Las Vegas

[AnthonyGerrard]

This highlights what I believe is where the 2nd Amendment is flawed, or at least it's current manifestation.

The Pro Gun lobby state that people with guns defend themselves. Apart from someone in the armed forces, why would you need a fully automatic weapon with mass killing potential, to "defend yourself".

I have not found one solid example of someone so armed "defending themselves...", intimidating others, killing others, pretending to be in the army, or plain gun mad yes.

By all means, if you are so inclined, get yourself a hand gun or even a manual shot gun to "defend yourself". No problem with that. Very difficult to kill dozens of people and injure 100's, with that type of weapon.

Just don't let anyone outside of the armed forces near a fully or even semi-automatic assault weapon. Totally unnecessary.

In Nevada - a state with very liberal gun control - not one of teh good guys with a gun took down the bad guy with a gun. Not much protection offered in this case.

 

[ColinEssex]

Having blown off some steam, Col, I hope you are well tonight. I don't hate you. I just hate your attitude.

Cool. I don't hate you, in fact if I wasn't me, I wouldn't like me much either.

I think what annoyed me was that this horrendous attack happened on my birthday yesterday and spoils my day. I feel for the grieving relatives, I can't imagine what they are going through.
Another annoying thing is the matter-of-fact attitude of some Americans, dare I say they appear to shrug shoulders and accept it as the norm then go to church on Sunday then go out killing animals for fun Sunday afternoon.

America will not change, even if it did it wouldn't work no matter who was in power. There is no answer, you are right of course.

Col

 

[scott-atkinson]

The Constitution is an outdated piece of Legislation it was written I believe at the birth of a nation that had freed itself from the tyranny of us Brits..

The 2nd Amendment formed part of that law so that the citizens of this new nation could defend themselves in this time of change and turmoil...

It is outdated now and needs to be scrapped, but no American Government is going to do that...

The money that would be lost from Gun sales, Taxes, etc.. would be too much
It would be a logistical nightmare of confiscating weapons or buying weapons back from individuals...
It would be a Vote Loser and would most definitely take the President who suggests it down..

Instead, I believe the way forward would be a reform of the 2nd Amendment, allowing Americans to own certain types of weapons, and licenses required to own other types, and background checks carried out on these individuals including Mental Capability tests..

Yes you can still bar arms, but only certain types of arms, and if you want anything else then you need to belong to a licensed Gun Club and undergo yearly background and mental tests and the Gun Clubs licenses reviewed each year ..

Money would still role in from individuals and Clubs renewing their licenses each year

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Cool. I don't hate you, in fact if I wasn't me, I wouldn't like me much either.

I think what annoyed me was that this horrendous attack happened on my birthday yesterday and spoils my day. I feel for the grieving relatives, I can't imagine what they are going through.
Another annoying thing is the matter-of-fact attitude of some Americans, dare I say they appear to shrug shoulders and accept it as the norm then go to church on Sunday then go out killing animals for fun Sunday afternoon.

America will not change, even if it did it wouldn't work no matter who was in power. There is no answer, you are right of course.

Col

I like you Col. - But then I dont live with you like you do! ;-)

 

[Vassago]

I think the most truthful quote I have seen is from The Onion:

"Americans Hopeful This Will Be Last Mass Shooting Before They Stop On Their Own For No Reason" is the most truthful headline I have seen.

If we take no action, then nothing will stop it from happening again.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

V., I don't know what to suggest because too many ideas have been tried by too many states and none of them seem to work. Though the 2nd amendment is in place, it is a states' rights issue as to the details of "concealed carry" or "open carry" or "no carry any time, not now, not ever, never." All I know is that a crook is going to get a gun if he wants one, so we have to make it too expensive for him to get one. But not in dollars and cents.

I'm currently leaning towards REALLY stiffening the laws on gun use during a crime as an automatic +5 or +10 years on the sentence, and double that if the gun is actually fired, and double that AGAIN if the bullet hits someone. But unfortunately, that will just make the gun-toting miscreant that much more likely to adopt the attitude of "You'll never take me alive" and then commit suicide-by-cop.

The REAL solution is lost on this generation. Schools need to have an aggressive anger management program (if "aggressive anger management" isn't an oxymoron). Kids need to learn that arguments don't have to end in violence. There IS such a thing as talking it out and shedding no blood. But that just doesn't seem to be part of modern society.

In a way, I blame the liberal psychologists who overdid the "you can't blame the kid because he was raised that way" mantra. To a certain limit, I would think that the old Biblical "spare the rod and spoil the child" has merit. But never as an excuse to draw blood and leave permanent scars. The problem there is again, moderation in all things including punishment. But when a kid gets that "wild hair" and becomes totally out of control, what do you do? How far can you take it?

Again, no good answers present themselves and the societal problems are all intertwined.

 

[NauticalGent]

I refrain from giving my opinion on these subjects, quite frankly, I'm just too. damn. tired to fight anymore.

That being said, for the American citizens reading this post, your answer is not with whatever clown sits in the Oval Office...he/she is just a clown. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you can move on and start working on how to really fix what you feel is wrong.

