Gun laws do they work

[AnthonyGerrard]

That would be Bill Murray and yes I was having a bad day too.... So fits the "Bill" (Pun intended)

I was wrong to post it. My bad.

I took it as humour. Its Bill Murray!

 

[Bladerunner]

Hi Dick7Access: finally found that four barrell pistol. It is a

• Reliant Four-Barrel Pistol
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fRRUaLc67s
  
  Personally I have one that is smaller (308) and has 8 shots instead of four. Of, course this pistol allows you to add different cal. barrells, some of them large calibers.
  
  Blade
  
  
  

 

[Dick7Access]

Hi Dick7Access: finally found that four barrell pistol. It is a

• Reliant Four-Barrel Pistol
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fRRUaLc67s
  
  Personally I have one that is smaller (308) and has 8 shots instead of four. Of, course this pistol allows you to add different cal. barrells, some of them large calibers.
  
  Blade

Thanks for the info. I am going to TX in a couple of weeks and there is a gun shop near where I go I will see if they have one I can look at..
You have probability have see the news item about the pharmacist that shot and killed a would be robber who threaten him and others customers. It is beyond my comprehension how anybody can read that story and still want to take away everbody's gun. Now before anybody gets in a tizzy I am not accusing anybody on this thread of being anti-gun.

 

[Libre]

Now before anybody gets in a tizzy I am not accusing anybody on this thread of being anti-gun.

I am.
It's not that the testosterone fueled warrior of my fantasy image of myself would not feel ...cool, having a gun. I've fired guns at ranges several times and I like the feeling. I like the knowledge that I hold the power to end an argument with one pull on the trigger.
Despite all that, I am vehemently anti-gun.
For every story I hear in the news about a person successfully defending him/herself with a gun, I hear many others - 50X as many at least - of accidents, children killing their siblings, people shooting others in anger, people shooting themselves. Just a few days ago there was a story about a women who, adjusting her "bra-holster", shot herself in the eye and died the next day. And before you tell me that she didn't know what she was doing, you should know that she was an MP and served several tours. Then there are the misguided idiots who give a twelve year old their own rifle and the next thing you know the kid's sister is dead. But it's never the fault of the gun. Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and all that BS. The fact is, private ownership of guns destroys lives. Even people who should know better wind up living the rest of their lives regretfully. Those that think they will use the gun to defend their home against intruders or a government takeover of their neighborhoods just are not thinking rationally. Yes, it could happen. But it's far more likely that the gun will never be used in that way.
Don't get a gun.

 

[Dick7Access]

I am.
It's not that the testosterone fueled warrior of my fantasy image of myself would not feel ...cool, having a gun. I've fired guns at ranges several times and I like the feeling. I like the knowledge that I hold the power to end an argument with one pull on the trigger.
Despite all that, I am vehemently anti-gun.
For every story I hear in the news about a person successfully defending him/herself with a gun, I hear many others - 50X as many at least - of accidents, children killing their siblings, people shooting others in anger, people shooting themselves. Just a few days ago there was a story about a women who, adjusting her "bra-holster", shot herself in the eye and died the next day. And before you tell me that she didn't know what she was doing, you should know that she was an MP and served several tours. Then there are the misguided idiots who give a twelve year old their own rifle and the next thing you know the kid's sister is dead. But it's never the fault of the gun. Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and all that BS. The fact is, private ownership of guns destroys lives. Even people who should know better wind up living the rest of their lives regretfully. Those that think they will use the gun to defend their home against intruders or a government takeover of their neighborhoods just are not thinking rationally. Yes, it could happen. But it's far more likely that the gun will never be used in that way.
Don't get a gun.

I am sorry for the family of the young people that get killed unessarlly for the stupidity of adults. I am sorry for the family of those that die of gun accidents. I believe with all my mind, heart and soul that taking guns away from law-abiding citizens will not change that one bit. In fact make it worst. While it is difficult for me to live with the death of innocence lives as mention above, it would be worst for me to have to live with the memory of seeing innocent lives destroy and I stood there and did nothing. To each there own. Thanks for your comment. Diversity is what makes America great.

