The Qur'an

[aziz rasul]

Assalaamu Aleykum

Insha-allaah I will post random verses of the Qur'an as and when time permits.

And whoever turns away from My remembrance - indeed, he will have a depressed life, and We will gather him on the Day of Resurrection blind."

He will say, "My Lord, why have you raised me blind while I was [once] seeing?"

[Allaah] will say, "Thus did Our signs come to you, and you forgot them; and thus will you this Day be forgotten."

And thus do We recompense he who transgressed and did not believe in the signs of his Lord. And the punishment of the Hereafter is more severe and more enduring.

Then, has it not become clear to them how many generations We destroyed before them as they walk among their dwellings? Indeed in that are signs for those of intelligence.

And if not for a word that preceded from your Lord, punishment would have been an obligation [due immediately], and [if not for] a specified term [decreed].

So be patient over what they say and exalt [ Allah ] with praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before its setting; and during periods of the night [exalt Him] and at the ends of the day, that you may be satisfied.

And do not extend your eyes toward that by which We have given enjoyment to [some] categories of them, [its being but] the splendor of worldly life by which We test them. And the provision of your Lord is better and more enduring.

And enjoin prayer upon your family [and people] and be steadfast therein. We ask you not for provision; We provide for you, and the [best] outcome is for [those of] righteousness.

20:124-132

 

[isladogs]

Aziz

I'm not in any way questioning your faith but I don't believe this forum is an appropriate place to post selections from the Qur'an, the Bible or any other work of religion

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Actually, Colin, it's been done. Check for the "Are you an atheist" thread.

I see you are still with us Aziz. You know, of course, that many of us do not share your religion and are not interested in it as anything other than an intellectual exercise in logically dissecting what you post.

I will simply point out to you that for those who are already religiously oriented, your posts are probably too late to change their minds enough to change to Islam. For those of us who are atheistically oriented, the posts are merely words on a screen with a moderate annoyance factor. And this is NOT going to be a place to recruit new Muslims from the religiously ambiguous because you KNOW we will counter your arguments. Finally, you've been around enough that you can include links and save yourself some time and typing.

Having said that, I hope you are doing well, Aziz. As you know, while I do not agree with your religion, I have no animosity to you as a person. Shalom Alechem.

 

[NauticalGent]

Well said, Doc.

 

[isladogs]

I had skim read bits of the lengthy thread 'Are you an atheist' before today including some of the posts by Aziz.

I've never felt tempted to contribute although I have very strong views about religion.
However, in my opinion, that thread was different because it was intended to be a debate.

Just quoting a section of any religious text with no clear reason for doing so is I believe an inappropriate use of this forum.
It doesn't matter which religious text is being quoted.

I would feel exactly the same way if someone had posted the election manifesto of one of the UK political parties

I agree totally with the Doc's response in terms of the likely effect on those reading the original post.

As an aside, as some of you may know, Allen Browne is a deeply religious man.
If you don't know who he is - I would call him the Access guru but I doubt very much he'd like that!
You won't find any mention of his beliefs on his Access website, although as its his site, he would be totally entitled to do so.
When he decided to focus on theological discussions, he created a wholly separate website for the purpose.

 

[Frothingslosh]

As one of the group Doc left out - agnostics - let me point out that just throwing random verse at us does nothing but guarantee you get ignored.

You want to convince one of the fence-sitters, you do it by convincing us that you are right. I guarantee you that random verse from your holy book will NOT do that, simply because EVERYONE seems to think that just beating us around the head with enough verse guarantees we lose our free will and become obedient little drones, and it gets fucking annoying.

The Nine I'd Really Rathers

1. I'd Really Rather You Didn’t Act Like A Sanctimonious Holier-Than-Thou Ass When Describing My Noodly Goodness. If Some People Don't Believe In Me, That's Okay. Really, I'm Not That Vain. Besides, This Isn't About Them So Don't Change The Subject.
2. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Use My Existence As A Means To Oppress, Subjugate, Punish, Eviscerate, And/Or, You Know, Be Mean To Others. I Don't Require Sacrifices, And Purity Is For Drinking Water, Not People.
3. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Judge People For The Way They Look, Or How They Dress, Or The Way They Talk, Or, Well, Just Play Nice, Okay? Oh, And Get This In Your Thick Heads: Woman=Person, Man=Person. Samey-Samey. One is Not Better Than The Other, Unless We're Talking About Fashion And I'm Sorry, But I Gave That To Women And Some Guys Who Know The Difference Between Teal And Fuchsia.
4. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Indulge In Conduct That Offends Yourself, Or Your Willing, Consenting Partner Of Legal Age AND Mental Maturity. As For Anyone Who Might Object, I Think The Expression Is Go F*** Yourself, Unless They Find That Offensive In Which Case They Can Turn Off The TV For Once And Go For A Walk For A Change.
5. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Challenge The Bigoted, Misogynist, Hateful Ideas Of Others On An Empty Stomach. Eat, Then Go After The B*******.
6. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Build Multimillion-Dollar Churches/Temples/Mosques/Shrines To My Noodly Goodness When The Money Could Be Better Spent (Take Your Pick):
A. Ending Poverty
B. Curing Diseases
C. Living In Peace, Loving With Passion, And Lowering The Cost Of Cable.
I Might Be A Complex-Carbohydrate Omniscient Being, But I Enjoy The Simple Things In Life. I Ought To Know. I AM The Creator.
7. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Go Around Telling People I Talk To You. You're Not That Interesting. Get Over Yourself. And I Told You To Love Your Fellow Man, Can't You Take A Hint?
8. I'd Really Rather You Didn't Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You If You Are Into, Um, Stuff That Uses Alot Of Leather/Lubrication/Las Vegas. If The Other Person Is Into It However (Pursuant To #4), Then Have At It, Take Pictures, And For The Love Of Mike, Wear A CONDOM! Honestly, It's A Piece Of Rubber, If I Didn't Want It To Feel Good When You Did IT I Would Have Added Spikes, Or Something.
RAmen.

Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, pp99-101

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Frothy! I didn't remember that you were a Pastafarian!

 

[isladogs]

He's really not sure ....

As a confirmed atheist myself, I'd just like to say in response to this quote

And whoever turns away from My remembrance - indeed, he will have a depressed life

No - I live a very happy life thanks

 

[ColinEssex]

Frothy, every religious person, especially Americans think they are right and for some unknown reason think everyone else is a lesser person.

Back in 1999 / 2000 we had an unwritten rule. No religion, politics, sex or foul language. Now it seems that rule has all mostly gone. That's why it was better here in those days.

Col

 

[aziz rasul]

Ridders, the full verse was

And whoever turns away from My remembrance - indeed, he will have a depressed life, and We will gather him on the Day of Resurrection blind."

You missed the last bit.

 

[isladogs]

Yes I know - the first part was all I wanted.
You selected from the Qur'an - I selected from your selection

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Aziz, the quote you provided is yet another example of the strong-arm tactics used by religion. Threats of horrible results if you stray from the path, glowing promises for compliance, and generally onerous demands of behavior - all of these are typical of religions based on a petulant, arrogant, authoritarian, narcissistic, jealous, and vengeful supreme being (possibly with the FSM excepted).

We who look at these exhortations with open eyes recognize that they are the exact same promises made by practitioners of investment fraud. They sweet-talk you into investing, then when you want to take your money they warn you of severe consequences for withdrawal before maturity. You have to place your trust in the defrauders, but when that maturity comes, the promised reward isn't there. You have squandered your investment. And in the case of religion, that investment was the TIME it took to follow all of the byzantine rules and exotic requirements; time you could have spent learning or enjoying some type of art. Time you could have spent with friends and family. Time to do something constructive.

You have to understand that to atheists, the payoff for the religious investment occurs at a time when it cannot be confirmed by the living. THERE IS NO FEEDBACK (from a successful investor). There is only the advertising literature, which is what you are quoting to us. That is no more useful than installing screen doors on submarines.

I absolutely and positively acknowledge your right to believe as you do AND to follow your religion in your private life. I reserve the right to comment on whatever you say in public and in particular on this forum.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Back in 1999 / 2000 we had an unwritten rule. No religion, politics, sex or foul language....Col

No religion, politics, sex or foul language but... winding people up endlessly that's okay lol. It's funny what people think is proper and what's not.

I say create a room where anything goes.

 

[Frothingslosh]

No religion, politics, sex or foul language but... winding people up endlessly that's okay lol. It's funny what people think is proper and what's not.

I say create a room where anything goes.

Personally, I'm admiring the irony in him talking about how much better AWF was before he joined.

As for an 'anything goes' sub-forum: I've seen a few places do it; it never works out well.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Its a little tongue and cheek..

Personally, I'm admiring the irony in him talking about how much better AWF was before he joined.

I believe at some point he lost posts do to the forum being hack and maybe discipline. So I am not sure if the dates are correct. There has be a few incarnation of Mr. Colin.

I have deleted tons of my own posts over the years. And will probably delete more as time goes on.

 

[aziz rasul]

Riders it's the last part of the verse that will become a reality when that time comes. What then?

 

[Minty]

Yawn...

I suspect we'll have a cure for blindness(sic) by then.

 

[isladogs]

Yawn...

I suspect we'll have a cure for blindness by then.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Aziz - I made my views clear about this thread from the start.

If anyone was ever going to have any chance of changing my mind about religion, this would not be the way to go about it.
In fact it further reinforces my opinions against religion

So far not one person has been supportive of your decision to start this thread. I think it was the wrong thing to do

I have absolutely no intention of getting into a discussion with you about any of your selections from the Qur'an

 

[ColinEssex]

Personally, I'm admiring the irony in him talking about how much better AWF was before he joined.

I joined in 1999/2000 ish.

Americans don't understand irony.

Col

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Americans don't understand irony

I used to think that as well, but I've come to the conclusion it's not that they don't understand irony, it's that they don't understand why we think it's funny. There's a subtle difference.



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