Gun homicides are four times the world average - guess where?

[Rich]

I reckon Ken's summary is correct.

Good luck.

-dK

Yes, you are using the same old tired arguments.........
good luck

 

[Alc]

We will never agree and for a fundamental reason.
I prefer full freedom and whatever negatives come as a price for that freedom. You prefer gov't intervention and whatever negatives come as a price.

I'm a just a bit more of a realist. The only two options aren't one extreme or the other. The government is infinitely better funded and manned than I, alone, am. They make the laws, so they should enforce them. If it came down to me to do that job for them, that would be a pretty sad indictment of the country.

Doesn't Australia have laws? Who's responsible for all of these, if not the government? You don't have 'full freedom' now (far from it), yet you talk about it as if that's what you currently enjoy.

If you actually had 'full freedom' and everyone were allowed to do what he or she wanted, there would be no laws and we wouldn't be having this conversation, as you'd be too busy defending your property against anyone who wanted to demonstrate their 'freedom' to take it from you.

 

[Mike375]

Doesn't Australia have laws? Who's responsible for all of these, if not the government? You don't have 'full freedom' now (far from it), yet you talk about it as if that's what you currently enjoy.

More regulations keep coming and in all areas of life. We are way removed from having freedom.

The average Australian seems to love regulations to solve everything.

 

[dan-cat]

If you actually had 'full freedom' and everyone were allowed to do what he or she wanted, there would be no laws and we wouldn't be having this conversation, as you'd be too busy defending your property against anyone who wanted to demonstrate their 'freedom' to take it from you.

I thought that was what life was like in Australia...

 

[KenHigg]

The average Australian seems to love regulations to solve everything.

Same here. We cry about how the politicians screw everything up then we want to give more to screw up... Don't make good sense.

 

[Alc]

More regulations keep coming and in all areas of life. We are way removed from having freedom.

The average Australian seems to love regulations to solve everything.

So, if you don't have this 'full freedom', how can you say that you prefer it? You may prefer the idea of it, in theory, but I doubt even that's true.

As I said, 'full freedom' would allow anyone to do what they wanted, whenever they wanted. Do you have any family? How safe would you feel they were in such a 'free' place? Even if you feel fully secure, gun in hand, at some point you or they would need to go out alone. Without any laws to protect them, can you honestly say it would be an improvement?

 

[Mike375]

I thought that was what life was like in Australia...

It looks like that when we go shooting, especially the buggies, good for chasing roos

 

[Alc]

I thought that was what life was like in Australia...

I'm sure even documentaries like that are somewhat skewed

 

[Mike375]

So, if you don't have this 'full freedom', how can you say that you prefer it? You may prefer the idea of it, in theory, but I doubt even that's true.

As I said, 'full freedom' would allow anyone to do what they wanted, whenever they wanted. Do you have any family? How safe would you feel they were in such a 'free' place? Even if you feel fully secure, gun in hand, at some point you or they would need to go out alone. Without any laws to protect them, can you honestly say it would be an improvement?

Because we did have it years ago and not just with guns.

 

[Alc]

Originally Posted by Alc
So, if you don't have this 'full freedom', how can you say that you prefer it? You may prefer the idea of it, in theory, but I doubt even that's true.

As I said, 'full freedom' would allow anyone to do what they wanted, whenever they wanted. Do you have any family? How safe would you feel they were in such a 'free' place? Even if you feel fully secure, gun in hand, at some point you or they would need to go out alone. Without any laws to protect them, can you honestly say it would be an improvement?

Because we did have it years ago and not just with guns.

How far back are you talking?
Are you saying that, in your lifetime, Australia had no laws at all? I thought the first laws arrived with the first European settlers, but I'm open to correction.

What about the second part of the question? If you returned to a totally lawless and free state, do you think your family - even when you're not around - would be better off?

 

[Mike375]

We have always had strict gun laws with respect to pistols. But there were no gun laws for rifles or shotguns.

I am 60 and today everything is 100s of times more restrictive than when I was 30.

