The Kennedy family (1 Viewer)

[Marlin47]

Given what is widely known about the Kennedys from Joe and Rose down, plus the fact that certainly John and Robert Kennedy attracted the ire of so many powerful groups of people, the least of which was the Mafia, I am astonished that :-

A. There are still Americans who accord the Kennedys a saint like status.

B. No more is done to inform the people of the World as to quite what wretchedly nasty people they were.

Are Americans so blind to the deficiencies of this family that they allow themselves to be hoodwinked so easily ?

 

[Marlin47]

What is your country of origin?

In the country of my origin we would normally expect such a direct question as yours to be supported by at least a brief explanation as to the reason for asking it in the first place.

Mind you, I think it only reasonable to say that I am talking about the country of my origin up to about fifty years ago. Nowadays the levels of tact, courtesy and civility here have deteriorated to those of just about anywhere and everywhere else, and for that I blame the growth of two things - television and the proletariat.

However, since it can be said that there are occasionally good reasons for directness, I will happily tell you one thing, I wasn't born in either Eire or the United States, hence my not worshipping at the Kennedy altar.

Thank you for your enquiry. Please do not be dissuaded by my lack of a direct answer.

 

[Marlin47]

Yes my question was direct and to the point and since you avoided it, I will make certain assumptions about you.

By all means, please do ; in the same way as I, too, will make assumptions about you as to why you desire to know my country of origin.

I will say this much, though, I am an ex cavalry officer who, upon retiring from the army qualified as a lawyer. I am also a published author of the definitive work on a non fiction subject. These facts are more relevant , I would, have thought, than the country of my birth.

 

[Marlin47]

Yes my question was direct and to the point and since you avoided it, I will make certain assumptions about you.

P.S.

I have already stated elsewhere that I felt your question to be "direct ".

You have also stated that it was " to the point ". It may well be so, but " the point " of it being asked is known only to you, and not myself. As long as this remains the status quo, I will, of necessity, avoid answering it.

I will , however, speculate this much. In every country there will always be many who, quite naturally, leap to their countries defence whenever it may be criticised. This is very laudable and applies as much to oblique comments made, for example, about one of the defenders countrymen or automobiles, or national sports etc, as much as it may do to more important matters such as politics, foreign policy, national religion and so on.

Certain countries, however, being less established or confident or secure in itself
in terms of its maturity and sophistication, seem to spawn much greater numbers of these " defenders ". Moreover, the " defenders " of those countries
tend to be more chauvinistic or even aggressively patriotic ( I use this latter word in its most widest of applications ). An example of this would be Senator
Joseph McCarthy and his " Reds under the bed " scare.

They appear to sense a threat against their country in even the most innocent and valid of comments, and their response can be quite out of proportion to the issue involved. A typical knee jerk reaction might be, for example, to seek to establish the origin, motivation or rationale behind the original action or question rather than to respond to it in a normal manner and thereby draw out more information. As a reply or response to a negative comment or criticism it would certainly be direct and maybe even " to the point ", but it is unlikely to achieve much more, if anything at all, than to cause the shutters to come crashing down.

 

[Marlin47]

Not a rant, methinks, unless you are unable to differentiate between a lucid, cogent and coherent ( albeit lengthy, but then, remember, I am a lawyer ! ) dissertation , and an aggressive, incoherent and meaningless diatribe. If this is so, and you cannot differentiate, then it may well appear to be a " rant " to you.

Paranoid ? I hardly think so, but, again, who knows how you choose to define things !
I most certainly don't see any competence in your ability to make correct determinations, thus there must clearly be some doubt as to your enabling skills.

Make I take it, though , that you are either American, Catholic, or both ? I hope so since that would account for your mettle. I do hope, though, that irrespective of your nationality or faith, you are not just another deluded Kennedy acolyte, since that would be both wretched and tiresome.

 

[Marlin47]

Actually I no longer practise law, having opted for early retirement in order to fulfill a commission to write a book ( later increased to a further four books ) . In addition to that, in order to make a contribution to the community I founded a consumer pressure group late last year. This will achieve charity status early next year. Mind you, no lawyer ever retires
completely, since there are always either ongoing cases or clients who wish to instruct only myself. At an hourly rate of about €1500 plus expenses I have no problem with that.
Insofar as lack of time is concerned, any professional person would subscribe to the ethos of
Time Management, as well as being able to prioritise in a highly developed manner.

I therefore never suffer from a lack of time, anymore than I do having too much time.
Buggering about on Internet forums is something I do by way of a light distraction.

