Very Strange Wi-Fi Problem - Support Forum needed (1 Viewer)

[Bilbo_Baggins_Esq]

It's been awhile since I posted here but in the past, all the information I've received here has been top-notch quality and swift.
Very professional and very useful site.

However, now I've encountered a very odd problem, not with Access, but rather with regard to Wi-Fi networking.

I've already done quite a bit of diagnostics and troubleshooting - all to no avail.

I'm looking for some type of networking support forum, similar to this forum, where there's a lot of very knowledgeable people willing to assist, similar to what this forum is with regard to Excel.

I've done some looking but can't really find anything that isn't really masquerading as a paid support site or doesn't have any volume of posts.

Anyone here know of a good, old-school, support forum for Windows Wi-Fi networking?

For explanatory purposes, here's a description of the problem which i posted in the Microsoft's Windows Community (with no answers received).

Lenovo T520 Laptop
Dual Boot to Windows 7 Ultimate (not OEM).
Partition 0 is Windows 7 Ultimate x64 (main usage for the laptop)
Partition 1 is Windows 7 Ultimate x86 (hardly ever used - almost never)
Partition 2 is Storage

I told my son (who is the primary user of this laptop) to connect to the internet with a network cable I gave him when we moved into this location (5 years ago).
However, about 1.5 years ago my son told me he couldn't connect to the internet anymore.
When I investigated it turned out he never was using the ethernet cable because the ethernet cable I gave him was defective.
He never told me it wasn't working but instead he was actually connecting via Wi-Fi.
So the points here are 2:
1. For a long time, the W-Fi was working fine at this new location, and
2. About 1.5 years ago it quit.

To manage the issue as simply as possible, I just got him a proper ethernet cable and he was back online - problem solved.
I did not spend much time investigating the issue with the Wi-Fi for reasons which I'll share now.

Since that time my son has bought his own new computer so I get to reclaim my old T520 and repurpose it downstairs in the kitchen.
However, that means I now need to address the Wi-Fi issue I initially encountered 1.5 years ago but which is still present.

The issue is this: The SSIDs from our AT&T router are not visible on the list of available Wi-Fi networks. Neither the main SSID or the 'Guest" SSID show up on the list.
All my neighbors SSIDs are present.
While I have not gone door to door taking a poll of my neighbors SSIDs (that would surely be weird), based on the sheer volume of SSIDs showing up, I feel safe in assuming they're all showing up as available on my T520.
When I turn the hotspot from my phone on, that SSID appears and I'm able to connect to it.

Additionally, my other laptop (Lenovo W540), my cell phone (Samsung Note 10+) and my son's cell phone (generic Samsung), and my girlfriend's IPhone are ALL able to see our SSID's (both of them) and are able to connect to them without issue.
So, whatever this is, it's apparently only impacting this one laptop (the T520).

Furthermore, assuming it might be a Windows issue I would've been perfectly fine with flattening all 3 of these partitions (one is just for storage) and doing a clean Windows install. However, in consideration of that idea I booted into the seldom used x86 partition believing I should see the SSIDs there and my path to solution would be clearly identified. However, I was very distressed to see that in-fact, NO, the SSIDs (neither of them) are also not present on the clean x86 partition either!

Diagnostics:
1. Turned off the Wi-Fi LAN option in BIOS. Booted to Windows to confirm and shut back down. Turned Wi-Fi LAN back on in BIOS and booted back to Windows - No Joy - No Change
2. Check for updated drivers - none were found and so no change
3. Booted into a clean x86 partition on the same computer and still not seeing the SSIDs
4. Removed the prior Wi-Fi network from "Wi-Fi Networks" in Windows and tried to manually add it back. No Joy - No Change
5. Spent the whole morning on the phone with AT&T support. We:
6. Factory reset the router (3 times) - No Joy - No Change
7. Looked for any configuration information that might be blocking this laptop's IP address or MAC address. - No Joy - No Change
8. Changed the SSIDs (both). We confirmed the new names were functioning on other devices but No Joy - No Change on the T520.
9. Connected the T520 to the router by ethernet cable and the AT&T engineer confirmed he's able to see it - He was able but still No Joy - No Change on the Wi-Fi side.
10. Purchased an exact OEM replacement internal Wi-Fi card and installed it - No Joy - No Change

So I feel like I'm out of gas here and need some extreme deep help here.
Is there anything in the registry that could be blocking discovery of these SSIDs but if so, how would that've impacted BOTH partitions?
Is there some way, any way, flattening these partitions and doing a fresh Windows install could fix this?