 

[Bladerunner]

I am.
It's not that the testosterone fueled warrior of my fantasy image of myself would not feel ...cool, having a gun. I've fired guns at ranges several times and I like the feeling. I like the knowledge that I hold the power to end an argument with one pull on the trigger.
Despite all that, I am vehemently anti-gun.
For every story I hear in the news about a person successfully defending him/herself with a gun, I hear many others - 50X as many at least - of accidents, children killing their siblings, people shooting others in anger, people shooting themselves. Just a few days ago there was a story about a women who, adjusting her "bra-holster", shot herself in the eye and died the next day. And before you tell me that she didn't know what she was doing, you should know that she was an MP and served several tours. Then there are the misguided idiots who give a twelve year old their own rifle and the next thing you know the kid's sister is dead. But it's never the fault of the gun. Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and all that BS. The fact is, private ownership of guns destroys lives. Even people who should know better wind up living the rest of their lives regretfully. Those that think they will use the gun to defend their home against intruders or a government takeover of their neighborhoods just are not thinking rationally. Yes, it could happen. But it's far more likely that the gun will never be used in that way.
Don't get a gun.

Do you have a body guard or live in a gated/ lock door apartment/homes etc?.Do you live in the Bronx, Brooklyn or Queens?. If so, it would appear you have been lucky so far? Yet, you expect someone to put their life on the line for you in the event you have a problem with a bad guy that might have a gun. Why because your taxes pay him to do that or the best way to stop a BAD guy with a gun is to have a GOOD guy with a gun around.

Blade

 

[Libre]

Dick

I believe with all my mind, heart and soul that taking guns away from law-abiding citizens will not change that one bit. In fact make it worst.

Dick-
I appreciate your sincerity - I have no doubt that you believe what you are saying, but if you don't contest the fact that gun accidents are incredibly more likely than their use in legitimate self defense, please explain to me how removing them would make it worse.

Bladerunner

Do you have a body guard or live in a gated/ lock door apartment/homes etc?.Do you live in the Bronx, Brooklyn or Queens?. If so, it would appear you have been lucky so far? Yet, you expect someone to put their life on the line for you in the event you have a problem with a bad guy that might have a gun. Why because your taxes pay him to do that or the best way to stop a BAD guy with a gun is to have a GOOD guy with a gun around.

I hardly have a body guard or live in a gated community. Indeed, I live in an apartment in Queens. Sure I've been lucky. If you live with guns and regularly handle them, then you've been luckier. Yes, I expect trained police officers to stop a BAD guy with a gun - a gun he wouldn't be likely to have if we as a society put an end to the propagation of guns. I pay my taxes as you said, and part of those taxes goes to training and maintaining a police force, a fire department, public schools, etc. If a large scale fire broke out in my building, I would not try to throw a bucket of water on it - I would call the fire department. If there were a criminal running loose, popping off shots outside my building, I would call the police.

I have travelled some, and realize the New York state of mind is not universal. I do realize that in different parts of the country there are different mind-sets regarding this (and many other) issues. I grew up and live in an urban environment, where street crime is not unknown, but it is extremely rare for a citizen to be a victim of a street crime, or to possess a gun. I have known several people to have them, but as I say it is rare.

So you say I'm lucky because - why? Because I've never been the victim of a home invasion? Because you think I'm a sitting duck for such a thing? How about defending yourself against meteor showers or lightning strikes? How about protection against ordinary house fires, H1N1 virus, cardio-vascular disease, a plane or a car crashing into your home, gas explosions, sink holes, or any of a thousand other common things I can come up with that are statistically far more probable than needing a deadly weapon - and not just needing it but having it loaded, primed, and ready at the precise moment that it is needed? Have you done all you can to defend yourself against these common threats? I'm sure you would never ever drink just a wee bit and then drive a few blocks. But do you always fasten your seatbelt? Are your brakes and tire treads exactly up to spec? Do you do everything possible to protect yourself against these - and other - very real dangers?
After you've done all that, then you can tell me that I'm just lucky that I've never been the victim of some gun toting nut (and knock on wood for that).

 

[Dick7Access]

Dick
Dick-
I appreciate your sincerity - I have no doubt that you believe what you are saying, but if you don't contest the fact that gun accidents are incredibly more likely than their use in legitimate self defense, please explain to me how removing them would make it worse.

Bladerunner
I hardly have a body guard or live in a gated community. Indeed, I live in an apartment in Queens. Sure I've been lucky. If you live with guns and regularly handle them, then you've been luckier. Yes, I expect trained police officers to stop a BAD guy with a gun - a gun he wouldn't be likely to have if we as a society put an end to the propagation of guns. I pay my taxes as you said, and part of those taxes goes to training and maintaining a police force, a fire department, public schools, etc. If a large scale fire broke out in my building, I would not try to throw a bucket of water on it - I would call the fire department. If there were a criminal running loose, popping off shots outside my building, I would call the police.

