Has NASA found (potentially) extraterrestrial life? (1 Viewer)

[ChipperT]

Since Mike is in Oz

Does one of the stats bascially say Americans are more stupid than the average?
As tempting as that is to believe, I think the truth is somewhat more complicated.

Anti-American jibes here get tiresome.

 

[dan-cat]

Awwwww, somebody's getting smited

Just don't stand too close to me when the lightning hits you.

Not to worry, all that's done away with, with the New Testament. We have to wait for the afterlife for our comeuppance.

At least the Iranians take the moral responsibility for their barbarism when they stone people to death and don't pass it on to some ethereal aspect to do the dirty work for them. Now I'm sounding bitter...best stop.

 

[Pauldohert]

Anti-American jibes here get tiresome.

So do anti theist ones based upon the same data?

 

[Galaxiom]

... if the Bible was all fairy tales one would expect a counter Bible to have a come along for the ride.

Something like the the Quran perhaps? Or the Torah.

Maybe even the Book of Mormon with the Israelites finding their Promised Land in Utah all revealed by a golden plate translated courtesy of a special rock hidden in a hat?

Then there is Ron L Hubbard and our alien God-being origins manifested as humanity via a volcanic eruption after removing part of our DNA.

Or the hundreds of thousands of Hindu Gods?

Norse gods, Greek gods, Inca gods.

Then we have the like of Ghengis Kahn, Napoleon and countless others who saw themslelves as Gods on Earth.

Jimmy Jones, David Koresh and Jessa O'My Heart.

History is littered with dozens of ridicuous delusional figures from Abraham (AKA Abram, Ibrahim or whatever variant is applied by your cult of choice) each claiming to either be manifestations of or having special connection to all knowing deities. The concept shared by all is one of setting themselves beyond any possibility of objective analysis.

Here revealed is the central flaw in religious philosophy. Once a belief reaches the status of a faith it becomes an impediment to enlightenment in any sense.

Or do you mean an anti-Bible? Until relatively recently publishing anything that disagreed with the Bible was punishable by death. To this day criticism of its Islamic analog is a certain path to a death sentence in many parts of the world.

Either way your defence of the lack of a counter-document is utterly baseless.

 

[Mike375]

Something like the the Quran perhaps? Or the Torah.

They along with the Bible are Abrahamic religions.

You headline choice only confirmed what I was saying.

 

[Galaxiom]

You headline choice only confirmed what I was saying.

Hardly surprising as a response from someone who chooses to accept the musings of stone age goat herders as being beyond question.

It is quite incredible what some will accept as confirmation of their delusions.

 

[Mike375]

Hardly surprising as a response from someone who chooses to accept the musings of stone age goat herders as being beyond question.

It is quite incredible what some will accept as confirmation of their delusions.

Point to one post I made that would support that. What I have said is I think the basic story is correct....read what I posted.

You came up with no Bible counter, at least of similar standing and in fact jumped straight into the other two Abrahamic religions as your "Bible counter" Almost like you are believer in disguise.

 

[ChipperT]

They along with the Bible are Abrahamic religions.

You headline choice only confirmed what I was saying.

Then try the Ahura Vesta, The Analects, THe Vedas, Bahgavad Ghita, the Tao Te Ching. All are "Holy Books", many predating biblical scriptures and none are Abrahamic. There are more as well. None are "Anti-Biblical", all are just as devoutly regarded as the Bible.

Which one(s) are right? wrong? none of the above?

 

[Mike375]

Then try the Ahura Vesta, The Analects, THe Vedas, Bahgavad Ghita, the Tao Te Ching. All are "Holy Books", many predating biblical scriptures and none are Abrahamic. There are more as well. None are "Anti-Biblical", all are just as devoutly regarded as the Bible.

Which one(s) are right? wrong? none of the above?

The Way that can be told of is not an unvarying way;The names that can be named are not unvarying names.It was from the Nameless that Heaven and Earth sprang;The named is but the mother that rears the ten thousand creatures, each after its kind

 

[Adam Caramon]

Here's what I don't get, Christ did that, though the opposite direction, he cured the sick, declared he was God, rose from the dead and then went up into the clouds.... You don't believe Him, so why would you believe it the other way around (And all this was witnessed by many people).

Honestly, its because I don't believe that actually happened. Essentially, you're told not to question the bible, so you accept what is in it really happened. I've looked at a lot of people's research into the bible and how it could not possibly be accurate.

I seem to remember reading just recently about a priest who was on TV. He was asked if Jesus' resurrection was accurate or more of an analogy. He said that people felt the presence of Jesus after he had been killed, so they described it as him coming back to life. But he never physically came back to life.

And, I get what you're saying as well. You're saying that I wouldn't accept it unless I experienced it first hand. But that's not true; I accept a lot of things that I have never experienced first hand. I accept that the world is not flat, even though I have only been in a relatively small part of the world. I accept that there are astroids floating around in space, even though I have never seen them myself.