 

[AccessBlaster]

Windows 7 ended its support on Jan 14, 2020. Could it be possible Windows is making things difficult for Windows 7 users? Planned obsolescence comes to mind.

 

[Bilbo_Baggins_Esq]

I'm aware of Windows 7's support (or lack thereof).
This laptop won't support Window 10 or 11 so I'm pretty much stuck at this level and it still works well for other uses.

That would be a pretty strange way of "making things difficult for Windows 7 users."
Plus, I'd expect to see a lot of others with the same or similar issue out on the internet.
File under unfounded conspiracy conjecture.

Besides, I can still connect to other SSIDs and even changing the names of my SSIDs doesn't fix the issue.

I appreciate your effort but unless I got really lucky, I wasn't expecting a bunch of Access Masters to directly help with an advanced Wi-Fi networking issue. I'm really, mostly, in search of a high-quality forum (as is this forum with regard to Access) focused on networking support.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Additionally, my other laptop (Lenovo W540), my cell phone (Samsung Note 10+) and my son's cell phone (generic Samsung), and my girlfriend's IPhone are ALL able to see our SSID's (both of them) and are able to connect to them without issue.

Basically, this is one system being unable to see the SSIDs from one router, but all systems seeing many other SSIDs and many other systems seeing the SSID of that one router. This is NOT a hardware problem of any kind anywhere, since too many alternate hardware and network paths are still working. It is a routing problem. Since it is an AT&T router, I am assuming your ISP is also AT&T, but if not, then at least your current ISP should know enough to be able to help.

In preparation for this, you will need some information at-hand. Go to the Windows Command Line console and type:

IPCONFIG/ALL

You will see something that might include this:

Windows IP Configuration

   Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : XXXXXXXXXX                       <<removed for my own security
   Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
   Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
   IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : attlocal.net

Ethernet adapter Ethernet:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected               <<might see MANY of these
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcom NetLink (TM) Gigabit Ethernet
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 78-2B-CB-90-E8-E5               <<an unused MAC address so I don't care if you see it
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

{several more disconnected media removed for brevity}

Wireless LAN adapter Wi-Fi:

   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : attlocal.net
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcom 802.11n Network Adapter
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : XX-XX-XX-XX-XX-XX            <<edited to hide my real MAC address
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : XXXX:XXXX:XXXX:XXXX::XXXX (Preferred)    <<edited to hide my real IPv6 address
   Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, July 13, 2023 4:30:24 AM
   Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, August 15, 2023 4:30:21 PM

This will let you see your own system's MAC address (Media Access Control), which IPCONFIG calls your PHYSICAL ADDRESS. IF this is a router issue, you will need that for trouble-shooting and tracing. The MAC address is used in the point-to-point (networking layer 1 - hardware) protocols. I would also get the make and model number of the router.

Call your ISP support number to ask if that particular router can do selective blocking of a given MAC address. The ISP might call it "router-level security" which is the most common name for this effect. Or there might be a proprietary name for the effect. IF this is an AT&T situation, their on-line help system will get in the way for a while but if you get to a human voice - or a human chat agent - you might get decent results.

I would also check your anti-virus package (which, for some packages, can affect driver-level permissions) to see if it has a blocking rule. Such rules will probably use the words ALLOW or DENY plus the address in question. There might be more than that, but that would definitely be there if you have a block on your system.

This is definitely a router-level issue which can be affected by the firmware version in the router, the driver version on your machine, and the specific abilities of your Internet Security package. They are all working together at the bottom layer of the 7-layer ISO model. (Or in your case, NOT working together...)

From your other laptop (W540) you should be able to see the router's "home" page - usually address 192.168.1.254, but may have a slash and some string beginning like "/cgi-bin/" + something or another. If your ISP support suggests that a router-level block is possible, you might - with help from the ISP - be able to remove it through that internal web page. To do so, you will need to know the admin password for your router, which is usually on a sticker underneath the router's chassis, right next to the ordinary router password, assuming you have not changed them. Your ISP could advise you how to clear this if it includes router-level MAC blocking. This, however, would have to be advice given from the ISP. There are too many routers and too many command structures for me to know them all, and if it IS an AT&T router, the tech support folks will know what to look for.

 

[CJ_London]

Not sure there is such a forum if you have already searched but sounds to me like you do not have a Wi-Fi signal from your router in that location (I have a ‘cold spot’ in one corner of our lounge for example). You didn’t say where these other devices were located.

