Where is the final battle?

[Galaxiom]

Yes I tolerate the religious too until they start trying to dictate public policy.

I also take every opportunity to undermine thier influence by pointing out the unsavoury side of their beliefs. It makes no difference to the devout but I do hope it has some effect on young people.

However it is very difficult to get anything published in the traditional media as editors are extremely sensitive to the power and influence of the church and the potential loss of readership should they include something that offends the faithful.

They appear happy to publish lies and misunderstandings about atheist beliefs that are perpetrated by the believers but don't support the same opportunity for rebuttal.

Fortunately the Internet is here now and those who question the doctrine can find the answers to their questions by both side of the discussion and make up their own mind. I am very hopeful of change in the long term but I know I won't live to see a truly secular society.

However I do worry that The Minions of Abraham will create their cherished Armageddon.

 

[Adam Caramon]

I also take every opportunity to undermine thier influence by pointing out the unsavoury side of their beliefs. It makes no difference to the devout but I do hope it has some effect on young people.

Same here. I've been in many passionate debates about religion. In my general experience most people that are religious are so because they were raised that way. Very few are truly dedicated to it.

Its also interesting you mention hoping to have an effect on young people; I was talking with a group of late teens early twenties a few months back. When religion got brought up (not by me), and some said they were Christians, I asked them if they believed in the bible literally. The response I got was that the bible was a collection of fables that were trying to pass on good social behavior. I thought it was an interesting view point.

However it is very difficult to get anything published in the traditional media as editors are extremely sensitive to the power and influence of the church and the potential loss of readership should they include something that offends the faithful.

Yeah, on another thread dan-cat had a great point about advertising a negative versus advertising a positive. Atheism is basically saying "Don't believe in god" where as whatever religion is saying "Believe in god/magic/whatever". Advertising the negative is viewed as more offensive than advertising a positive.

I am very hopeful of change in the long term but I know I won't live to see a truly secular society.

I live in America, I think I have it worse than you

I'm not sure how much religious diversity/tolerance there is in Aussieland, but I think USA has more than its share of the religious crazies. Luckily where I am at it is not really bad.

 

[ajetrumpet]

I live in America, I think I have it worse than you

or you could live in Nigeria and have it worse than yourself.

 

[Galaxiom]

or you could live in Nigeria and have it worse than yourself.

Yes, some of those African countries have weird mixes of the Bible and voodoo type practices. While many Western Christians would think this odd, it shows just how easily the Bible can be integrated into anything.

There are plently of blood rituals in the Bible to fuel voodoo.

They are also easily encouraged into hacking people to death on God's command in the genocidal tradition of the Hebrews as is so vividly described in the Bible.

 

[Rabbie]

Time to grow up, guys! the world is what we make it not what some imaginary deities make it. We have to take responsibility for our actions and not rely on some work of fiction as a guide for our actions

 

[ajetrumpet]

Time to grow up, guys! the world is what we make it not what some imaginary deities make it. We have to take responsibility for our actions and not rely on some work of fiction as a guide for our actions

now that's intelligence. I consider this thread officially closed.

 

[oumahexi]

Right can't find a link yet after a quick search, it was from QI iirc but I did find this which is interesting.

Interesting. So, had he returned in the 1600s and practiced what he did best, his own people would have burnt him at the stake, or worse

 

[Kryst51]

now that's intelligence. I consider this thread officially closed.

I find it interesting that you pose this question, offer nothing in the discussion then declare it closed... I must admit, what was your purpose? You say that you're curious about this issue, then make no comments on the responses, other than the kind that have no meaning to the actual discussion that is occurring. So, I reiterate, what was your real point? Did you really care about the answer, or did you just want us all to start arguing (though you said you wanted it to the minimum, and I believe that it hasn't been bad). Or did you just want the religion bashing to begin again? I can't imgaine that your question was fully answered, if it was asked in ernest. At the very least, your response seems detached and uninterested. I just don't get it.