Act locally, call your representative get your like-minded friends to the same. Sitting on your ass, fighting in a forum about what one jack-ass in the White House is or isn't doing only serves the status quo...

 

[Mark_]

Please let us all remember something very important regarding ownership of weapons, restrict one type and you encourage use of others.

Tell the IRA they can't purchase a rifle and you find they do, plus enough explosives to drop a flat.

Limit who can own a pistol and you have those willing to use violence driving through crowds.

The very sad truth is access to weapons isn't nearly the root issue, it is individuals willing to commit these acts that is the true problem. For a moment, pretend the sad man who committed this horrible act had no access to firearms but did have access to a rental, petrol, and fertilizer. Rather than 50 some dead we'd be reading about hundreds killed by an explosion.

Not to long ago one lunatic with a backpack full of explosives killed how many at a concert? The issue is not "Guns". That is too simple and answer.

 

[ColinEssex]

I actually feel sorry for Americans having to live in a place where there are over 300 million guns floating about. Plus the millions of people - men, women and children happy to kill any living thing, it's a recipe for disaster.

Yes, in Europe, we have multi-death incidents, but usually they are conducted by foreign terrorist organisations like I.S., obviously they don't feel the need to cause mayhem in the USA, Americans are so good at it themselves without outside help.

The answer to Americas problems? No bloody idea. I know it's best to stay clear though. 350 people a week are killed by the gun in the USA, that a jumbo jet full of people.
Imagine the outcry if one jumbo jet crashed every week, what would happen?

Col

 

[NauticalGent]

BTW, Happy Birthday wanker...

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Please let us all remember something very important regarding ownership of weapons, restrict one type and you encourage use of others.

Tell the IRA they can't purchase a rifle and you find they do, plus enough explosives to drop a flat.

Limit who can own a pistol and you have those willing to use violence driving through crowds.

The very sad truth is access to weapons isn't nearly the root issue, it is individuals willing to commit these acts that is the true problem. For a moment, pretend the sad man who committed this horrible act had no access to firearms but did have access to a rental, petrol, and fertilizer. Rather than 50 some dead we'd be reading about hundreds killed by an explosion.

Not to long ago one lunatic with a backpack full of explosives killed how many at a concert? The issue is not "Guns". That is too simple and answer.

The shooter must have been having a benevolent day then. To choose the less dangerous quasi automatic gunfire into a crowd?

In context here's the recent history of all terrorist deaths in the UK. Guns . Bombs, trucks. .not for decades have all combined exceeded the death total in a year this.man.managed on his own in.minutes. I'm not sure the ira had a single attack that got near the Las Vegas death toll.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/many-people-killed-terrorist-attacks-uk/
I'm also guessing a lot of explosive attacks have been foiled in their planning..Not something likely when the tools needed for Las Vegas could all be bought legally and used essentially for the purpose the were produced. Whilst I can see the problem of gun proliferation and introducing gun control. Legal automatic and tools to turn semi into automatic is nothing short of dumb.

Of course there is bad people everywhere. Most places don't allow them guns firing hundreds of rounds a minute. Of course they could hire a truck tough. But is better to save them the bother and supply the guns intstead. Just like the us did the ira. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro...sional_Irish_Republican_Army_arms_importation
The average ira member gave up their guns sooner than the average American nra member.

 

[Mark_]

AnthonyGerrard,

Couple months ago a back pack bomb killed 22 in Manchester. Replace the portable back pack with something... bigger... able to hold tons. Think what an explosion like that would do to a crowd packed together.

Yes, I'm very grateful a very disturbed individual spent time and effort getting weapons to shoot from several hundred meters rather than parking a dozen away and letting it go off. Gunfire is lethal. Explosives mixed with shrapnel can be far more deadly.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

AnthonyGerrard,

Couple months ago a back pack bomb killed 22 in Manchester. Replace the portable back pack with something... bigger... able to hold tons. Think what an explosion like that would do to a crowd packed together.

Yes, I'm very grateful a very disturbed individual spent time and effort getting weapons to shoot from several hundred meters rather than parking a dozen away and letting it go off. Gunfire is lethal. Explosives mixed with shrapnel can be far more deadly.

Ah the us gun laws aren't a problem . They are a blessing. I'll leave it there. Madness.

 

[scott-atkinson]

AnthonyGerrard,

Couple months ago a back pack bomb killed 22 in Manchester. Replace the portable back pack with something... bigger... able to hold tons. Think what an explosion like that would do to a crowd packed together.

Yes, I'm very grateful a very disturbed individual spent time and effort getting weapons to shoot from several hundred meters rather than parking a dozen away and letting it go off. Gunfire is lethal. Explosives mixed with shrapnel can be far more deadly.

The difference is that Guns in America can easily be purchased and purchased legally, it takes very little effort to lift a gun and squeeze the trigger, and then you would also get the (sick) thrill of watching people run as you shot them from afar.

