Marital Discord (1 Viewer)

Brianwarnock said:

see Rich’s response, he is not always wrong.

Brian

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I know you meant to say rarely instead of "not always"

Brianwarnock said:

Whilst I sympathise with the couple mentioned Insurance is a business that has to assess the risks and charge accordingly, which is why my wife travels without cover for any problems relating to her cancer and I my eyes, but in a civilised society the society helps take care of the seriously ill, see Rich’s response, he is not always wrong.

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I'm not following you here. I can't really incorporate Rich's response into my thinking because I don't know if his reference to "National Insurance" is the government-provided health care or if it's something different. I just don't know; and even if I did I wouldn't know the particulars of that system. I can only comment on insurance as I know it, which is the insurance system in the USA. And since the USA's system is the only one that applies to Tess' situation, I'm not sure how discussing insurance in the UK applies.

Nevertheless, my point about my brother and sister-in-law is not about sympathizing with a crummy situation, it's about pointing out areas where the insurance system intentionally does not function the way you are lead to believe it is supposed to. I will agree that when a generally healthy person is stricken ill with a temporary condition (they have a heart attack, their appendix burst, whatever), insurance tends to function very well. But in my humble and limited experience, people who are seriously, chronically ill are too big of a drain on the system and basically left to fend for themselves. Part of my job is dealing with requests for corporate donations. It's not uncommon for me to come across a request for a charitable trust which benefits a single family who cannot afford the medical bills of a chronically ill child.

I agree that it is circumstancial, but basically as stated before there should at least be some sort of funds lined up to cover the cost of funeral expenses and other miscellaneous items. My wife's grandmother passed away last month and for as long as I've known her she has been extremely poor and lived off social security. My mother-in-law destroyed my wife's grandmother's credit by running up tons of debt ....not to mention my wife's before we met. Consequently, my wife's grandmother had barely anything to save toward her own funeral. She had some life insurance that we could use, but found out as she passed that it was not the correct insurance.....she had accidental death and dismemberment. So here the family is:
-grandmother had no money or assets
-mother-in-law is broke and has no job
-uncle has dis-owned family
-aunt and cousins no money to contribute
-brother-in-law who makes over 6 figures won't contribute a penny and has all but written off his own family off
-my wife and I were the only ones in a position to pay for it. F--king $8,000 bill when we are already about $37,000 in debt with credit cards and vehicle loans. Just typing this is getting me pissed all over again. I can't stand that my mother-in-law is a worthless, lazy, sack of sh-t that is the ABSOLUTE most irresponsible human on the planet, my wife's silly grandmother had the wrong insurance and her f--king snob ass brother won't lift a finger to help out. Oh, he can go out and spend X amount of money for brand new granite countertops in his kitchen and take his family to Disneyworld, but he can't help us. Don't worry about us. It's not like my wife planned on losing her job a while back. It's not like she's not trying to go back to school, get a good career going to help us climb out of debt. It's not like we don't want to fix the house up and save up to do things. We'll just put our life on hold so everyone else can go about theirs.

Oh geez...sorry to vent like that, but it pisses me off. Anyway, the moral to my story is whatever you choose to do just don't screw your family when you pass and stick them with bills that they shoud'nt have to deal with.

Chill baby, chill -

NJudson,

That sucks! Especially the part about the B-I-L who could actually afford to at least go HALF in with you.

I wonder, what if you refused to assume the burden as well? What would have happened to Grandmother?

All,

Thanks so much for all your thoughts and opinions. I had to laugh about the "sticking in the back of my mind" Tasslehoff's fear of "murder plot for money." My policy is worth twice as much as my husband's if I died first, and he knows it. Now... lol... if I insured myself for a pittance and took out $1 millon dollar life insurance on him, I could see the point.

And hooks,
Unfortunately you're wrong again... He would never buy insurance on his own so it's not the feeling that "She's taking care of the family, and that's MY job". He absolutely despises insurance. But you ARE right that I should just be happy he signed the papers.