I have travelled some, and realize the New York state of mind is not universal. I do realize that in different parts of the country there are different mind-sets regarding this (and many other) issues. I grew up and live in an urban environment, where street crime is not unknown, but it is extremely rare for a citizen to be a victim of a street crime, or to possess a gun. I have known several people to have them, but as I say it is rare.

So you say I'm lucky because - why? Because I've never been the victim of a home invasion? Because you think I'm a sitting duck for such a thing? How about defending yourself against meteor showers or lightning strikes? How about protection against ordinary house fires, H1N1 virus, cardio-vascular disease, a plane or a car crashing into your home, gas explosions, sink holes, or any of a thousand other common things I can come up with that are statistically far more probable than needing a deadly weapon - and not just needing it but having it loaded, primed, and ready at the precise moment that it is needed? Have you done all you can to defend yourself against these common threats? I'm sure you would never ever drink just a wee bit and then drive a few blocks. But do you always fasten your seatbelt? Are your brakes and tire treads exactly up to spec? Do you do everything possible to protect yourself against these - and other - very real dangers?
After you've done all that, then you can tell me that I'm just lucky that I've never been the victim of some gun toting nut (and knock on wood for that).

If we take guns away from law abiding citizens then the only one with guns will be criminal elements. Gun violence will go up. Right now I have the advantage of counseling with many people coming out of prison. They have all confess that they are more apt to break into house where they know the people don't have guns.

Yes I for number 2 person consider you fortunate, and I am truly glad for you. I have had two homes broken into. One recently here in Florida (around $1000.00 value of items) the other one in Bellingham, MA. (today's value $2000.00. I had my business broken into in Bellingham and stole in today's dollars around $20,000, along with someone trying to sue me for some thing frivolous. My lawyer said they had absolutely no chance of winning, but of course that didn't mean I didn't have to pay him. Put me out of business. Detroit MI, I had a guy going thru my pick up parked 3 feet from my RV in broad day light. Providence, RI a road rage wacko started beating on my window of my auto. I could go on and on.
Yes there are many more dangers in life. Just before this on the radio I heard that a survey said only 66% of people in the US wash there hands after using the bathroom. I am glad I heard it after coming out of the diner and not before going in. We can only do what we can do, or should I say want to do. I know a person who carries around hand sanitizer and use it constantly. I think that I have read that the chances of getting killed or injured in auto accident is far greater than being mugged, but it does mean I will ignore any of the other areas. The chances of a house fire for me are very low as I very seldom have to use heat here in FL and I only cook when it's an actual emergency. <G>, but that doesn't mean I don't have a smoke alarm. Also you need to remember us gun nuts are usually very very protective of our individual freedom.

 

[Libre]

Dick - I only have a moment to answer right now - but I will say, while you do have a right to protect yourself and your property, in some of the incidents you mentioned (theft of $1000, theft of $2000, a frivolous law suit, maybe some others) if you were to introduce a gun into the incident, the outcome would/could have been far far worse. Would you want to protect $1000 by shooting the thief - and then have to answer the charge of murder? A lawyer would laugh at $1000 - you'd have to come up with at least $50,000 I'm guessing, to even get him started. Speaking of lawyers and Florida, my sis-in-law's nephew had just graduated law school, and was celebrating with his friend in a bar, they got into a drunken argument, and the nephew shot the friend - not killing him but injuring him critically. Next day he couldn't even remember what the spat was about. Now he's in prison for a long time, and will likely NEVER practice law. Oh well, just another case of a hot-headed gun bearer, standing up for himself. One of countless thousands. If he didn't have a gun this would never have happened.

 

[Dick7Access]

Dick - I only have a moment to answer right now - but I will say, while you do have a right to protect yourself .

You are very right about arguing, booze, and guns. Any mix of the two is bad news.

The lawyer wasn't thief related. It was the guy threatening to sue me for everything I had. That was the start of me becoming a conservative. Here is a guy trying to get rich on what I worked hard for. Up until that time I was more interested in Wine, woman, and song.

 

[Frothingslosh]

You are very right about arguing, booze, and guns. Any mix of the two is bad news.

