Marital Discord (2 Viewers)

[TessB]

Ok... we're having a huge fight.
I want life insurance from my company. I can insure myself for up to $220,000, and my spouse for half that amount. It will cost me about $60 a paycheck, every two weeks.

Since I am insuring myself to the maximum, (and that is over the $70k guaranteed issue amount) we each have to fill out an Evidence of Insurability form.

My take on the matter, 'I care enough about my husband and my children to know that, for MY share of the $60 a month, upon my premature death, they will be taken care of.' My husband can grieve for me, pay off whatever bills he needs to, pay off the house, bury me... and still be able to take a couple months off from work to deal with his grief before he hooks up with some other woman... lol.... and forgets all about me. And my kids will inherit enough money so that they can go to college, or put down a decent down payment on a house. (They would each receive $22,000, which represents 10% of my policy.)

My husband's take, "I hate insurance, I don't want a dime going to insurance companies... I'm NOT living in fear." HIS share, which would come out of my paycheck, by the way... and as I said, is HALF of what I'm insuring myself for... is a THIRD of of what I would spend on my own. I take this quite personally. I think "He doesn't give a CRAP about what I'd have to go through if he died tomorrow." He ACTUALLY said to me, "You'd be fine." Again, he has no alternate plan.... just knows I'm a strong woman. Bull! I am SO pissed!!!!! (For my British friends, that means extremely angry... not drunk.)

My friends say this is a Man/Woman thing... and that men do not deal with the reality of their own mortality the way women do. And that women are more able to deal with the ramifications of their own mortality better than men can. I want, on my deathbed to think "at least they won't suffer financially" I swear to GOD, the only reason I wake up and do ANYTHING in my life is because of the responsibility I feel to my family... Otherwise, I'm too f***ing TIRED! If I could lay in bed all day and watch TV, I would. If I died, I would consider it a BREAK!!!! So, if I do die, I don't want, on my deathbed to think , "What the hell are they going to do without me?" Yes, I know I am a wonderful influence in my children's lives.... but THAT isn't something I can replace. The ONLY thing I can replace, upon my death, is a fraction of my income I would have made upon my "mature" death. (5x my current income now, in case you're wondering... and I know you were... lol)

Ok... so my questions is... what do you think of life insurance? And what do you think of someone who wouldn't buy life insurance for his family, even if it was extremely inexpensive. And... what do you think someone feels for his wife if he chose not to insure his life, even though he could afford it. And... what do you think of someone who chooses to buy the maximum life insurance, even though the odds of dying are slim? And, what do you think of life insurance companies? And what do you think about the man/woman psyche that may determine their thoughts/feelings about life insurance.

I'm VERY, VERY interested in your opinions. It will, or MAY help me understand my husband's stance.

By the way.... he relented... signed the papers.... I have to fill in all the blanks, but he gave in and let me insure him. Of course, he had to make sure I KNEW that he was COMPLETELY against this and that I was wasting our (his) money on a load of CRAP that the insurance companies were disseminating. Personally, I think he really wanted the insurance, but didn't want to admit that it actually COULD be a reality that he could die prematurely, like my brother-in-law (who has terminal cancer) is... leaving my wonderful and beautifully natured sister in SUCH a financial as well as emotional lurch.....but maybe DEEP, DEEP down, he wanted to take care of me. Either that or he was sick of fighting....lol. (By the way, I've ALWAYS carried life insurance for BOTH of us, throughout the years, ever since I started working full time when the kids got into school..... we never had it before, and he's never purchased it on his own.)

Tell me your thoughts, please?

Anyone else deal with this horrendous subject?

 

[hooks]

Here is my short opinion, mind you i am a man and am most likely wrong. As always.

I think it all comes down to the man wanting to buy/provide the insurance for the woman not the other way around.

You are telling him that you do not think that he could handle things after you are gone. I think this is how he sees it. Simple as that.

I think you should just be happy that he agreed to sign the papers and not try to figure out us men. We are a weird bunch.


I haven't even though about life insurance yet but I will be getting married soon and will have to face this issue. I have no problems with getting life insurance. I think life insurance is a good thing to have as long as you are not living paycheck to paycheck and have the money to spare.

Hooks

 

[Brianwarnock]

I don't want to comment on individual cases but as soon as our first child arrived I thought that I ought to put in place provision for the family in case anything happened to me, even if it meant I had no spare cash.