 

[Marlin47]

By the bye. I am not suggesting anything remotely resembling a conspiracy regarding the
Kennedy family. That they were what they were is totally incontrovertible.
Only the most naive, utterly stupid, dyed in the wool Democrat, totally indoctrinated Catholic, or an American who is any permutation of the above characteristics would seek to pretend otherwise. Sadly, it would seem that even today there is no shortage of Americans of that Ilk. Still, looking on the bright side, better a stupid American than an intelligent one. Rare though they may be, they are the ones to keep a close eye upon.

 

[scott-atkinson]

P.S.

I have already stated elsewhere that I felt your question to be "direct ".

You have also stated that it was " to the point ". It may well be so, but " the point " of it being asked is known only to you, and not myself. As long as this remains the status quo, I will, of necessity, avoid answering it.

I will , however, speculate this much. In every country there will always be many who, quite naturally, leap to their countries defence whenever it may be criticised. This is very laudable and applies as much to oblique comments made, for example, about one of the defenders countrymen or automobiles, or national sports etc, as much as it may do to more important matters such as politics, foreign policy, national religion and so on.

Certain countries, however, being less established or confident or secure in itself
in terms of its maturity and sophistication, seem to spawn much greater numbers of these " defenders ". Moreover, the " defenders " of those countries
tend to be more chauvinistic or even aggressively patriotic ( I use this latter word in its most widest of applications ). An example of this would be Senator
Joseph McCarthy and his " Reds under the bed " scare.

They appear to sense a threat against their country in even the most innocent and valid of comments, and their response can be quite out of proportion to the issue involved. A typical knee jerk reaction might be, for example, to seek to establish the origin, motivation or rationale behind the original action or question rather than to respond to it in a normal manner and thereby draw out more information. As a reply or response to a negative comment or criticism it would certainly be direct and maybe even " to the point ", but it is unlikely to achieve much more, if anything at all, than to cause the shutters to come crashing down.

Man.... you are in dire need of a beer and a chill pill

With reference to the Kennedy's I am British, and have no opinion on the subject at all, it is American history...

Now if you want to start a thread about Thatcher then I have lots of opinions on the Iron Lady...

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Man.... you are in dire need of a beer and a chill pill

With reference to the Kennedy's I am British, and have no opinion on the subject at all, it is American history...

Now if you want to start a thread about Thatcher then I have lots of opinions on the Iron Lady...

Joe Kennedy WWII and the UK is quite interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_P._Kennedy,_Sr.#Ambassador_to_Britain

 

[Marlin47]

Man.... you are in dire need of a beer and a chill pill

With reference to the Kennedy's I am British, and have no opinion on the subject at all, it is American history...

Now if you want to start a thread about Thatcher then I have lots of opinions on the Iron Lady...

Only the Americans themselves have a greater entitlement than the British to express an opinion on the Kennedys. And, as we all know, the twin cults of Kennedy worship and All Hail to the President ( any and all of 'em, irrespective of their political leanings ) are equally established within the US.

That you choose not to express an opinion is, of course, your prerogative, but even you cannot deny the old aphorism of " the USA sneezes and Great Britain catches cold ! "
Have you heard that ? Do you understand it ?

Putting to one side the fact that the US Establishment are vehemently anti - Empire ( you can take that to mean anti BRITISH empire ), coupled with the corruptness of the the various American governments , one can easily ascertain
quite why those of us who DO have an opinion take the view that we do.

 

[Marlin47]

Joe Kennedy WWII and the UK is quite interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_P._Kennedy,_Sr.#Ambassador_to_Britain

Given that Wikipedia is not necessarily the best source of independent and unbiased information, this entry tells it like it is. As we all know, Joseph Kennedy was a corrupt and crooked businessman who made his millions as a result of illegal rum running during the Prohibition. Being an Irish -American from Massachusetts he could hardly be anything other than anti-English and he most assuredly was that, as was evidenced by his constant decrying of Great
Britain at all times, never more so than when he was the US Aambassador to the United Kingdom.

He financially bribed union bosses, city Councillors etc etc etc to ensure that his son John was elected to Congress, and, even so, JFK barely scraped in ( his opponent must have been a Protestant in a mainly Catholic borough. ! ).

Given the nature of the old man, Joe, his sons could never have been anything more than the nasty pieces of work that they were.

 

[Marlin47]

Speaking of nasty pieces of work. Nobody is disputing your position on the Kennedy clan. Now what? Should we move on to Henry Ford?

Unlike the Kennedys, who were entirely self interested and both used and abused very many people, Henry Ford made a colossal contribution to mankind in making available cheap, reliable family transport. He also invented Mass
Production and construction using a conveyor belt system. Moreover, he employed hundreds of thousands of people globally.

