penalty imposed than a white defendant for an equivalent crime. I don't really want to go into a debate on those points though.

Why not? Isn't it key to your argument that racism is rampant?

I think that the different perceptions of Obama vs. McCain are more relevant at the moment. I am intrigued that people think Obama doesn't share their values. Here is a man that has been married once, for 20 years, never divorced, and has two children. Isn't that pretty representative of American "values"?

On the other hand, you have a man who has been divorced more than once, and who has admittedly cheated on his wife. Why do people think McCain shares their values? Is it because they also believe in divorce and infidelity?

I don't think either of them share my personal values. The only one of the lot who is anything like me is Sarah Palin.

However, between Obama and McCain, McCain is the one who has more political values in common with me. I just can't stomach liberal politics.

And it has nothing to do with divorce. Many people make mistakes in their choice of mates. The greatest president in the US was re-married to a fine woman.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I realise that my other post was ignored and so I guess this one will be, perhaps I should leave this thread to the Americans, but not one of the obvious Republicans has commented critically, I nearly said sensibly but thought that unkind, on the 1st post, all they seem to have done is reply, and you can almost hear the whine in their voices, "The Democrats are just as bad", so I guess that answers the question posed by the thread title.


Brian

 

[Alisa]

I realise that my other post was ignored and so I guess this one will be, perhaps I should leave this thread to the Americans, but not one of the obvious Republicans has commented critically, I nearly said sensibly but thought that unkind, on the 1st post, all they seem to have done is reply, and you can almost hear the whine in their voices, "The Democrats are just as bad", so I guess that answers the question posed by the thread title.


Brian

Didn't mean to ignore you, please join in.

 

[dkinley]

I realise that my other post was ignored and so I guess this one will be, perhaps I should leave this thread to the Americans, but not one of the obvious Republicans has commented critically, I nearly said sensibly but thought that unkind, on the 1st post, all they seem to have done is reply, and you can almost hear the whine in their voices, "The Democrats are just as bad", so I guess that answers the question posed by the thread title.

Brian

Hehehe ... I very much agree with your previous post. But it in my opinion, it was political-bating guised as true concern for racism (instead of how we get it on the news) but the drivel tires me out so am not part of this disussion since it is off the mark.

-dK

EDIT: I should say just an observer and not an active part. I mean, who doesn't like a good car crash?

 

[Alisa]

Where is the documentation? Does it include duped white people? And could you explain to us why it matters that I was given a subprime mortgage when my credit was good enough to qualify me for a regular mortgage?



Why not? Isn't it key to your argument that racism is rampant?



I don't think either of them share my personal values. The only one of the lot who is anything like me is Sarah Palin.

However, between Obama and McCain, McCain is the one who has more political values in common with me. I just can't stomach liberal politics.

And it has nothing to do with divorce. Many people make mistakes in their choice of mates. The greatest president in the US was re-married to a fine woman.

You can't stomach values like upholding our constitution, reigning in irresponsible corrupt government spending, and strengthening America's position in the world?

 

[georgedwilkinson]

Breaking News! Africans actually enslaved themselves!

Really? I didn't know that. Was it recent?

I had heard that black Africans had sold slaves to white traders back in the early days...is that what you mean? Or is this more recent?

Or are you mixing what happened over a hundred years ago up with the bigotry and malice of today's racists?

 

[Alisa]

The fact that the article is produced for political reasons, doesn't, if the facts are correct, lesson the indication of the racial aspect of American life.

A point that should not be ignored!

 

[georgedwilkinson]

You can't stomach values like upholding our constitution, reigning in irresponsible corrupt government spending, and strengthening America's position in the world?

No, I like those things, that's why I'm voting McCain/Palin.

 

[Alisa]

Really? I didn't know that. Was it recent?

I had heard that black Africans had sold slaves to white traders back in the early days...is that what you mean? Or is this more recent?

Or are you mixing what happened over a hundred years ago up with the bigotry and malice of today's racists?

You can't sidestep the issue of systemic racism by pointing out that there are people of all colors that are intolerant.

And I would disagree with your earlier point anyway - speaking out against oppression doesn't make you racist. Even speaking out radically doesn't make you racist. I would say that the vast majority of what I call "hate speech" (as opposed to free speech) is conducted by whites and is focussed on demonizing immigrants, poor people, people of color, etc etc.

 

[Alisa]

No, I like those things, that's why I'm voting McCain/Palin.