The lawyer wasn't thief related. It was the guy threatening to sue me for everything I had. That was the start of me becoming a conservative. Here is a guy trying to get rich on what I worked hard for. Up until that time I was more interested in Wine, woman, and song.

Strange how things can affect us.

I've been mugged, burglarized, robbed at gunpoint at work, shot at once, and threatened with a couple lawsuits, and it never changed my stance. Instead of thinking 'freaking liberals', I was thinking 'assholes', because I've known members of that breed on both sides of the political aisle.

My own political shift (away from card-carrying Republican, believe it or not) came in late 2001 through early 2003, watching the American President change justification for attacking Iraq time after time after time, watching the immediate outcry of "if you don't agree with us 100% you're a traitor", and mostly from watching some of our freedoms vanish to the USA Patriot Act. In those same thirteen years, I've become much more aware of how much more difficult many have had it than even I have (and I've been homeless twice during my life), and developed a sense of responsibility (both individually and as a belief in the responsibility of government) to help those who need it that is currently pigeonholed as a 'liberal' political stance.

More on topic, however:

I'm still somewhere around the center on gun control, however - I still maintain that guns should not be taken away en masse, but there need to be certain, logical restrictions - no guns for felons and the mentally ill, background check requirements for ALL purchases, waiting periods, etc. I have no issue with guns requiring registration, myself, as I see no intent on the part of the government to take everyone's guns, but I can see where the more paranoid gun nuts wouldn't like it. And I do like the idea of biometric sensors built into pistol grips, so that if you're not the person whose data is saved on the chip, it won't fire. (That last one I like for civilians, I can see arguments on both sides for applying it to cops(!), and it almost certainly should not be on military firearms for obvious reasons.)

 

[Bladerunner]

Dick
Dick-
I appreciate your sincerity - I have no doubt that you believe what you are saying, but if you don't contest the fact that gun accidents are incredibly more likely than their use in legitimate self defense, please explain to me how removing them would make it worse.

Bladerunner
I hardly have a body guard or live in a gated community. Indeed, I live in an apartment in Queens. Sure I've been lucky. If you live with guns and regularly handle them, then you've been luckier. Yes, I expect trained police officers to stop a BAD guy with a gun - a gun he wouldn't be likely to have if we as a society put an end to the propagation of guns. I pay my taxes as you said, and part of those taxes goes to training and maintaining a police force, a fire department, public schools, etc. If a large scale fire broke out in my building, I would not try to throw a bucket of water on it - I would call the fire department. If there were a criminal running loose, popping off shots outside my building, I would call the police.

I have travelled some, and realize the New York state of mind is not universal. I do realize that in different parts of the country there are different mind-sets regarding this (and many other) issues. I grew up and live in an urban environment, where street crime is not unknown, but it is extremely rare for a citizen to be a victim of a street crime, or to possess a gun. I have known several people to have them, but as I say it is rare.

So you say I'm lucky because - why? Because I've never been the victim of a home invasion? Because you think I'm a sitting duck for such a thing? How about defending yourself against meteor showers or lightning strikes? How about protection against ordinary house fires, H1N1 virus, cardio-vascular disease, a plane or a car crashing into your home, gas explosions, sink holes, or any of a thousand other common things I can come up with that are statistically far more probable than needing a deadly weapon - and not just needing it but having it loaded, primed, and ready at the precise moment that it is needed? Have you done all you can to defend yourself against these common threats? I'm sure you would never ever drink just a wee bit and then drive a few blocks. But do you always fasten your seatbelt? Are your brakes and tire treads exactly up to spec? Do you do everything possible to protect yourself against these - and other - very real dangers?
After you've done all that, then you can tell me that I'm just lucky that I've never been the victim of some gun toting nut (and knock on wood for that).

thank you Libre for your honesty. The one thing all anti-gun people like yourself do not say is How to get rid of all the illegal guns once all of the law abiding citizen's guns are register or taken away. Could you answer that please?. How would it be accomplished that all hand guns in the hands of the bad guys be abolished? Especially since a lot of the handguns military (AK47) are coming from outside the country. Hell this country cannot even shut down its border to keep illegals out and you think they can do this? Well, When you do that, I will relinquish mine, Until then!

Hope you have a great day...suppose to snow here again tonight. Will get to you about Friday.