Last night, he MADE me talk to him about it again. I thought, "Hell, we're never going to agree.... why drag all this up and continue the argument?" But, since that night he said "You'd be fine if I died. You're strong, you'll make it." I honestly lost some respect for him. I think a strong man is not one who beats his chest and can get loud and physically aggressive.... A strong man, in my opinion, is someone who you can lay your head on his chest and know that he'll do whatever he has to do to take care of you and keep you safe. That's emotionally, physically, and financially. I interpreted his act of denying me financial protection as either A) not caring about me, or B) severe shortsightedness and stupidity. So, I started to withdraw from him this week. He felt it. And he made me talk about it even though I didn't want to.

Once I explained to him how I felt, (it takes several times, you know... saying the same thing over and over again in different ways to get through.... so it was a pretty long discussion) he finally understood. We still disagree on the security insurance provides and whether or not it is a wise investment of funds, but now at least he thinks that it's a small price to pay for MY sense of security and to let me know he really does care about me.

NJudson said:

Oh geez...sorry to vent like that, but it pisses me off.

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No problem, bro. Sounds like you needed to vent.

TessB said:

Once I explained to him how I felt he finally understood. We still disagree on the security insurance provides and whether or not it is a wise investment of funds, but now at least he thinks that it's a small price to pay for MY sense of security and to let me know he really does care about me.

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Tess, that's wonderful to hear. It sounds like you've got yourself a good man and a good relationship.

I'm especially ahppy to hear it because my heckles were seriously raised when you wrote he had said, "You'd be fine if I died. You're strong, you'll make it." It's the same rationale my grandfather gave my grandmother when he left her to raise their three school-age daughters on her own while he ran off with his secretary: "You're strong, Lucille. You'll make it. She needs me." What a load of crap.

Kraj said:

I'm especially ahppy to hear it because my heckles were seriously raised when you wrote he had said, "You'd be fine if I died. You're strong, you'll make it." It's the same rationale my grandfather gave my grandmother when he left her to raise their three school-age daughters on her own while he ran off with his secretary: "You're strong, Lucille. You'll make it. She needs me." What a load of crap.

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lol... you think YOUR heckles were raised!!!!
We should compare heckles sometime, Greg my dear!

TessB said:

We should compare heckles sometime, Greg my dear!

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You're a married woman!

Rich said:

You're a married woman!

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LOL... I'm sure my being married isn't the part that Greg would object to....

Tasslehoff said:

3) Money wouldn't make me feel all THAT better if someone I loved died

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The point is not that money is supposed to make you "feel better" if someone you love dies. The point is that in most cases, especially for women, losing an employed spouse can financially devastate a person. Imagine the horrible grief of losing your partner, the love of your life. Now imagine how much worse that would be if you were unable to grieve properly because you were too busy worrying about losing your house and providing for your children.

$110K insurance for the primary breadwinner of a family with dependent children is nothing. There should be enough insurance money to pay off all debts, including the mortgage, and get the kids through college.

TessB said:

LOL... I'm sure my being married isn't the part that Greg would object to....

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Life is often full of suprises, as they say

Rich said:

Life is often full of suprises, as they say

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How right you are...

Idjit said:

The point is not that money is supposed to make you "feel better" if someone you love dies. The point is that in most cases, especially for women, losing an employed spouse can financially devastate a person. Imagine the horrible grief of losing your partner, the love of your life. Now imagine how much worse that would be if you were unable to grieve properly because you were too busy worrying about losing your house and providing for your children.

$110K insurance for the primary breadwinner of a family with dependent children is nothing. There should be enough insurance money to pay off all debts, including the mortgage, and get the kids through college.

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Exactly my thoughts, Idjit. $110k would simply be JUST enough to pay off the house & most of the other debt, and then free up that money so I could actually make it on my own income. Even then, I'd have to give up some of life's luxuries. If I didn't have it, sigh... I would probably have to refinance the house for another 30 years to get the mortgage payment down to where I could handle it alone.