Brian

 

[KenHigg]

Tess, I would at a minimum set it up where you can make it on one income if something happened to him. You should be able to get a policy associated with the mortgage that would pay the house off that is can be substantially cheaper than other forms of insurance. If he does not want to help with that then I don't know what to tell you...

There is some good reading on term, whole life, etc HERE

 

[Bodisathva]

In certain circumstances, I would agree that insurance is rediculous. Flood Insurance for a home situated on a hill, outside of flood range (unless you're Noah) for instance...but I don't know anyone for whom death is not inevitable. A few months ago, my boss, a man of 40 years, wife, three young boys, and just passed his yearly physical with flying colors, died while skiing with his family. No warning, no signs, just collapsed. Death can come suddenly...and unannounced.

My wife and I just bought a home that I could afford on my own, but she would have to sell if something were to happen to me. We're in the process of getting life insurance on the mortgage in addition to the standard life insurance policies. She struggled with me to reach this point in our lives and I don't think she should have to suffer if I'm no longer there. Given the relatively insignificant costs I consider the policies in much the same way that I consider condoms...it is much more effective to have and not need than to need and not have.

 

[Len Boorman]

Hmmm Another male opinion

I always had enough insurance to clear any mortgage and provide some extra cash.
Now that the
kids are independant
the house is paid for
we have some reasonable savings
I have pension benefits with widows benefit as well
I am approaching retirement

I am letting all life insurances mature and not being renewed

Do not intend to pay life insurance when retired.

Wife did actually query this but when I explained the sort of funds that would be potentially available she did agree that I will only make a small dent in the coffers

So really it does totally depend on individual circumstances but I do think that provision should be made to clear property mortgage type things

L

 

[Rich]

I am letting all life insurances mature and not being renewed


L

Will they become "fully paid up"?

 

[Tasslehoff]

Morbid

Okay, I'm a guy and if I was asked to get life insurance by the woman I loved, I would raise only a minor and calm five-minute fuss--to see if she was serious--and if she did not change her mind I would say yes. However, this would only be for her peace of mind.

Inside, I would be screaming, "$#@% NO!" at the first mention of life insurance for these reasons:
1) The thought of my death is deeply upsetting and I don't want to admit it could ever happen--buying life insurance is like admitting defeat to death

2) That is money out of my pocket going to people I hate

3) Money wouldn't make me feel all THAT better if someone I loved died

4) And way, deep down...I would suspect a plot to murder me for money.

Of course I would never admit this last one as even remotely possible even to myself (besides, if I made her that miserable then maybe I would deserve it)...but it would still stick somewhere in my subconscious and I would never feel quite safe again when I remembered that I had life insurance.

 

[Rich]

My brother in law died of cancer a few years ago, he had no life insurance, my sister lumbers from one financial crisis to another.
I think anyone with a family who isn't covered is either selfish or stupid

 

[Kraj]

Personally, I think that insurance is - generally - a scam. I do have life insurance, but it is a relatively small amount (basically I just don't want anyone to be burdend with funeral costs) and it is part of annuity that builds value. If it wasn't combined with an annuity I wouldn't have done it.

On the other hand, I have no dependants. If I did, I would be making damn sure they'd be provided for if I died. If I were dead-set against insurance, then I would: get an inexpensive term policy, maybe for ten years. And while that was in effect, I would be making regular payments into savings to build up enough of a nest egg so that insurance would become uneccessary by the time the term is up.

I don't know you or your husband or the situation well enough to possibly hazard a guess as to his motivations or thought process. I would say, though, that whatever the reason the only responsible conclusion is to provide for your children even if that means putting money into a system you despise.

 

[jsanders]

College...

 

[Rich]

College...

Studen t

 

[MrsGorilla]

Thankfully my husband doesn't feel the same way about insurance as yours does, Tess. Neither one of us felt the need to raise a fuss about it, and both of us want the others in our family to be cared for if something happens to either of us. I mean, death comes to everyone whether you're "ready" for it or not. Better to be prepared.

 

[Len Boorman]

Will they become "fully paid up"?

No

They are all assorted with some sort of investment.

With Profits not doing so well now but only a little while to go on those

Others are an investment basically with some life insurance as a benefit

L

 

[Brianwarnock]

Personally, I think that insurance is - generally - a scam. /QUOTE]
Come now Greg Insurance is necessary for our modern life, it not only enables commerce to function but imagine the risks of driving, owning a home or any worthwhile goods without insurance.