Blade

 

[Libre]

True, it would be very difficult to remove all the illegal guns, especially at first. But if guns were highly illegal, their prevalence would diminish over time. They would never disappear completely. Hardened criminals would still have their guns, and cops and the military would still have theirs too. But the average Joe would not have one, and I don't think it's the average Joe that the hardened criminal goes after.
Racial prejudice is hard to get rid of too, but we don't just throw our hands up and say, "f**k it", we pass laws against it. Doesn't mean it goes away.
To be honest, I'm not really sure that illegalizing ALL private gun ownership is right - but for my money, guns cause far more problems then they solve therefore, fewer guns = fewer problems.

 

[Dick7Access]

True, it would be very difficult to remove all the illegal guns, especially at first. But if guns were highly illegal, their prevalence would diminish over time. They would never disappear completely. Hardened criminals would still have their guns, and cops and the military would still have theirs too. But the average Joe would not have one, and I don't think it's the average Joe that the hardened criminal goes after.
Racial prejudice is hard to get rid of too, but we don't just throw our hands up and say, "f**k it", we pass laws against it. Doesn't mean it goes away.
To be honest, I'm not really sure that illegalizing ALL private gun ownership is right - but for my money, guns cause far more problems then they solve therefore, fewer guns = fewer problems.

I see that blade and I are the same page not only on guns but on ROSES too. I too appreciate your honestly. (Sorry, I just couldn't help the Pun.) You are not my enemy. It's truly amazing how people can see things so differently. All I see is the thugs going after the average Joe. In drug stores, and convenience stores, gas stations etc. Drug laws are highly illegal, it doesn't take much drugs of the streets.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Drug laws are highly illegal, it doesn't take much drugs of the streets

Drugs are also insanely profitable - so much so that evidence has been found that some drug cartels actually have lobbyists (working through front companies, of course) working to keep them illegal so that the price stays high.

If guns had the same rate of consumption and profitability that drugs have, you'd have people on every street corner selling crates of guns out of their trunks.

 

[Bladerunner]

Drugs are also insanely profitable - so much so that evidence has been found that some drug cartels actually have lobbyists (working through front companies, of course) working to keep them illegal so that the price stays high.

If guns had the same rate of consumption and profitability that drugs have, you'd have people on every street corner selling crates of guns out of their trunks.

But it is not the drug dealer that causes the problems (maybe only at the root).Here in TN we have a major problem with Meth. This drug can be had for a very little but that very little is what causes the problems. You can lose your life over $10. They are looking to steal anything that can make a buck in order to pay the drug dealer. The problem is not going away nor is it getting any smaller. Have worked with the local law and believe me it is getting worse. These are the people you have to worry about because they will cut your throat in a heartbeat.

Since the election of our liberal president, hand gun sales have skyrocketed. People like me see hard times coming and want to be prepared. Buying a handgun, getting a permit and learning how to use it is at the top of the list.

Guns are not going away in the USA. In fact, TN just passed legislation doing away with the need for a permit to carry a handgun. So have several other states. Don't think it has become a law yet?

Blade

 

[Dick7Access]

Drugs are also insanely profitable - so much so that evidence has been found that some drug cartels actually have lobbyists (working through front companies, of course) working to keep them illegal so that the price stays high.

If guns had the same rate of consumption and profitability that drugs have, you'd have people on every street corner selling crates of guns out of their trunks.

I don't know about Michigan, but here in FL the more the government pushes for gun laws the more the trunks are filled with guns. It took me six or seven mounts to get my CWP. I personally believe the report that the department gave me that they were just overloaded with application. Many people I talk to are not buying it. Lots of people are not putting up with that. Just buying from black marfket.

 

[Frothingslosh]

I don't know about Michigan, but here in FL the more the government pushes for gun laws the more the trunks are filled with guns. It took me six or seven mounts to get my CWP. I personally believe the report that the department gave me that they were just overloaded with application. Many people I talk to are not buying it. Lots of people are not putting up with that. Just buying from black marfket.

Oh, I can believe they were overloaded. Government bureaucracy is the slowest-moving thing known to modern man.

Also:

It took me six or seven mounts to get my CWP.

You had to take horses to get your permit? NEAT!

 

[Bladerunner]

have a series of pics for all you gun lovers, one day at a time.


Blade

 

[Dick7Access]

Also:

Oh, I can believe they were overloaded.  Government bureaucracy is the slowest-moving thing known to modern man.

I was trying to be nice

 You had to take horses to get your permit?  NEAT!  ;)

Your assuming they were horses. They were 2 camels, and the rest donkeys.