Try a different location and also use you smart phone or similar to see if it receives a signal where you need it

failing that, get a booster or more powerful Wi-Fi router

 

[Bilbo_Baggins_Esq]

Basically, this is one system being unable to see the SSIDs from one router, but all systems seeing many other SSIDs and many other systems seeing the SSID of that one router. This is NOT a hardware problem of any kind anywhere, since too many alternate hardware and network paths are still working. It is a routing problem. Since it is an AT&T router, I am assuming your ISP is also AT&T, but if not, then at least your current ISP should know enough to be able to help.

In preparation for this, you will need some information at-hand. Go to the Windows Command Line console and type:

IPCONFIG/ALL

You will see something that might include this:

Windows IP Configuration

   Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : XXXXXXXXXX                       <<removed for my own security
   Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
   Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
   IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
   DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : attlocal.net

Ethernet adapter Ethernet:

   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected               <<might see MANY of these
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcom NetLink (TM) Gigabit Ethernet
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 78-2B-CB-90-E8-E5               <<an unused MAC address so I don't care if you see it
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

{several more disconnected media removed for brevity}

Wireless LAN adapter Wi-Fi:

   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . : attlocal.net
   Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcom 802.11n Network Adapter
   Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : XX-XX-XX-XX-XX-XX            <<edited to hide my real MAC address
   DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
   Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
   IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : XXXX:XXXX:XXXX:XXXX::XXXX (Preferred)    <<edited to hide my real IPv6 address
   Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Thursday, July 13, 2023 4:30:24 AM
   Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Tuesday, August 15, 2023 4:30:21 PM

This will let you see your own system's MAC address (Media Access Control), which IPCONFIG calls your PHYSICAL ADDRESS. IF this is a router issue, you will need that for trouble-shooting and tracing. The MAC address is used in the point-to-point (networking layer 1 - hardware) protocols. I would also get the make and model number of the router.

Call your ISP support number to ask if that particular router can do selective blocking of a given MAC address. The ISP might call it "router-level security" which is the most common name for this effect. Or there might be a proprietary name for the effect. IF this is an AT&T situation, their on-line help system will get in the way for a while but if you get to a human voice - or a human chat agent - you might get decent results.

I would also check your anti-virus package (which, for some packages, can affect driver-level permissions) to see if it has a blocking rule. Such rules will probably use the words ALLOW or DENY plus the address in question. There might be more than that, but that would definitely be there if you have a block on your system.

This is definitely a router-level issue which can be affected by the firmware version in the router, the driver version on your machine, and the specific abilities of your Internet Security package. They are all working together at the bottom layer of the 7-layer ISO model. (Or in your case, NOT working together...)

From your other laptop (W540) you should be able to see the router's "home" page - usually address 192.168.1.254, but may have a slash and some string beginning like "/cgi-bin/" + something or another. If your ISP support suggests that a router-level block is possible, you might - with help from the ISP - be able to remove it through that internal web page. To do so, you will need to know the admin password for your router, which is usually on a sticker underneath the router's chassis, right next to the ordinary router password, assuming you have not changed them. Your ISP could advise you how to clear this if it includes router-level MAC blocking. This, however, would have to be advice given from the ISP. There are too many routers and too many command structures for me to know them all, and if it IS an AT&T router, the tech support folks will know what to look for.

Thanks for all the effort and details but sadly, I've already been through all of this.
Spent an entire morning the phone with AT&T.

Yes, this router can provide MAC address blocking.
And yes, I'm able to see the router's config page from the W540.
However, during testing we confirmed when MAC blocking is on for a specific device, that does not stop the device from seeing the SSID. it only stops the device from connecting.
also, there was no existing MAC address blocking found, either on the router or stored by AT&T.

As a side note, some time ago, the router, which was in use at the time the problem first appeared, died.
They sent another router which automatically configured itself (even overriding its own, new, SSID with the original SSID).
The new router works fine with everything except the suspect T520.

I agree this doesn't seem like hardware except that none of the software (to which i have access) seems to be positively impacting the problem.

I found an old thread on a Windows 7 forum where a person claimed to have had the same problem and fixed it by manually changing the broadcast channel on the router.
I've been playing with that but so far - no joy.
And, as is frequently the case with "discovered" threads, there is only minimal information provided and routers are pretty complicated (at least this one is) with regard to dual band (2.4 GHz and 5 GHz) and multiple channels for each.

So damned aggravating.