I rather thought that we might move on to Charles Lindbergh. What say you ?

 

[scott-atkinson]

That you choose not to express an opinion is, of course, your prerogative, but even you cannot deny the old aphorism of " the USA sneezes and Great Britain catches cold ! "
Have you heard that ? Do you understand it ?

Putting to one side the fact that the US Establishment are vehemently anti - Empire ( you can take that to mean anti BRITISH empire ), coupled with the corruptness of the the various American governments , one can easily ascertain
quite why those of us who DO have an opinion take the view that we do.

Yes of course I have heard of that saying and yes we are the poltical puppet of America, but in my opinion I would rather be in bed with America than with the lilly livered Europeans and their stupid Human Rights bill that allows Criminals more rights than their Victims...

I for one like that fact that we are heavily aligned, and we have a good relationship, you say Jump and we Say HOW HIGH...

As for the Empire, and your Independance..... we let you have your country, any people who drop tonnes of Tea into the Sea are a bunch of Heavens and one is simply not amused...

 

[scott-atkinson]

Unlike the Kennedys, who were entirely self interested and both used and abused very many people, Henry Ford made a colossal contribution to mankind in making available cheap, reliable family transport. He also invented Mass
Production and construction using a conveyor belt system. Moreover, he employed hundreds of thousands of people globally.

I rather thought that we might move on to Charles Lindbergh. What say you ?

You've obviously never owned a FORD....

Oh, sorry forgot, your a Bentley and Aston Martin type of man....

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

What is your country of origin?

Essex - via Bristol ? would be my guess.

 

[Marlin47]

Yes of course I have heard of that saying and yes we are the poltical puppet of America, but in my opinion I would rather be in bed with America than with the lilly livered Europeans and their stupid Human Rights bill that allows Criminals more rights than their Victims...

I for one like that fact that we are heavily aligned, and we have a good relationship, you say Jump and we Say HOW HIGH...

As for the Empire, and your Independance..... we let you have your country, any people who drop tonnes of Tea into the Sea are a bunch of Heavens and one is simply not amused...

If forced to choose between the frying pan and the fire, then one does not have much of a choice. The original purpose of my thread was to help Americans to wise up and recognise just how corrupt many of their politicians are.

 

[Marlin47]

Americans are so fortunate to have you school us on our political disarray.

Amigo, any country where half a century later a huge amount of the population
still believe that the Kennedys are people to be lauded, admired and held up as an example to others : any country largely populated by people of such astonishing naïveté, quite frankly, they need ALL the help that they can get !

 

[Marlin47]

Your request is entirely valid and, as such, is to be respected. However, sad to relate, it is difficult, if not impossible , to cite any tangible, concrete evidence to support my contention.
Thet fact, though, does not invalidate my statement.

I would, however, fully expect that any American would be able to recognise as being valid my statement that the Kennedys are still lionised, if only by that element of the US population that are Catholic.....which is, of course, a huge percentage given the vast numbers of both Irish and Mexican immigrants into the USA.

It is the habit of the Catholic church to seize upon notable Catholics to spin an aura of grace and semi Holiness about them. Every month yet another eminent long dead ( or not so long dead ) Catholic is beatified or even sanctified on the most doubtful and spuriousness of grounds. Never more so than now, when everyday there is yet another revelation as to the abuse of children by Catholic priest in many countries of the World. Even as recently as last week senior Catholic cardinals in the USA were discovered to be transferring vast amounts of money from many Catholic diocese funds into tangled and complicated trust funds beyond the reach of claimants who will / have won Court cases against the many Catholic priests who have systematically and repeatedly raped children of both sexes for many, many years

 

[Darrell]

However, sad to relate, it is difficult, if not impossible , to cite any tangible, concrete evidence to support my contention.
Thet fact, though, does not invalidate my statement.

Haha this is great... It may as well read:

I have made a statement that you need to believe is correct.
I have absolutely no factual backing to this statement.
Regardless of opinion or proof, you have to believe it anyway.

You must be a big fan of the bible then

 

[Marlin47]

Haha this is great... It may as well read:

I have made a statement that you need to believe is correct.
I have absolutely no factual backing to this statement.
Regardless of opinion or proof, you have to believe it anyway.

You must be a big fan of the bible then

You are quite right to take the view you have on the basis of my reply.
However, I just cannot be bothered to state my credentials, my academic achievements, the names of those who share my opinions, or the enormous amount of material I have researched in order to inform my view.

You will either believe what I say or dismiss it totally. Do I give a rats arse either way ? What do you think ?