These things are put forward as theories, and then hotly debated. Eventually something becomes the accepted answer because no one can prove it wrong. I think that is a good process, and I accept the information that comes forth from it (for the most part).

But..... given time, you might get to see Him descend from the clouds in His second coming....

You may not have intended it so, but that statement comes of as fearmongering. That has often been a tactic of religions: Believe what I tell you to believe or terrible things will happen. It rings hollow to me.

There are a ton of religions out there, each has their own little factoids and special things that people are supposed to practice. You've mentioned in an earlier thread that you believe all other religions are wrong and your's is correct. So you obviously do not fear anything these other religions warn you of. Its the same for me.

Lastly, if the Bible was all fairy tales one would expect a counter Bible to have a come along for the ride.

That's an interesting theory. Do you mean a document that details all the ways that the bible is inaccurate? Or a different bible, or what?

When I read counter-bible, the first thing I thought of was:



It was written by a religious guy who saw the worst of people on the weekend and the best of them on Sundays. He grew sick and tired of the religion and so he started his own. Pretty interesting read until he starts talking about how to cast spells .

 

[ChipperT]

I have come to believe that most "modern" religions, especially Abrahamic ones, are simply a case of the downtrodden and oppressed, bereft of the ability to better their poor miserable existence, had to cling to the fact that they would triumph in the end and that those who maltreated them would finally get their comeuppance. Not in this world, of course, but the next. It made their lot more bearable.

As (I think it was Stalin) said, religion is the opiate of the people.

 

[Adam Caramon]

I have come to believe that most "modern" religions, especially Abrahamic ones, are simply a case of the downtrodden and oppressed, bereft of the ability to better their poor miserable existence, had to cling to the fact that they would triumph in the end and that those who maltreated them would finally get their comeuppance. Not in this world, of course, but the next. It made their lot more bearable.

I would agree. A sense of hope.

As (I think it was Stalin) said, religion is the opiate of the people.

Actually, that was Marx.

 

[Kryst51]

Honestly, its because I don't believe that actually happened. Essentially, you're told not to question the bible, so you accept what is in it really happened. I've looked at a lot of people's research into the bible and how it could not possibly be accurate.

I seem to remember reading just recently about a priest who was on TV. He was asked if Jesus' resurrection was accurate or more of an analogy. He said that people felt the presence of Jesus after he had been killed, so they described it as him coming back to life. But he never physically came back to life.

And, I get what you're saying as well. You're saying that I wouldn't accept it unless I experienced it first hand. But that's not true; I accept a lot of things that I have never experienced first hand. I accept that the world is not flat, even though I have only been in a relatively small part of the world. I accept that there are astroids floating around in space, even though I have never seen them myself.

These things are put forward as theories, and then hotly debated. Eventually something becomes the accepted answer because no one can prove it wrong. I think that is a good process, and I accept the information that comes forth from it (for the most part).

OK.

You may not have intended it so, but that statement comes of as fearmongering. That has often been a tactic of religions: Believe what I tell you to believe or terrible things will happen. It rings hollow to me.

There are a ton of religions out there, each has their own little factoids and special things that people are supposed to practice. You've mentioned in an earlier thread that you believe all other religions are wrong and your's is correct. So you obviously do not fear anything these other religions warn you of. Its the same for me.

Hmmm, fearmongering.... obviously not what I meant. But, the premise of Christianity is what it is, so you can interpret it any way you want. I will find joy when that event happens, you may not. If you don't believe it will happen, well then you have nothing to worry about and you're OK.

 

[Mike375]

Adam,

Using diet as an example there is the low carbohydrate and high carbohydrate.

The Atkins Diet
The Pritikin Diet

So we have one diet promoting meat as the main part of the diet and the other is avoiding meat and other animal based foods

I just picked those two as they kicked off in earlier days. The follower of each is completely aware of the other.

 

[ChipperT]

OK.

Hmmm, fearmongering.... obviously not what I meant. But, the premise of Christianity is what it is, so you can interpret it any way you want. I will find joy when that event happens, you may not. If you don't believe it will happen, well then you have nothing to worry about and you're OK.

While growing up my mother was a devout Baptist and reminded us almost daily that the "signs and portents" pointed to Christ's imminent return. The preacher from the pulpit preached hellfire and damnation and of course that "God is love", seeing no contradiction at all in a deity who was so egotistical that if you did not worship him and praise his name, you were doomed to infinite torture. Of course, a central theme of the preacher as well was that we should look to the sky for the immediate return of Christ with fear and trembling. We will ignore the fact for the moment that these "signs and potents" of the "final days" have always been with us.

But virtually every elderly Christian that I have known, including my mother who is facing her mortality in a very real way at the age of 87 (with severe COPD), when the last years of their lives were upon them were increasingly axnious about death and expressed a great desire to remain here in this life. So tell me, if the afterlife is so great, why would not a true Christian eagerly approach their death with joy? Indeed, why would they take any measure at all to extend what is obviously a lesser existence here in the "pre-afterlife"?

