Are you a Lefty or a Conservative

[dan-cat]

You are like our Greenies, won't answer the question.

You are laboring under the delusion that you are in complete control of what is going on around you. That's why you box people up into categories that you can quantify. I'm answering your question, you just don't like the answer.

I don't believe you like many others, have the mental capacity to use deadly weaponry in self-defense in a responsible objective way.

I'll repeat the answer that I keep telling you and that you're not hearing.

People who get a thrill out of gun ownership, as you obviously do, are the least qualified to use guns responsibly in terms of self-defense. For people like you, you should certainly NOT be allowed to defend yourself with deadly weaponry.

Well, he has broken into the house, that makes it pretty clear. If he breaks into the house then intent is not good. Why when his intent is not good should I have to be placed in a position that is not good.

You seem to think that if someone breaks into a house they have some sort of rights. As far as I am concerned once someone breaks into the house all rights are gone.

Case proven. You immediately assume that deadly force is an appropriate response for all situations. It's why you skip point 2. You don't have the capacity to judge each case on it's merits. You blanket each situation as the same. In much the same way that you blanket me as a greenie. You are not mentally qualified to use deadly force objectively.

Just the opposite. If someone breaks into the house then it should be assumed that any bad intent on their part is possible. On the other hand you seem to assume he is some poor misguided person whose mother treated him badly when he was kid and you should just accept it and take what he does as your contribution to his welfare.

See previous point about your incapacity to gauge the situation objectively without your pre-conceived warped notion of heroism.

Of course the reality is if there is an intruder you shoot to kill. Then no court case. The second reality in my case is the only way a person would break into the house if he was on drugs or a complete nut case. The reason being is it is too obvious that the house is heavily armed and well prepared. Thus if i have an intruder he will be either on drugs or a nut case and so needs to be dealt with accordingly.

A complete delusional state of omniscience and omnipotence. The reality is you have neither which disqualifies you from gun ownership entirely, in my book. Your government should tie this loop-hole quickly before your omniscience convinces itself that the nextdoor neighbor is breaking in for a cup of sugar.

In the case of other home owners, well....we get to read about them in the paper each day in Sydney.

It doesn't surprise that your outlook is based on what someone else is feeding you.

As I said above, if he breaks in then he is a case to be dealt with. If he only wants to steal the laptop etc then another house will be a better prospect.

You missed the point entirely because you believe you are omniscient. YOU ARE NOT. You think you are superior to the assailant when you have NO CLUE as to whether you are or not. This outlook disables you from gauging the situation rationally.

But we come back to the opening post. You want to stop me. But I don't want to force you to protect yourself, that is your business.

I want to stop people like you who actually enjoy the prospect of using deadly force against an assailant from being able to do so. There is no knowing what situation you'll warp into an acceptable premise to exercise this perverse desire.

 

[dan-cat]

Forgot this one.

In fact what happens is the applicant will in fact want the rifle for hunting, target shooting etc.

I think from the practical point of view "self defense" is not accepted and thus the only applications are from people where the license is primarily for hunting or target shooting.

But when it comes to self defense then the law allows you to use whatever is the best method available at the time.

So the applicant carries the concept of field hunting back into the home. Go figure.

 

[dan-cat]

Firstly, there is no one and I mean no one can enter here without me waking and well before I get up.

People like you are actually the easiest to exploit. You have a set list of parameters to work with which are inflexible and thus easily predictable.


You just broadcast on a public domain where your gun is located and what ammunition you use. Feel free to share more details that I need to circumvent. How about a floor plan of your property? What a numpty.

 

[Mike375]

You just broadcast on a public domain where your gun is located and what ammunition you use. Feel free to share more details that I need to circumvent. How about a floor plan of your property? What a numpty.

So you know it is a 30-378 loaded with 125 Sierras in a safe next to the bed. So what. Tell me what you can do with that information.

You are getting all your stuff from movies and media and that inlcudes your opinions.