Right, because supporting a kajillion dollar bailout for their rich donors bodes well for reigning in government spending

 

[Rich]

I realise that my other post was ignored and so I guess this one will be,

Brian

Don't loose any sleep over it Bri, I'm still waiting to learn what the mission is in Iraq

 

[Alisa]

No, I like those things, that's why I'm voting McCain/Palin.

And starting wars with Iran and Russia would really make sense for improving our standing in the world

 

[georgedwilkinson]

I realise that my other post was ignored and so I guess this one will be, perhaps I should leave this thread to the Americans, but not one of the obvious Republicans has commented critically, I nearly said sensibly but thought that unkind, on the 1st post, all they seem to have done is reply, and you can almost hear the whine in their voices, "The Democrats are just as bad", so I guess that answers the question posed by the thread title.


Brian

Sorry, I didn't see your other post. I don't think I'm whining, and I've given evidence that the Republicans aren't racist at all, but that the Democrats (i.e. members of the OP's party) are not "just as bad", they are worse, being the outright racists. They have in fact tricked minorities into somehow believing that they are good for minorities/women.

And I've also given evidence that just as bad things can happen to white people as happen to black people. But somehow we trudge on.

Can you be specific about who was whining and how they failed to address the issue? I'm not likely to address an issue without getting to the point as to whether the argument is based on anything real.

 

[Banana]

Well, I know better than to walk in flamebait, but I can't resist, so make it crisp, please! Hold the mayo!


Yes, rascism is a serious problem. It is so unfortunate that the Civil Rights movement has been largely spat on and dismissed in favor of "group equality". It is because of Affirmative Actions, Equal Employment Opportunity, War on Drugs, racial quotas, and so many things promising to eliminiate racism by promoting group equality has ruined everyone all around.

The fact is that nobody is created equal, equipped with equal abilities. However, in eye of law, every individual is equal to other peer, and that should be the sole yardstick. The membership of individual WRT race, religion, and social standing is totally irrelevant. The fact is that every time we try to equalize a group's perceived or real social wants, we are perpetuating the racism.

Not until we go back to the Civil Rights movement, which was all about re-claiming the *individual* equality, demanding that *individual* be equal in the eye of law, with *no* treatments for *any* one else, the racisim isn't going away anytime soon.


Oh, yeah... and quit playing the race card. Let's talk about merits, mmmkay?

 

[georgedwilkinson]

Right, because supporting a kajillion dollar bailout for their rich donors bodes well for reigning in government spending

Gotta set you straight here. Obama is for the $700 billion bail out of the financial industry. McCain (and seemingly Joe Biden) seems to oppose it.

BTW, I'm with Obama on this. Unlike many conservatives, I have absolutely no problem with government spending, as I've said in the past.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

And starting wars with Iran and Russia would really make sense for improving our standing in the world

I don't know of anybody in any country on any side of the debate who wants that.

 

[Alisa]

Gotta set you straight here. Obama is for the $700 billion bail out of the financial industry. McCain (and seemingly Joe Biden) seems to oppose it.

BTW, I'm with Obama on this. Unlike many conservatives, I have absolutely no problem with government spending, as I've said in the past.

Obama is not for a blank check bailout.
So you don't have a problem with the fact that we are slowly but surely mortgaging ourselves to the Chinese?

 

[Banana]

Gotta set you straight here. Obama is for the $700 billion bail out of the financial industry. McCain (and seemingly Joe Biden) seems to oppose it.

And to set you straight, McCain & Palin has gone on the record saying that bailout is sadly necessary.

As I said before, there's no real difference between McCain & Obama.

BTW, I'm with Obama on this. Unlike many conservatives, I have absolutely no problem with government spending, as I've said in the past.

I'll have to disagree- every tub must stand on its bottom.



Alisa- Yes, he is.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA: Today, I fully support the efforts of Secretary Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Bernanke to work in a bipartisan spirit with Congress to find a solution of this sort. What we’re looking at right now is to provide the Treasury and the Federal Reserve with as broad authority as is necessary to stabilize markets and to maintain credit.

SEN. JOHN McCAIN: To deal with the immediate crisis, I will lead in the creation of the Mortgage and Financial Institutions trust, the MFI. The underlying principle of the MFI or any approach considered by Congress should be to keep people in their homes and safeguard the life savings of all Americans by protecting our financial system and capital markets.

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