 

[Mike375]

So tell me, if the afterlife is so great, why would not a true Christian eagerly approach their death with joy? Indeed, why would they take any measure at all to extend what is obviously a lesser existence here in the "pre-afterlife"?

That is the same question I have asked a few born again Christians. Asked in a slightly different way such as...if you wife was in hospital with a serious problem why would you pray for her survival etc....

 

[Adam Caramon]

I just picked those two as they kicked off in earlier days. The follower of each is completely aware of the other.

That makes sense. The image I linked is pretty close then. It essentially preaches that you are your own god. You're responsible for yourself. If you want to go out and sleep with a ton of women, that's your choice, and there should be no shame or guilt associated with it (or a woman with men). And if you choose not to at all, that is completely ok as well, as long as you recognize that it is your choice and does not make you better than others who choose differently.

It is much more selfish and self-serving, which is anti-Christianity in some ways.

Indeed, why would they take any measure at all to extend what is obviously a lesser existence here in the "pre-afterlife"?

I always wondered the same thing. I actually knew of one family who celebrated when their young son died. They had a party instead of a funeral; their being so happy that their son was now in heaven. This was like 40+ years ago when this happened, but even then everyone thought they were looney tunes.

In my experience with religious people, most are good people. They want to believe so badly, but deep down they know that most of the stuff is illogical. But they want to believe so badly that they will one day be reunited with their loved ones, and live eternally in an afterlife, that they keep on hoping.

That little sliver of hope is important to them, and if it helps them be a better person here on Earth, I don't think it is hurting anyone. For them, religion is useful. As it is for the people who would otherwise be criminals except that they fear the wrath of god. It is useful to control them.

The people who try to force others to believe how they do, or condemn others for not following their religion are the ones that need to be tossed into the crazy houses.

 

[Kryst51]

While growing up my mother was a devout Baptist and reminded us almost daily that the "signs and portents" pointed to Christ's imminent return. The preacher from the pulpit preached hellfire and damnation and of course that "God is love", seeing no contradiction at all in a deity who was so egotistical that if you did not worship him and praise his name, you were doomed to infinite torture. Of course, a central theme of the preacher as well was that we should look to the sky for the immediate return of Christ with fear and trembling. We will ignore the fact for the moment that these "signs and potents" of the "final days" have always been with us.

But virtually every elderly Christian that I have known, including my mother who is facing her mortality in a very real way at the age of 87 (with severe COPD), when the last years of their lives were upon them were increasingly axnious about death and expressed a great desire to remain here in this life. So tell me, if the afterlife is so great, why would not a true Christian eagerly approach their death with joy? Indeed, why would they take any measure at all to extend what is obviously a lesser existence here in the "pre-afterlife"?

Well, I don't exactly know the answer for sure, but I can guess.... I sure don't want to die, but know that I will. Just my opinion, but I can surmise that it is because we are human. Simple as that, we were created here, and though we know what awaits us, it is hard for our minds to grasp so our fears linger. I think the thing that marks us as Christians is not that we do not fear death, but that we have courage and strength to overcome our fear in the knowledge of what awaits us. And for the Christian there is the added bonus of being able to overcome because God gives us strength.

As far as wanting to extend life, the same reason. But in addition to that as Paul said that the longer we are here on earth we are able to tell more people about Christ in the hopes that more people will turn to Him and be spared (Please don't retort "You're fearmongering" this is what Christianity is) Something like "to die is Christ but to live is gain", what do we gain? Glory for God, Mercy and salvation for others. My grandparents, both devout Christians, are getting up and years and suffer through many illnesses and through much pain, and they too doubt and fear death. They still love God and seek to serve Him, and openly talk to God and to me about their fears and doubts. Sometimes they get angry with God or are confused by the things He allows, especially when my cousin's son was killed a month or two ago (he was only 18). The reality of Heaven or Hell or the eternal life promised by God doesn't change however, and they don't lose their salvation by doubting or by having fear, God knows our pain, fear and doubts. But He is greater than those things.

 

[ChipperT]

Glory for God

But don't you think it even a little bit queer that this almighty deity created mankind just to glorify himself and to be able to have an eternity with billions of his created beings gathered around praising him? And if I (or you) don't think it is really a heavenly idea to spend an enternity praising this deity then he gets miffed and sends you to an eternity of torture? And why would I (or you) even want to spend an infinity "praising His holy name:? Seems a bit childish for such an almighty being, doesn't it?

 

[Kryst51]

But don't you think it even a little bit queer that this almighty deity created mankind just to glorify himself and to be able to have an eternity with billions of his created beings gathered around praising him? And if I (or you) don't think it is really a heavenly idea to spend an enternity praising this deity then he gets miffed and sends you to an eternity of torture? And why would I (or you) even want to spend an infinity "praising His holy name:? Seems a bit childish for such an almighty being, doesn't it?

I want to praise God because I love Him...... You, as a former Christian, surely know how I would answer these questions, I am sure my answer is no different from any other Christian.