Has NASA found (potentially) extraterrestrial life?

Mike chastised us for what he perceives as confusing a belief in the existence of a deity with the accptance of Jesus and Mohammed .

Not correct. What I have said is debating whether there is a supernatural or supernaturals does not hinge on whether Jesus or whichever church etc is false. With the exception of the "born agains" think most people who are religious to some degree accept and would even advocate that churches and their teachings are man made.

The majority of atheists I have met believe Jesus existed but of course do not believe Jesus was anymore than a man.
 
But for a lot of people that experience it, telepathy (or whatever you want to call it) will be seen as a manifestation that there is "something out there" and so it does have a connection with atheism/theism.

One may personally choose to connect telepathy to theist philosophy but that does not make it a theistic phenomenon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

Theism
, in the broadest sense, is the belief that at least one deity exists.[1][2] In a more specific sense, theism refers to a doctrine concerning the nature of a monotheistic God and God's relationship to the universe.[3]

Throughout history, theists have connected concepts of a deity to vast numbers of diverse phenomena. However as science progressed they have been forced to relinquish these connections in favour of rational explanations based on physical reality.

Ignoring the debate on wheteher it is likely to exist or not, if telepathy is shown to be true then I have no doubt that a rational explanation would eventually be found that was based on new extensions to physical and biological processes.

There is no need for a deity.
 
One may personally choose to connect telepathy to theist philosophy but that does not make it a theistic phenomenon.

Agree.

I think one of the reasons and maybe the main reason for the connection is the result of telepathy so often coming in the form of a helping hand at just the right time.
.

Ignoring the debate on wheteher it is likely to exist or not, if telepathy is shown to be true then I have no doubt that a rational explanation would eventually be found that was based on new extensions to physical and biological processes.

There is no need for a deity.

I vary a great deal on this, just depends on the day:D

My gut feeling is there is something above us but it is not the all powerful and all knowing etc. But as I said I vary with this from time to time.

But what I know for sure as in 100% is there can be something I am doing or thinking about right now that will cause another person to do something and of course the reverse applies.
 
The majority of atheists I have met believe Jesus existed but of course do not believe Jesus was anymore than a man.

Yeah, its totally different here in the USA. There's basically three groups of religious people here.

1.) Wackos. These are usually people 60+, or people in religious cults, etc. They are very extreme in their beliefs, and don't care what anyone else thinks. Their minds are made up and they won't have it any other way.

2.) Average religious person. The largest group, these people you would probably never know were religious unless you directly asked them. They might wear a cross from time to time, but they don't preach about it. Most of these people are religious because their parents raised them that way, but they don't really know their religion in-depth. They know some of the religious rites/customs of their branch, but may not know the purpose of them.

3.) CEO Christians. AKA: "Christmas and Easter Only". They only go to church on Christmas and Easter. They don't believe in the bible as being anything more than fables intended to teach values, and usually are younger (I'd guess 35 and younger).

I've met many people that fall into these groups. I work with a few 2's, have several friends that are 3's, and avoid the 1's at all costs :p.

But what I know for sure as in 100% is there can be something I am doing or thinking about right now that will cause another person to do something and of course the reverse applies.

I like to call those "coincidences".

I think that there are some things that at times may appear to be extra-sensory or magical, but the human brain is a powerful thing. We don't even know everything it is capable of yet.

I remember when my Grandmother was really sick. I had a dream one day about her and the number 3 was very prominent. I told my mother about it, and I said she was going to die in 3 days. Told most of my family about it. Sure enough, she died 3 days later.

Does it mean anything? Nothing other than a strange thing that happened.
 
Yeah, its totally different here in the USA. There's basically three groups of religious people here.

1.) Wackos. These are usually people 60+, or people in religious cults, etc. They are very extreme in their beliefs, and don't care what anyone else thinks. Their minds are made up and they won't have it any other way.

2.) Average religious person. The largest group, these people you would probably never know were religious unless you directly asked them. They might wear a cross from time to time, but they don't preach about it. Most of these people are religious because their parents raised them that way, but they don't really know their religion in-depth. They know some of the religious rites/customs of their branch, but may not know the purpose of them.