A vehicle packed with explosives would be a lot more difficult to set up, rent or buy the vehicle, buy direct explosives, probably illegally, buy fertilizers legally and then spend weeks or months trying to get the mixture right without killing yourself, then building a receptacle big enough to hold enough of it to do some damage, build a discharge device...the list goes on...

The point I am making is if you limit the access to legal deadly weapons, this atrocity may not have happened as a lot more planning and work would have had to have gone into it to have the same effect and only the most dedicated psychopath would do that...

 

[Mike375]

The difference is that Guns in America can easily be purchased and purchased legally, it takes very little effort to lift a gun and squeeze the trigger, and then you would also get the (sick) thrill of watching people run as you shot them from afar.

A vehicle packed with explosives would be a lot more difficult to set up, rent or buy the vehicle, buy direct explosives, probably illegally, buy fertilizers legally and then spend weeks or months trying to get the mixture right without killing yourself, then building a receptacle big enough to hold enough of it to do some damage, build a discharge device...the list goes on...

The point I am making is if you limit the access to legal deadly weapons, this atrocity may not have happened as a lot more planning and work would have had to have gone into it to have the same effect and only the most dedicated psychopath would do that...

Many years ago in central Australia a semi trailer driver went to a motel with his wife and kid. Obviously problems had been brewing as a big domestic fight. He had no gun so went outside to his semi and then drove it through his room and of course it went through the rest of the motel.

With a gun he would have killed his wife, kid and himself. With the semi he also killed ten others.

Our second biggest massacre was a bloke who set fire to a packed night club. From memory he killed in the high 20s.

For mass killing the gun is not the best. You should hope that the day does not come when the gun is not available anymore and more deadly means will be used.

As to the gun from memory it is not that long ago that a bloke in Norway killed 69?? people. So not just America.

Lastly, we should being seeing mass shootings every day in Switzerland given their gun situation.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Many years ago in central Australia a semi trailer driver went to a motel with his wife and kid. Obviously problems had been brewing as a big domestic fight. He had no gun so went outside to his semi and then drove it through his room and of course it went through the rest of the motel.

With a gun he would have killed his wife, kid and himself. With the semi he also killed ten others.

Our second biggest massacre was a bloke who set fire to a packed night club. From memory he killed in the high 20s.

For mass killing the gun is not the best. You should hope that the day does not come when the gun is not available anymore and more deadly means will be used.

As to the gun from memory it is not that long ago that a bloke in Norway killed 69?? people. So not just America.

Lastly, we should being seeing mass shootings every day in Switzerland given their gun situation.

Port Arthur - 35 died - all shot. Nothing else comes close in numbers. Nightclub fire was 15, and if you mean Douglas Crabbe - he killed 5.

The myopic rose tinted glasses you gun advocates wear are scary! It my not be best - its bloody effective though, and its easy. Far too easy. Why make it easy?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I am sorry that some people think that USA gun rights advocates wear myopic or tinted glasses. But our problem isn't guns.

I have to wonder if the issue is that in a world of ever-increasing visibility of threats to our survival en masse from issues like global climate change; racial tension leading to riots; economic inequality driving the other tensions; sudden massive migration of Islamic people leaving a violent homeland; and all of it plastered in our faces from sensation-mongering news media, that people's frustration level has just reached a breaking point.

The guns are one means of acting out, but riots and hatred seem to be increasing no matter how the worst of those frustrated people choose to act out. Idiots driving cars into crowded streets at speed? Why use 750 grains of lead when you can drive nearly a ton of steel?

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

I am sorry that some people think that USA gun rights advocates wear myopic or tinted glasses. But our problem isn't guns.

I have to wonder if the issue is that in a world of ever-increasing visibility of threats to our survival en masse from issues like global climate change; racial tension leading to riots; economic inequality driving the other tensions; sudden massive migration of Islamic people leaving a violent homeland; and all of it plastered in our faces from sensation-mongering news media, that people's frustration level has just reached a breaking point.

The guns are one means of acting out, but riots and hatred seem to be increasing no matter how the worst of those frustrated people choose to act out. Idiots driving cars into crowded streets at speed? Why use 750 grains of lead when you can drive nearly a ton of steel?

I dont know why - but in the US the gun is the mass murder weapon of choice. Clearly. I'd suggest cos its too easy.

Plus - being cowardly - they most of the time dont want to get caught. So trun the gun on themselves. Suicide by car or truck and taking out as many as possible would seem far harder and likely to fail.

Guns are just too easy.

 

[kevlray]

Unfortunately since there are so many guns in the US. It would be nearly impossible to out right ban them. Then there are the thousands of hunters who shot game every year (a number of people in Alaska would go hungry in the winter).

 

[Minty]

But I presume they don't use a fully automatic assault rifle for that purpose?
Or do they like their game pre-minced?

As others have said, don't make it so easy to get a weapon of mass murder. Anyone can drive a car into a crowd. They don't even need to mean to do it. They could have had a heart attack.

Owning and using an assault rifle only has one purpose. Killing things en-mass. That's what it is designed to do.

All the other methods mentioned take effort, planning and use something outside of it's design remit.