Actually, I think might related to the size of very big business which is nor far larger than it use to be in relation to the economy.

Compliance rules the day in Australia. If I sell someone insurance the primary concern is to cover my arse againts the regulations. The prospect is irrelevant and he assumes (incorrectly) that the legislation protects him.

It would not suprise me if in 5 years time the local bread shop would need to be set up like a cardiothoracic surgery unit, which will of course suite the two big bakeries and the small bread shop won't be able to comply and will then come under the umbrellas of one of the two big ones.

I think the big push in Australia for gun removal along with a huge drive to produce a pacificist community is because of problems that will come (and are aleady arriving) with the immigration and the generally unpleasant experience of dealing with institutions.

When I was younger I use to be a keeper of reptiles, both snakes and laizards, now you need a license just to have a fucking blue tongue lizard. Amazing.

 

[Alc]

We have always had strict gun laws with respect to pistols. But there were no gun laws for rifles or shotguns.

I am 60 and today everything is 100s of times more restrictive than when I was 30.

So, your original statement about how you prefer total freedom is based on no experience of it? You may wish you had less intervention, but you have no idea what no intervention is like.

I stand by my original comment that partial government intervention makes the most sense.

 

[Fifty2One]

Moral of the story? Guns don't kill people. Knifes don't kill people - people kill people.

And surgeons do not need monkey wrenches... I agree it is not guns that kill people, but people with guns are the only ones that SHOOT people. Perhaps it is time to go for the death penalty instead of releasing criminals because the jails are overfilled...

 

[Mike375]

So, your original statement about how you prefer total freedom is based on no experience of it? You may wish you had less intervention, but you have no idea what no intervention is like.

I stand by my original comment that partial government intervention makes the most sense.

Well I have been close to it as when I was younger I spent a lot of time in Australia's inland and Northern inland and not much gov't intervention there at that time.

 

[KenHigg]

And surgeons do not need monkey wrenches...

Well now.... I'm guessing Rich's doctor could use one

 

[Alc]

Well I have been close to it as when I was younger I spent a lot of time in Australia's inland and Northern inland and not much gov't intervention there at that time.

No doubt. However, were those areas totaly lawless? Could you - or anyone else present - have killed/crippled/maimed/sexually assaulted anyone who took your fancy with absolutely no fear of legal repercussions? If not, it wasn't total freedom to do as you like.

Were they areas in which you would have wanted to raise a family? What if the same rules that applied there and then applied in major Australian cities today?

 

[Brianwarnock]

Well I have been close to it as when I was younger I spent a lot of time in Australia's inland and Northern inland and not much gov't intervention there at that time.

a helluva lot of people there to cause trouble as well.

Brian

 

[KenHigg]

helluva

Queens English?

 

[Mike375]

No doubt. However, were those areas totaly lawless? Could you - or anyone else present - have killed/crippled/maimed/sexually assaulted anyone who took your fancy with absolutely no fear of legal repercussions? If not, it wasn't total freedom to do as you like.

Were they areas in which you would have wanted to raise a family? What if the same rules that applied there and then applied in major Australian cities today?

Well I would prefer the city to be like that. I can tell you that if I did not have to worry about legal repercussions then I would welcome someone attempting to break into my house or steal my car. In fact I would set things up so as to attract them

Surely a time must come when those who support all this gov't intervention must question why:

1) Violence is on a dramatic increase

2) Rip offs are also on the increase at a great rate

As a side note, a few months ago a new neighbour moved in and he is a strong anti gunner, pro poofter and all that shit and it did not take him long to work out where I was So I put a sign in the front of my place....house breaker intoers, best you go next door as they are anti gun, I am not.....He complained to the council so I said he could put up a sign advertising that I am pro gun and heavily armed.

 

[Mike375]

a helluva lot of people there to cause trouble as well.

Brian

And they were the days when the abos were happy, before all profit making do gooders moved in. Work on a property for room and board and go walk about when they felt like it.