3.) CEO Christians. AKA: "Christmas and Easter Only". They only go to church on Christmas and Easter. They don't believe in the bible as being anything more than fables intended to teach values, and usually are younger (I'd guess 35 and younger).

Same in Australia.

I like to call those "coincidences".

No way for me and many others

But for you the frequency is so small that I would agree it is coincidence for you.
 
1.) Wackos. These are usually people 60+, or people in religious cults, etc. They are very extreme in their beliefs, and don't care what anyone else thinks. Their minds are made up and they won't have it any other way.

Adam,

Just as a side note, that profile is also given to atheists, except age group is different.

But no surprise as both extemes have enormous faith.
 
Just as a side note, that profile is also given to atheists, except age group is different.

That profile is only given to atheists by hardline Christians. The difference between the two groups is that atheists pride themselves on logic & science. They don't disbelieve on faith. If there was actual, factual evidence that a particular religion was correct, atheists would embrace it.

Not so for extreme religious people. They are taught that there is this all-powerful deity that controls all aspects of life. Any evidence that could be shown to them could be a test by said deity. They are instructed to blindly follow. There is even a story in their religious text where their all-powerful deity requests of one of his followers to sacrifice his own son to show his devotion. Blind acceptance above all else is the way of the religion.

But no surprise as both extemes have enormous faith.

Only when you play with semantics. Find me one atheist, non-believer, agnostic, whatever that will say that if he is shown actual, factual proof, that he will still reject that a religion is correct. If you find one, then I'll believe that there is some secret sect out there of atheists that are blindly devoted to non-belief.

Good luck with that.
 
Only when you play with semantics. Find me one atheist, non-believer, agnostic, whatever that will say that if he is shown actual, factual proof, that he will still reject that a religion is correct. If you find one, then I'll believe that there is some secret sect out there of atheists that are blindly devoted to non-belief.

Good luck with that.

Agnostic is as far removed from an atheist as he/she is from a "born again"
 
Agnostic is as far removed from an atheist as he/she is from a "born again"

I don't think so.

Atheist = There is no god
Agnostic = I don't know/don't care
Believer = There is a god
Extremist = There is a god, the god I worship, everyone else is wrong and should be made to believe the way I believe.

I would think agnostics are more comfortable around nonbelievers than believers. Believers are always trying to convert them and tell them how to live their lives. Us nonbelievers are just glad for their company :)
 
I don't think so.

Atheist = There is no god
Agnostic = I don't know/don't care
Believer = There is a god
Extremist = There is a god, the god I worship, everyone else is wrong and should be made to believe the way I believe.

I would think agnostics are more comfortable around nonbelievers than believers. Believers are always trying to convert them and tell them how to live their lives. Us nonbelievers are just glad for their company :)

As usual - the only banging on around here is atheist.
 
1) Atheist = There is no god


2) Agnostic = I don't know/don't care


3) Believer = There is a god

Position 1 and 3 are faith based and position 2 lacks the faith to take a firm position.

Adam, what sicence knowedge/proof do you have that puts you in position 1. I assume you have proof:D Of course you don't and so your position is the same in principle as number 3.
 
Extremist = There is a god, the god I worship, everyone else is wrong and should be made to believe the way I believe.

I haven't been paying much attention to this thread over the weekend, but wanted to pose a question to you. You call this kind of person an extremist, but let me ask you this...... If a person REALLY believes in their God (And I am not just talking Christians, but anybody) why wouldn't they think theirs was the only one that was right..... If they give in and say someone else could be right, then they must not really believe in their God, and all their faith (whichever one it is) is for nothing. So why is this kind of person an extremist? I would view an extremist who is one who interprets his/her religion (or commitment to it) as authorizing extremist actions like violence or some such, so much so that it goes against even the mainstream of that paricular religion/faith.
 
Position 1 and 3 are faith based and position 2 lacks the faith to take a firm position.

That's where we get back to semantics. You're using the term "faith" to apply to non-religious concepts. You might say "I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow." And while you can say that, it isn't the same thing as saying "I have faith that a god exists".

For the first, this is something that happens everyday. It is based upon the scientific method, observance, etc. It is therefore, not "faith".

