Where'd Everybody Go?

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Bodisathva

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Been quiet in here for the past several days. Is there a holiday I don't know about?:confused:

...or everyone just getting a little cranky?:D
 
There's just been so much anti-British sentiment here of late, especially from those we're trying to help, that there doesn't seem much point.
But don't worry, we'll be back soon:cool: :p
 
Rich said:
There's just been so much anti-British sentiment here of late, especially from those we're trying to help, that there doesn't seem much point.
But don't worry, we'll be back soon:cool: :p

and the reason that more Americans than British missing is????:confused:
 
ShaneMan said:
and the reason that more Americans than British missing is????:confused:
They're not missing but now signing on as guests, I guess it's something to do with being ashamed :confused: :cool: :p
 
There you go again, Rich, tossing in the snide anti-American remarks. If there is anything I am ashamed of, it is that I know someone with such a terribly closed mind - you. And even more ashamed that apparently someone with such a terribly closed mind has such a great first name.

As to where I've been, I'm writing some new security code for a report that is part of a new federal (USA) system standard, NIST 800-53. When I get into that mode, I stay away from the forums more than normal.

Not to mention that now, a year after Katrina, our house is finally taking some shape. We now have floors down in all six downstairs rooms, four of those rooms have furniture, and we have schedules for delivery of another two or three different piles of goodies. Plus schedules for the final visits from the plumber, electrician, and building-codes inspector. Move-in date is less than a month away now.

So lately I've been doing some honey-do items. Like hanging blinds in three rooms last weekend. Haggling with the guys who failed to deliver our new TVs ('cause the old ones got verrrrry wet.) Raising hell with the insurers of the guy who recently totaled my wife's car - with her still in it. (She's OK, just muscle aches and pains, nothing broken.)

In other words, life has gone on.
 
Doc Man
Okay so I am a Brit but really glad to hear that your are getting your home back in some sort of shape. Pleased that the wife was only shaken and stirred.

Rich ....well he just enjoys tweaking tails...some people enjoy whisky others brandy...Rich tail tweaking.

But the bugger is good at it

From the sayings thread. "Don't let the buggers grind you down"

oh yeah It was a public holiday monday over here

Len
 
The_Doc_Man said:
There you go again, Rich, tossing in the snide anti-American remarks.
Now why does the word paranoid with no sense of humour spring to mind? :confused:


If there is anything I am ashamed of, it is that I know someone with such a terribly closed mind - you. .

I don't have a closed mind thank you, I'm not an American in federal employment


And even more ashamed that apparently someone with such a terribly closed mind has such a great first name.
You needn't be ashamed on my behalf, freedom of thought is nothing to be ashamed of.
My name refers to my morals and not my financial standing by the way

As to where I've been, I'm writing some new security code for a report that is part of a new federal (USA) system standard, NIST 800-53. When I get into that mode, I stay away from the forums more than normal.

Like I said, a Fed. who can hardly not disagree with state philosophy, can he?

Not to mention that now, a year after Katrina, our house is finally taking some shape. We now have floors down in all six downstairs rooms, four of those rooms have furniture, and we have schedules for delivery of another two or three different piles of goodies. Plus schedules for the final visits from the plumber, electrician, and building-codes inspector. Move-in date is less than a month away now.

I'm glad you're able to return home, we ignorant Brits know that's not the case for countless thousands there. We also know that many insurance companies are hiding behind the small print with the full backing of your judiciary. However we still wish you well, we just wonder why the "most powerful" nation on earth has and is still, making such a hash of it?


OK as an after thought since you constantly accuse us of Knowing nothing about America, meet the Fockers is on the box, would this be a common name for Americans?
 
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Good to hear things are trying to get back to normal for you Doc Man. I know a co-worker from LA who has had to drive back and forth numerous times in the past year to check on things. His family is all in LA, but not too many in New Orleans.

We're just getting rained on by Ernesto at the moment. Pretty lame for a tropical system really. I've seen worse depressions.