 

[Lightwave]

No matter how you look at it, total crime rates per capita are still higher in the UK than in the US. The tools that are used are just that, tools, people will do what they do regardless of what laws are passed. Criminals won't willingly give up their guns, so why should I?

Maybe total crime but murder is higher in US according to this source

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Murder is really a terrible crime... and one for which there is no restitution

Here's total crime per capita

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita

I see Columbia on a total crime per capita is quite low down the list. Who wants to swap their crime rate for Columbia's?

Looking at the UK and the US alone (murder)
For every million people in the UK 14 are murdered while in the US that figure is 42 that's 28 people of a differenct . That difference starts to mount up when you talk about national populations.

Total crime rate sounds like a complete fudge

 

[Vassago]

Maybe total crime but murder is higher in US according to this source

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Murder is really a terrible crime... and one for which there is no restitution

Here's total crime per capita

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita

I see Columbia on a total crime per capita is quite low down the list. Who wants to swap their crime rate for Columbia's?

Looking at the UK and the US alone (murder)
For every million people in the UK 14 are murdered while in the US that figure is 42 that's 28 people of a differenct . That difference starts to mount up when you talk about national populations.

Total crime rate sounds like a complete fudge

Yes, murder is higher in the US. I wasn't disputing that, but being that murder is a personal crime in 95% of all cases and other acts of crime are random (carjacking, burglary, etc...) which are all higher in the UK, I'd rather take my chances here than there. There is no dispute that having guns legal helps deter criminal behavior, including murder, from the innocent, or at least keeps it amongst themselves for the most part.

 

[PNGBill]

I am not so sure Murder is the worst crime.

There are some evil and violent people around that can and do cause terrible injury to innocent people.

While I agree on many scales this is not as bad as murder I can imagine some victims could question this.

Some years ago a girl had her arms cut off to make the job of raping her easier and I think she was blinded to reduce her ability to give evidence
My god, anyone who can believe that such a crime is less then murder, to me, has some explaining to do.
In a lot of respects, not only was this girls "life" taken from her but also her parents would have lost a big part of their life.

No idea what the outcome was.

Here in PNG it is common to have "ra** Gates" fitted in a house. This allows intruders to enter the house but not the sleeping area.

An old saying is if you need to defend yourself always fire at least two shots and make sure your last shot is through the ceiling.
It is important to give an armed intruder fair warning before they are put where they belong.

 

[Lightwave]

OK thankfully I haven't come across that kind of crime PNG. My point is that extreme physical crimes maybe shouldn't be mixed in with the statistics for other obviously bad crimes but ones that the victim can potentially recover from.

eg Theft / Financial Fraud / Fully recoverable physical assault / Robbery

I know they can be very bad but you can recover from these.

At no costs do you want to be in the stats for the unspeakable physical crimes.

 

[Adam Caramon]

Total crime rate sounds like a complete fudge

Yeah, that's what my research was indicating as well. That's why I was asking for the specific source Vassago was referencing. It would be interesting to see how the information was presented/who was presenting it.

Its just like sports. You can take an American football team with a record of 4-12, and listen to an announcer come up with an obscure stat like "When the temperature is below 50 degrees and its raining, this team is 3-0." It doesn't really mean what it seems to mean, which is why you have to see that information yourself and draw your own conclusions.

 

[Thales750]

Only an extremely naive individual would believe that gun control laws prevent criminals, terrorists, or other bad guys from owning weapons.

In Pakistan they have an entire region of the country producing illegal guns; they can copy any modern weapon, including high end European, and American military weapons. Of course mostly they make a version of the AK47 the most duplicated firearm in the world.

So yeah, let’s just disarm the entire law abiding world, because that will surely decrease the number of assailants with guns.

I own a machine shop and if I wanted to I could produce high grade weapons that could accurately hit a target a kilometer away. And I have one in several hundred thousand shops just like it around the world.

 

[PNGBill]

My understanding of Malaysia's law is that if you are caught with an illegal firearm, it is the death penalty.
If so, a harsh law but certainly one that has a real chance of getting guns out of the non law abiding community.
I believe it is a response to the Emergency they had in the early 60's.