 

[Jason Lee Hayes]

Purchase a generic PnP USB Wi-Fi dongle; ensure generic "Cost about £3.49" on Fleabay... It does not require a driver as Windows 7 WILL support it of the bat. Plug it in, Driver will auto install and then scan for wireless network. It should identify your specific SSID. If it does not then you know for sure its a gateway/router issue. Note: Move the Laptop a couple of metres away from the router and this is presuming the SSID on the back of the router label has not been changed within the programming of the router. If your not confident it hasn't been changed or the WIFI password changed or set to hidden or set specifically for 8.11B,D,E etc then consider a factory reset of the router gateway. Are you in UK; i can post you one FOC

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The other side of that problem is that MAC address blocking is a two-way street. Your network device driver on the laptop can implement blocking with help from an anti-virus package. Do THEY have a support number? And if so, have you called them to find out whether they are implementing MAC address filtering?

 

[AccessBlaster]

Purchase a generic PnP USB Wi-Fi dongle; ensure generic "Cost about £3.49" on Fleabay... It does not require a driver as Windows 7 WILL support it of the bat. Plug it in, Driver will auto install and then scan for wireless network. It should identify your specific SSID. If it does not then you know for sure its a gateway/router issue. Note: Move the Laptop a couple of metres away from the router and this is presuming the SSID on the back of the router label has not been changed within the programming of the router. If your not confident it hasn't been changed or the WIFI password changed or set to hidden or set specifically for 8.11B,D,E etc then consider a factory reset of the router gateway. Are you in UK; i can post you one FOC

If I boot my laptop into Linux using a USB it does not see my Wi-Fi unless I use a dongle. Pull out the dongle and the USB drive and it boots straight into Windows and sees the wi-fi, just like magic.

 

[Jason Lee Hayes]

If I boot my laptop into Linux using a USB it does not see my Wi-Fi unless I use a dongle. Pull out the dongle and the USB drive and it boots straight into Windows and sees the wi-fi, just like magic.

I'm not sure if you've posted a statement or found a solution:-

Firstly: Unless there is dedicated apps that need Windows 7 then you should consider replacing the OS. You've stated that your Laptop won't support windows 10/11 but this is not true... this can be forced to if necessary. Windows 7 is venerable and should not be used as there is no security updates/patches from Microsoft.

If you intend to keep the laptop; force Windows 10 as an OS primary; likely it will detect the WIFI especially if 32bit installed as 32bit will recognize 16bit drivers, 64bit won't. You can also force 16bit drivers to work in 64bit using testmode and Driver Sign Override Feature...

Also consider Oracle VertualBox or VMWare to drive past the architecture limitation

 

[Bilbo_Baggins_Esq]

OK, well I have some updates here but first, sorry for the lapse.
Though I’ve been chasing it for awhile, at the end of the day it’s a somewhat lower priority objective and life being what it is, has no trouble tasking me with higher priority items.

I spent another morning on the phone with AT&T trying to feel comfortable about making sure when we reset it, it wasn’t downloading any settings from AT&T to “streamline” the process (such as previous SSIDs, Passwords, etc).
Still no joy.

So this time I really leaned hard on them to send me a replacement router.
After some hemming and hawing, he finally agreed to send it.

And, upon receipt I noticed this wasn’t just a “replacement” (same model) this was actually a new one, completely different model.
I installed it, and low and behold, IT WORKED!!!!



Amongst the screwiest damned things I’ve ever seen in computers.
Every bit of diagnostics seemed to exclude every other bit of diagnostics to the point where I wasn’t sure this hasn’t been some kind of twisted waking nightmare.

Anyway, I’ve waited now, several days, and it is continuing to work and can see all the SSIDs (except the 5G because this card doesn’t support 5G).

Anyway, THANKS FOR ALL THE SUGGESTIONS.
I wish they had worked out but at least it’s finally working now.

 

[Bilbo_Baggins_Esq]

You've stated that your Laptop won't support windows 10/11 but this is not true... this can be forced to if necessary.

I've seen some older laptops with versions of Windows I know for a fact should be supported on that hardware.
So I assumed there is some method to force it.

Can you tell me please, how is forcing Windows 10 accomplished?

Can it also be achieved with Windows 11?

My newer laptop (W540 - not really new but at least newer than the older T520) just barely misses the mark on CPU qualification.
If I could force Windows 11 on it, that would free up my Windows 10 license for use on the T520.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

And, upon receipt I noticed this wasn’t just a “replacement” (same model) this was actually a new one, completely different model.
I installed it, and low and behold, IT WORKED!!!!

That's one thing I dislike about AT&T - that they often give you a refurbished model and you never know just how well they have been cleaned out before being sent into the field again. I've had to replace our modem twice (in maybe 10-15 years) and never saw a new one. But I guess I've been lucky because I've never had a problem of that type with the modems I have received.

Anyway, thanks for the update because it clarifies that despite AT&T's protestations to the contrary, it was the modem.