Rich, you were alive during the last depression in the early 1900s right? :p
 
Vassago said:
Rich, you were alive during the last depression in the early 1900s right? :p

Yes I get depressed reading some of the replies by Bush supporters and it usually starts about 7pm :p
 
Rich said:
However we still wish you well, we just wonder why the "most powerful" nation on earth has and is still, making such a hash of it?
We saw GWB on telly the other day admitting that government resources and response could be better. Then the BBC showed the areas where you would think it only happened yesterday, nothing done at all, even smashed cars still there - as I said ages ago, if it happened in California it would have been sorted in weeks but because its mostly poor, black people. . . . .who cares. . . . not christian god loving GWB thats for sure.

Here's what The Mirror editorial said about GWB

30 August 2006
DUBYA'S RUIN
GEORGE Bush is guilty of criminal neglect since the destruction of New Orleans.
A year on from Hurricane Katrina and Washington has barely lifted a little finger to help, either economically or politically.
Tens of thousands of residents remain marooned in trailer parks, their homes and once-thriving districts left uninhabitable.

Empty promises of help and money have further tarnished the US President's reputation in the eyes of the world.

And if cowboy Bush is so callous towards US citizens in his Mississippi backyard, God help Iraqis and all the others he vows to bomb into freedom.

Bod said:
Been quiet in here for the past several days. Is there a holiday I don't know about? ...or everyone just getting a little cranky?

er - Americans get cranky, not the British;) Anyway, we're still here, just keeping a watching brief, but it seems that if Rich and I don't post, then the forum becomes somewhat static - presumably because unless prompted, the US posters have difficulty thinking of something to say;) :p

Col
 
ColinEssex said:
...as I said ages ago, if it happened in California it would have been sorted in weeks but because its mostly poor, black people. . . . .who cares. . . . not christian god loving GWB thats for sure.
Not that I have first-hand knowledge of the current status, (I'll defer to Doc's determination on whether or not this is an accurate assumption) but most of the people that have been complaining about the "lack of assistance" were indeed poor but they also had no insurance. So...the government is just supposed to rebuild for those who took no measures to protect their own? Many of those that were relocated, at governement expense, to Houston have decided not to go back. They have much better accomodations now than they had before (A.C., washer/dryer, etc.) but are concerned because they can't afford to stay when their governement assistance ends:eek:. I don't mean to get off on a rant here, but... I'm all for aid and assistance in the face of natural disasters, but there has to be a line drawn between disaster relief and welfare subsidies. It has been a year. Doc's well on his way to getting back to normal (glad to hear it, btw, Doc!) but it takes hard work and effort...those who put forth no effort deserve nothing in return. That's just common sense, not political rhetoric.
(now that I'm done hijacking my own thread again:o )
ColinEssex said:
er - Americans get cranky, not the British;)
no, you get cantankerous :p
ColinEssex said:
...it seems that if Rich and I don't post, then the forum becomes somewhat static - presumably because unless prompted, the US posters have difficulty thinking of something to say;) :p
Could be...I think they take you two a little too serious. I have an Uncle that, given any topic, in any conversation, will take the exact opposite stance from you in order to enjoy the argument... I basically see you two as the cantankerous Uncles of the forum and don't really take you seriously:D
 
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Bodisathva said:
So...the government is just supposed to rebuild for those who took no measures to protect their own?
Odd then that the US government pays billions to rebuild Iraq (via GWB getting backhanders to award contracts) yet the same government won't rebuild New Orleans poor folks places, because they had no insurance and didn't ask to be flooded out.
What did the government pay for the spouses of the dead after 11/9? I read $3 million for a dead spouse, no wonder so many who had rocky marriages were happy when their spouse bought it.
no, you get cantankerous :p
not really, we just point out things you may have misunderstood - like the real facts.
Could be...I think they take you two a little too serious.
Thats an American trait generally I'm afraid. Americans take everything too seriously.

I have an Uncle that, given any topic, in any conversation, will take the exact opposite stance from you in order to enjoy the argument...
Get him on the forum then. . . . . Rich and I never take the opposite view of everything, its just that the USA has such extremes - what appears normal to you, is alien to us. Like having an arsenal of guns. . . . .:confused: or nothing less than a V8 car.