So no, position 1 does not require faith. I don't believe in leprechauns. But that doesn't mean I have faith that leprechauns do not exist. If you use the terms in that way, they essentially lose their meaning.

Adam, what sicence knowedge/proof do you have that puts you in position 1. I assume you have proof:D Of course you don't and so your position is the same in principle as number 3.

Ah, the old disprove a negative. Again, when you misuse terms, it makes your whole argument fall apart.

If I don't have proof of something/evidence/etc of something, I don't accept it. Since it is impossible to disprove a negative, your way of thinking would mean I'd have to attribute equal amounts of plausibility to any concept that cannot be disproven.

Example: I am god. Can you prove that I am not? Of course not. Do you believe me? Probably not. But under your way of thinking, since you can't prove it, its falls to "faith". False conclusion.

Kryst51 said:
So why is this kind of person an extremist? I would view an extremist who is one who interprets his/her religion (or commitment to it) as authorizing extremist actions like violence or some such, so much so that it goes against even the mainstream of that paricular religion/faith.

I would probably call that kind of person a radical. I don't know any radicals in my personal life.

An extremist to me is someone who tries to put their views on other people, but not in a violent way. One example would be "Values Voters". If a candidate says they support a woman's right to choose, this person would automatically not vote for them, regardless of what else they stood for.

Another example would be those Westboro people. From what I know of them, they don't physically hurt anyone, but they perform extremist actions (picketing soldier's funerals, for example).

Again, the average everyday religious person is religious because they want to be. They don't try to push their religious views on others. An extremist does, which is what differentiates them from an average religious person in my mind.
 
Agree.

I think one of the reasons and maybe the main reason for the connection is the result of telepathy so often coming in the form of a helping hand at just the right time.
As usual you seem to use words in a different sense to the rest of us. I have always understood telepathy to be communcation between 1 mind and another at a distance other than through known senses. This definition is confirmed by The Oxford English Dictionary. No mention of helping hands at just the right time.

If Telepathy exists then I am sure it will be through some mechanism analogous to radio waves and not to some supernatural switchboard operator
 
If Telepathy exists then I am sure it will be through some mechanism analogous to radio waves and not to some supernatural switchboard operator
Telepathy does exist. Ask any kid who is about to do something their parents won't approve of.
 
As usual you seem to use words in a different sense to the rest of us. I have always understood telepathy to be communcation between 1 mind and another at a distance other than through known senses. This definition is confirmed by The Oxford English Dictionary. No mention of helping hands at just the right time.

I did say earlier "telepathy or whatever"

The "helping hand" is coming as a result of the communication.

I don't think telepathy is limited to 1 mind and another.
 
Adam,

It is really very simple.

You don't believe a god or gods or supernaturals exist. And because you can't prove it that confirms "your opinion" is a belief and for you (like the fundamentalist) that belief transfers to a statement of fact.
 
I don't believe that elves, fairies, or Father Christmas exist, but hey I can't prove it so I guess I have a belief (faith) after all.

Brian
 
You don't believe a god or gods or supernaturals exist. And because you can't prove it that confirms "your opinion" is a belief and for you (like the fundamentalist) that belief transfers to a statement of fact.

Let me ask you this. Would you prefer to have a doctor that believed he could perform surgery upon you based on his faith in his religion (whatever that happens to be), or one who had earned a medical degree from a reputable medical school?

My opinion is that since I don't have anything with which to base the 1st doctor's skills off of, the second would be more likely to perform a successful surgery.

My guess is that you'll scoff at this example as being ridiculous. However, maybe you'll see the comparison. 1 thing is based completely on faith, another is based on facts. That's why I, as a nonbeliever, would be more willing to trust the 2nd doctor.

And I'd be willing to bet the fundamentalist would prefer the second doctor as well.

Brianwarnock said:
I don't believe that elves, fairies, or Father Christmas exist, but hey I can't prove it so I guess I have a belief (faith) after all.

That seemed to me the argument he was raising as well. Glad it wasn't just me. I think I'm starting to see what that one guy meant when he said:

IrrevBlack said:
I think your username on our forums may have been MikeM. A user by that name was expelled for circular reasoning, unsupportable claims...
 

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