I think that when a spouse dies, the survivor naturally goes through a period of mourning where they actually get angry at the deceased loved one for leaving them alone. I'm sure I would as well, but I think that stage would last a lot longer if he not only left me alone without his emotional support and love, but left me to struggle financially as well.

I'm pleased that things are working out ok for you Tess . Your initial post sure produced some emotional responses, there are some emotionally scarred people out there, even Greg seemed to lose his usual cool rational approach and appeared to tell me to butt out.

Once again I hope things go well

Brian

Brianwarnock said:

I'm pleased that things are working out ok for you Tess . Your initial post sure produced some emotional responses, there are some emotionally scarred people out there, even Greg seemed to lose his usual cool rational approach and appeared to tell me to butt out.

Once again I hope things go well

Brian

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It IS a discussion that lends itself to emotional debate. And, that's why I think it was such a difficult thing for my husband and me to confront. And, I don't think Gregg was telling you to "butt out", Brian.... he was merely saying that he (like I) have no concept of your country's insurance schema and therefore could not take it into consideration and make any educated judgement on how that particular program fit into the situation at hand.

Things on the homefront have improved, however, I'm a realistic person and I foresee that this is not the last "discussion" my husband and I have about uncomfortable issues such as this.

But now that that's settled, please share some information on how your country approaches the death of its cherished citizens. Do they make sure they get proper memorial and burial regardless of income limits of the survivors? Do they extend aid to the widows and widowers in their time of need for a period of time? How exactly does your program work?

Tess, Greg and I were not discussing Death issues but insurance, illness and its impact on wealth. As Rich pointed out our National insurance funds, inpart, our national health service which provides medical care free at the point of delivery. Without it my wife's treatment would have probably bankrupted us by now, but Insurance companies do not promise to deliver this kind of service and I don't think we can expect them to take on risks that would bankrupt themselves.

Since this discussion upsets Greg I don't intend to take it further.

Brian

Fair enough.
I am not one to encourage people to talk about things that make them uncomfortable or continue discussions where there will simply never be any sort of agreement. (Although, I'm sure this is not the case between you and Greg....)

But, Brian, could you please share with me, as I am genuinely interested in this, what Great Britain's policy is toward widows and widowers as far as "social security", and what happens to the "poor" deceased. Do they get proper burial and memorial regardless of their relatives ability to pay?

And, whatever the answer is... I sincerely don't know it ahead of time, which is why I am asking... but don't take the question as a wry attack on your country.... our country handles it in a very capitalistic manner. Nothing is subsidized, I believe. I think we cremate and dispose of "John and Jane Does" as well as "unclaimed" persons, but I have no idea what happens to people who die that have no kin to pay for their end of life issues. This is why I posed the question to NJudson "What would have become of Grandmother if no one had assumed the burden of her expenses?"

I greatly appreciate the response, and the knowledge that comes with it.

Well Tess, I don't know the answer to your exact question, i.e. what happens if nobody assumes responsibilty.

For people who do and fulfill certain conditions such as

If you or your partner getting:

Income Support?
Income-based Jobseeker's Allowance?
Pension Credit?
Housing Benefit?
Council Tax Benefit?
Child Tax Credit which includes an amount higher than the family element?
Working Tax Credit where a disability or severe disability element is included in the award?

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then help is available, but very much doubt that is the situation being discussed. If I get time I will attempt a bit of research, after all you have got me curious now.

Brian

Idjit said:

$110K insurance for the primary breadwinner of a family with dependent children is nothing. There should be enough insurance money to pay off all debts, including the mortgage, and get the kids through college.

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You can have as much insurance money you like paid to dependants - provided you can afford the premiums.

My wife stands to get the mortgage paid and a huge lump sum if I die (sadly not if commit suicide ) - as I do if she dies.

I've always said 'I hope I die before I get old'. I certainly don't plan to be around >70 years old. I will have no family by then, no kids and highly likely no wife. So at 68 or 69 I sell up and blow the lot

Col

Idjit said:

... grieve properly...

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Yeah, let's put that high on the priority list...

"Honey I think we need to take out another 100k on you so I will be able to grieve properly if you die..."