Col
 
Rich said:
Yes I get depressed reading some of the replies by Bush supporters and it usually starts about 7pm :p

Don't confuse me for a Bush supporter. I'd never claim that title. :mad:
 
Odd then that the US government pays billions to rebuild Iraq (via GWB getting backhanders to award contracts) yet the same government won't rebuild New Orleans poor folks places, because they had no insurance and didn't ask to be flooded out.

Colin, I have to tell you that many of us here are asking similar questions. But government money is still available, it is just hard to get.

You must remember that Katrina devastated a densely populated area. The raw number of affected homes is staggering. When a few hundred homes are destroyed, it doesn't take that long to fix things up. For instance, when a creek overflows in Texas or Delaware, a small community of several hundred people is affected. But when the number of destroyed homes is more like a few hundred THOUSAND, it takes longer. You can talk about how long it takes to rebuild, but these are contributing factors that must be taken into account. (And where I can, I'll couch them in computing terms.)

1. There are only so many folks who are willing to come into a devastated area to do the work. You can talk about supply and demand, but this is really a lesson in queueing theory. When service demand is way up (which it is, in our area) and the number of available services is limited (which it is, in our area), processing time goes way up. Hence the delays.

2. The reason you can't bring in more people to do the work is that there is no place for them to say that is close. For instance, one of our contractor's sub-contractors drives in from Prairieville, LA, which is well over 100 miles away. We have folks who came in from Texas and are staying in very crowded conditions. You can't bring in more people because the motels and apartment buildings were just as badly devastated as private homes, so there is no place for them to stay. The tent cities are full. The FEMA trailers can't be used for contractors. They are available only for victims.

We allowed certain of our contractors to sleep in one part of our house for a while, but there are limits to whom you can trust that way. We have reached the point that we don't want anyone there but family. And not many folks allowed as much as we did.

3. The normal way to improve service availability is to increase the price you pay. But insurance companies set the payout rates and not many folks can afford to pay the differential. We didn't pay a differential but got started late. That is why we got the contractor we did. He was finishing some other jobs and we caught him sort of "between" projects.

4. A very big part of the problem for the densely populated areas is not that the houses can't be renovated (well,... actually, it IS the problem), it is WHY they can't get in to do the work. When the flood soaked the ground and stayed for so long, it affected lots of things - including sub-surface infrastructure. Some parts of town have no potable water coming through the water mains because of serious breaches therein. No gas lines. No sewage lines.

The utility companies have the same labor problem as everyone else, so they cannot replace the sub-surface mains and branches any faster than they are already going, and you can't replace such things in the wrong order. (Think bottom-up tree traversal...) An article on our local news suggested that we were losing 85 million gallons per day from the city-wide water system due to leaks that hadn't been plugged or otherwise blocked by closing valves. And of course, the news media will show the protest marches for the folks in the area that has no infrastructure. But you can't speed that up any more than it already is going because of lack of machinery, workers, and raw materials.

5. Supply and demand applies to home renovation products, too. For instance, our insurance adjust said that in a memo she had seen, some USA suppliers of things like sheet rock (dry wall) committed the entire output of their factories to Katrina and their estimates were that it wouldn't be enough. Again, queueing theory...

So yes it is going slow, yes the feds are slow to act, yes there are a lot of very frustrated people. But yes, there is progress in many areas.

The biggest stumbling block is, I think, that some people are suffering from a form of PTSD - post-traumatic stress disorder. And no, I'm not being even slightly facetious. Our local newspapers discuss this at great length, adding the comment that with the loss of other infrastructure, we have lost a lot of our physicians and psychiatrists to less devastated areas as well. The ones who are left ARE diagnosing PTSD in many cases. Perhaps the poor are caught in PTSD and don't know how to climb out of the "pit of despair" associated with the situation. But in this case, it is not necessarily due to being poor. It is due, literally, to being in a state of shock.
 
Hi Doc Man,

I remember reading reports that New Orleans was a crisis waiting to happen several years before the levees finaly failed. The city has been sinking for a long time.

I think everything you have said is fair and true but misses the point. Hard as it may seem, the city should not be re-built. Easy for me to say, I don't live there or have any connection to the place.