Papua New Guinea is a classic example of how strict gun laws only effect the law abiding group.
The country is awash with illegal weapons, some of which found their way from Police and Defence armories and the authorities appear to either not be able or not want to do anything about it.

Some regions are on there way to becoming Warlord areas as in Afghanistan.

 

[Alc]

Yes, murder is higher in the US. I wasn't disputing that, but being that murder is a personal crime in 95% of all cases

95% of ALL cases? Perhaps the vast majority, but are we talking just the US or worldwide? In either case, I'd say this is a contentious statement, at best.

and other acts of crime are random (carjacking, burglary, etc...)

Not always, far from it. Are you seriously saying that nobody ever gets burgled, for example, by someone they know? If so, you're either living in a dream world or trying so hard to get a point across that you've started going for pure black or white statements, as opposed to the more balanced posts you usually make. When I was a lot younger, we were burgled by someone we knew well. Am I the only person on the planet to got through that? Doubtful.

There is no dispute that having guns legal helps deter criminal behavior, including murder, from the innocent, or at least keeps it amongst themselves for the most part.

No dispute by you, certainly. The fact that crime in general is lower in the US than the UK can no more be definitively attributed the the fact that people in the former have more guns than in the latter than it can to the fact that the US borders the Pacific while the UK doesn't. Saying that the lower crime rate is definitely due to one factor implies that all other factors are either identical or irrelevant. Neither is true.

 

[groengoen]

if a conservative [phrase X]

Analyzing [phrase X] one finds that they are things that a conservative wouldn't "do", except for the last sentence, so [phrase X] is only introduced in order to have a go at "lefty/greenie". Notice too that "lefty/greenie" is derogatory while "conservative" is the polite phrase. Methinks this is not totally unbiased, so calling it the "truth" is a bit of laugh and provides the requisite humour.

 

[Big Pat]

Chris Rock the comedian has a line about how it would be OK to have guns plentiful and cheap provided bullets cost $50 each (I probably got that figure wrong but his point is clear). As he says, there'd be a hell of a lot fewer innocent bystanders shot.

 

[Jacob Mathai]

From the Manitoba Herald 10/27/2010

Manitoba Herald
Canadians: Build a Fence!
by Clive Runnels, October 27, 2010

The flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada
has intensified in the past week, sparking calls for increased patrols
to stop the illegal immigration. The recent actions of the Tea Party
are prompting an exodus among left-leaning citizens who fear they'll
soon be required to hunt, pray, and to agree with Bill O'Reilly and
Glenn Beck.

Canadian border farmers say it's not uncommon to see dozens of
sociology professors, animal-rights activists and Unitarians crossing
their fields at night.

"I went out to milk the cows the other day, and there was a Hollywood
producer huddled in the barn," said Manitoba farmer Red Greenfield,
whose acreage borders North Dakota. The producer was cold, exhausted
and hungry.

“He asked me if I could spare a latte and some free-range chicken. When
I said I didn't have any, he left before I even got a chance to show
him my screenplay, eh?"

In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher
fences, but the liberals scaled them. He then installed loudspeakers
that blared Rush Limbaugh across the fields. "Not real effective," he
said. "The liberals still got through and Rush annoyed the cows so
much that they wouldn't give any milk."

Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet
liberals near the Canadian border, pack them into Volvo station wagons
and drive them across the border where they are simply left to fend
for themselves.

“A lot of these people are not prepared for our rugged conditions," an
Ontario border patrolman said. "I found one carload without a single
bottle of imported drinking water. They did have a nice little Napa Valley
Cabernet, though."

When liberals are caught, they're sent back across the border, often
wailing loudly that they fear retribution from conservatives.

Rumors have been circulating about plans being made to build
re-education camps where liberals will be forced to drink domestic
beer and watch NASCAR races.