Insurance was devised to spread bad luck and enabled the entrepeneurs of the 19th century to trade.

Brian

 

[Kraj]

Come now Greg Insurance is necessary for our modern life, it not only enables commerce to function but imagine the risks of driving, owning a home or any worthwhile goods without insurance. Insurance was devised to spread bad luck and enabled the entrepeneurs of the 19th century to trade.

I'm not suggesting insurance is evil or completely valueless or that millions of people haven't uttered the phrase, "Thank God I'm insured", and I do understand its benefits. I do, however, think it does society more harm than good when you approach it from a philosophical level. I can elaborate if you wish, but I'm not particularly articulate this morning.

I can, however, give an example of a situation that shapes my opinion on insurance: My brother got married in 2001. His wife had suffered from chronic migrane headaches since she was young. No big deal, she was used to it. My brother has a decent job managing a Walgreen's and she worked for the same company. About a year later, she developed other symptoms and - to make a very, very long story short - she has two extremely rare conditions simultaneously: chiari malformation and pseudotumor. In brief, the malformation means her brain doesn't fit into her skull correctly and the pseudotumor means she has a build-up of fluid pressure on her brain and eyes.

What this translates into is regular trips to the hospital, surgeries, loads of medications, and general debilitation. When you're talking about spreading around bad luck, this is a couple whose bad luck needed to be spread around. These are the type of people whom insurance was supposed to take care of. Regardless, they had to declare bankruptcy recently because they were not able to pay the medical bills insurance wouldn't cover. So how, exactly, does insurance help society function in a case like that?

 

[Rich]

So how, exactly, does insurance help society function in a case like that?

That's why we have a National Insurance scheme

 

[Bodisathva]

I might as well...

The insurance companies offer a wide range of plans, which they in turn try to sell to the employers (notice that does not say individuals). The employer makes a determination on what co-pays, deductibles, lifetime maximums, and a plethora of other options, that it will make available to it's employees based upon the final, bottom line cost to the employer, not the employee...then the employee gets to choose from the "preselected plans". Then you get into the concept of self insurance, where the Insurance company acts as administrator only, the employer pays all bills, and the employee thinks they have "insurance". While the insurance company does administer claims and issue cards, benefits are all paid OOP by the employer, so max and co-pay benefits tend to decrease...along with many hidden "gotchas".

Then we have the tendency of people to use insurance, when they have it, even if they don't really need it. They go to the ER because they have a sniffle and they have a $20 co-pay...but they would never dream of paying the $600 ER fee if it came out of their own pockets. That type of stuff does wonders for the estimated cost of health care.

IMHO, so take it for what it's worth, it is the tendency of the employer to save a buck at the expense of it's employees and the employees only looking for what they can get "right now" not long term, that creates the problems. Shop, look, compare, do the math. Insurance companies are not evil, but, like many things in life, they will allow you to make dumb decisions...they didn't take us to raise, they are businesses that try to make money.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I realise I am a bit slow getting back to you Kraj but I keep getting fed up with the site.

Whilst I sympathise with the couple mentioned Insurance is a business that has to assess the risks and charge accordingly, which is why my wife travels without cover for any problems relating to her cancer and I my eyes, but in a civilised society the society helps take care of the seriously ill, see Rich’s response, he is not always wrong.

Brian

 

[lmnop7854]

We may want to separate the thread into views on Life Insuracne versus Health Insurance. I work in health insurance, and in my region, very rarely are services not covered for seriously ill people. The only instance in which this becomes a problem, would be in the case of custodial care, which would be where a person doesn't need medical services, just housekeeping and personal care services. As in the case of my dad, with ALS - he doesn't need home care for medications or anything, just to get him in and out of bed and showered and dressed, and in most cases, that is not covered by health insurance. But when I hear where people have been admitted to the hospital, or have gone to the ER, purchased medications, and the services are not covered by insurance, it makes me ill. I wish I could invite everyone to my town so they could have coverage.

Life insurance - I'm not married, so it is only insuring my baby, and since she is a minor, she would be cared for by other family members in the event of my demise, so I don't feel like I have to provide for her entire life if I die. I am insured for enough so that I could be buried properly, and that is about it. My will takes care of the rest of it.

And I agree with Tasslehoff, in that I hate even signing these papers, because the thought of my death gives me the creeps. I have dragged my feet for some time on my will - it isn't even finished yet - because I have this crazy superstition that once it is finalized, I will kick off. Stranger things have happened.

Lisa