Spending money to rebuild something that will ultimately be innundated again is folly. I'm sure it is emotionally hard (an extreme understatement pehaps? - I'm not trying to belittle the situation or people involved) to accept that your home will not be reconstructed/repaired or indeed that it is completely worthless and unsaleable if it hapens to be you in this unfortunate position, but it doesn't alter the logic of the situation.

I think that large portions of the city have been declared 'no-rebuild' zones or whatever horrible buzzword has been invented for the situation. Residents of those areas may be agrieved, but they must also have closure - for them it is finished.

Those that are staying and trying to rebuild have a long road ahead.

It was horrible to watch the slo-mo disaster unfold on the 24 hour news channels and I was deeply affected by it at the time. The govermental failures were salt in the wounds as far as I could see. My sympathies to all thos that were affected (directly I mean, as opposed to newswatchers like me) and best wishes for the difficult road ahead, whether you are back in the Big Easy trying to rebuild or elsewhere trying to assembel a life from scratch.
 
Bodisathva said:
Is there a holiday I don't know about?:confused:

Yes. Qatar national day - 3rd September. As we have the Friday/Saturday weekend here, everyone is off for the long weekend. :)

I know Qatar isn't the source of the majority of the forum posts (I have tried to change that, on a one man crusade basis! :D ) so I don't think that is where everyone is, but I thought you might be interested. Or not.
 
Keith Nichols said:
Hi Doc Man,
I think everything you have said is fair and true but misses the point. Hard as it may seem, the city should not be re-built. [/
QUOTE]

I think that's the worst thing I've heard said about the situation. Towns are destroyed all the time by tornadoes, earthquakes, hurricanes, fires, etc...do you think we should never rebuild anything?

Oddly enough, you're not the first person I've heard say that, but the others I've heard say that have said it most likely for different reasons than yourself. They were close-minded self-proclaimed Christians who only seem to follow their religion when it's fit for them who thought the entire city was a city of sin. Someone tell that to the children who lost their parents in the hurricane or the parents who lost their children.
 
Vassago I think that's the worst thing I've heard said about the situation.[/QUOTE said:
Vassago,

It's easy for me to say and think things like that as I have no emotional connection - and certainly no judgmental motive on the city's morals or otherwise. New Orleans is a city I always wanted to visit but never got round to. My opinion is based on a pragmatic outlook on things. And I am not saying it to be horrible to anyone - it was, and is, a terrible xxxxxx calamity to visit on a population.

On a purely practical level, it is nonsensical to build a city on soft ground, beside and below a lake and an ocean. Then to extract ground water and oil (is this still the case?), so that the city further sinks. Sure, if you have enough money, you can stave things off for a while, but the sea always wins in the end.

The canal (South Street Canal? - I can't recall now) is diverting millions of tons of silt and further exacerbating the the erosion of protective sandbars. I apologize if I am mixing up unrelated stories form the press here - this may be wrong)

Without massive and sustained effort and changes, external to the city itself, all the rebuilding in New Orleans will be wasted effort in the long run. The sand bars are all but gone and without allowing the Mississippi to meander and flow free, they won't be coming back.

Problems with the practicalities of rebuilding are akin to the 'deck chairs on the Titanic' problem. Fully absorbing for those involved but missing the larger and more important danger.

I'm sorry you found my opinion horrible. I can understand that it is unwelcome to those with an emotional connection to New Orleans. I meant no ill-will.

On a historical note, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of abandoned cities from history. They were abandoned when bad things happened - flood, drought, volcano, earthquake, environmental degradation, etc, etc etc. The only difference now is that we have technology and money to remain in unsafe places when common sense tells us to move on. Would you buy a house on the flanks of Mount St. Hellens?

Reference New Scientist and Scientific American (and elsewhere) for articles of the Threat to New Orleans in the 3 years prior to Katrina.

Edit - spell checker picked out calumny rather than calamity -Doh!.
 
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Vassago said:
......They were close-minded self-proclaimed Christians who only seem to follow their religion when .....
To leaven the mix a little, on what started as a humorous thread, let me tell you that I am a born again atheist. There is no religious angle to my opinion.
 
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