 

[oumahexi]

Time to grow up, guys! the world is what we make it not what some imaginary deities make it. We have to take responsibility for our actions and not rely on some work of fiction as a guide for our actions

You're such a spoil sport Rabbie! What how sad would the world be without "imaginary deities"? Shakespeare would have had little to write about our world would not know A Midsummer Nights Dream. Shame on you!

And this business of taking responsibility for our actions? Are you trying to put psychologists out of business?

 

[Rich]

Shakespeare would have had little to write about our world would not know A Midsummer Nights Dream.

His sister often appears in my dream

 

[ajetrumpet]

I find it interesting that you pose this question, offer nothing in the discussion then declare it closed... I must admit, what was your purpose? You say that you're curious about this issue, then make no comments on the responses, other than the kind that have no meaning to the actual discussion that is occurring. So, I reiterate, what was your real point? Did you really care about the answer, or did you just want us all to start arguing (though you said you wanted it to the minimum, and I believe that it hasn't been bad). Or did you just want the religion bashing to begin again? I can't imgaine that your question was fully answered, if it was asked in ernest. At the very least, your response seems detached and uninterested. I just don't get it.

see those little tiny red words in my signature Kryst? I'm not getting paid for blogging this. You make it sound like this is my job.

 

[Kryst51]

see those little tiny red words in my signature Kryst? I'm not getting paid for blogging this. You make it sound like this is my job.

Heh... Of course I see the red letters, and I knew you would say that.... All I'm saying is you posted as if you cared.... Apparently you didn't so it seems now if you were just trying to inflame people. I am not insulted, angry or even annoyed.... just curious as to your original intentions, which given your response was not to get a serious answer to the topic you posed.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Kryst do yourself a favour and ignore Adam's posts, he has gone from being a useful member of the forum to a pain in the neck.

Brian

 

[ajetrumpet]

Heh... Of course I see the red letters, and I knew you would say that.... All I'm saying is you posted as if you cared.... Apparently you didn't so it seems now if you were just trying to inflame people. I am not insulted, angry or even annoyed.... just curious as to your original intentions, which given your response was not to get a serious answer to the topic you posed.

I'M INTERESTed in the topic which is why i posted. it's an interest. why would I care? you can go on forever about religion, as well as politics. yes i care, but i won't make comments that'll spark an endless argument. people love arguing about this sort of stuff until they're tired. i don't have time to start. by the way, i liked the greyskull avatar better. and the thread closing was a joke honey! wow...maybe i should talk to people more in real life than in cyberspace

and of course the older members of the forum think i'm useless. but hey, everyone's got an opinion don't they?

 

[Kryst51]

I'M INTERESTed in the topic which is why i posted. it's an interest. why would I care? you can go on forever about religion, as well as politics. yes i care, but i won't make comments that'll spark an endless argument. people love arguing about this sort of stuff until they're tired. i don't have time to start

Thanks for the explanation I still find it interesting that you know that this sparks endless arguement... you post the topic.... You don't contribute to the thread...

You don't have time to start then why post? By posting your "starting" it...

I guess like Brian suggested I should just let it go....

 

[ajetrumpet]

Thanks for the explanation I still find it interesting that you know that this sparks endless arguement... you post the topic.... You don't contribute to the thread...

You don't have time to start then why post? By posting your "starting" it...

I guess like Brian suggested I should just let it go....

i would do everything brian says. He's my idol and I personally build my career around his advice.

But, it will be interesting to see what this thread comes up with.

hmmm...well said?

 

[Rabbie]

You're such a spoil sport Rabbie! What how sad would the world be without "imaginary deities"? Shakespeare would have had little to write about our world would not know A Midsummer Nights Dream. Shame on you!

And this business of taking responsibility for our actions? Are you trying to put psychologists out of business?

I think you're being a little harsh on me I have no problem with writers using their imagination to create a good story. But we do know that Shakespeare knew his gods and fairies in MND were imaginary and should not be used to justifya moral code.