In recent days, liberals have turned to ingenious ways of crossing the
border. Some have been disguised as senior citizens taking a bus trip
to buy cheap Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a half-dozen
young vegans in powdered wig disguises, Canadian immigration
authorities began stopping buses and quizzing the supposed senior
citizens about Perry Como and Rosemary Clooney to prove that they were
alive in the '50s. "If they can't identify the accordion player on The

Lawrence Welk Show, we become very suspicious about their age." an
official said.

Canadian citizens have complained that the illegal immigrants are
creating an organic-broccoli shortage and are renting all the Michael
Moore movies.

"I really feel sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy
just can't support them."

An Ottawa resident said. "How many art-history majors does one country need?"

 

[Vassago]

From the Manitoba Herald 10/27/2010

Manitoba Herald
Canadians: Build a Fence!
by Clive Runnels, October 27, 2010

The flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada
has intensified in the past week, sparking calls for increased patrols
to stop the illegal immigration. The recent actions of the Tea Party
are prompting an exodus among left-leaning citizens who fear they'll
soon be required to hunt, pray, and to agree with Bill O'Reilly and
Glenn Beck.

Canadian border farmers say it's not uncommon to see dozens of
sociology professors, animal-rights activists and Unitarians crossing
their fields at night.

"I went out to milk the cows the other day, and there was a Hollywood
producer huddled in the barn," said Manitoba farmer Red Greenfield,
whose acreage borders North Dakota. The producer was cold, exhausted
and hungry.

“He asked me if I could spare a latte and some free-range chicken. When
I said I didn't have any, he left before I even got a chance to show
him my screenplay, eh?"

In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher
fences, but the liberals scaled them. He then installed loudspeakers
that blared Rush Limbaugh across the fields. "Not real effective," he
said. "The liberals still got through and Rush annoyed the cows so
much that they wouldn't give any milk."

Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet
liberals near the Canadian border, pack them into Volvo station wagons
and drive them across the border where they are simply left to fend
for themselves.

“A lot of these people are not prepared for our rugged conditions," an
Ontario border patrolman said. "I found one carload without a single
bottle of imported drinking water. They did have a nice little Napa Valley
Cabernet, though."

When liberals are caught, they're sent back across the border, often
wailing loudly that they fear retribution from conservatives.

Rumors have been circulating about plans being made to build
re-education camps where liberals will be forced to drink domestic
beer and watch NASCAR races.

In recent days, liberals have turned to ingenious ways of crossing the
border. Some have been disguised as senior citizens taking a bus trip
to buy cheap Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a half-dozen
young vegans in powdered wig disguises, Canadian immigration
authorities began stopping buses and quizzing the supposed senior
citizens about Perry Como and Rosemary Clooney to prove that they were
alive in the '50s. "If they can't identify the accordion player on The

Lawrence Welk Show, we become very suspicious about their age." an
official said.

Canadian citizens have complained that the illegal immigrants are
creating an organic-broccoli shortage and are renting all the Michael
Moore movies.

"I really feel sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy
just can't support them."

An Ottawa resident said. "How many art-history majors does one country need?"

I love it! It makes fun of the extremists on both sides, although it seems to poke a little more fun on the liberal side.

 

[murphybridget]

I love it! It makes fun of the extremists on both sides, although it seems to poke a little more fun on the liberal side.

Identifying a suspicious person with the help of an old accordion player is hilarious.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Identifying a suspicious person with the help of an old accordion player is hilarious.

First, I agree - though there were as many as three accordionists on the show including Lawrence himself and Myron Floren.

Second, just be aware that you awakened a 13-year-old thread. You never know what happens when you resurrect such a monster. AND it appears that nothing much has changed since then anyway.

 

[jdraw]

Doc. Perhaps, proof that history does repeat!
I am old enough to remember Myron -eh- Floren, as LW introduced him.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I'd forgotten how much I loved the Laurence Welk show. There is really nothing like a good polka.

I'd also forgotten that those of the left can "believe" that a person breaking into your house deserves some kind of consideration. Not sure how he would feel if that same person broke into his house. I guess it's a little like the politicians who vote to defund the police but are not reluctant to call them for protection when they are at risk.