Helpful Language Comparisons (maybe)

[Cotswold]

I came across this the other day from another Forum. It is written by Eric Lendvai and I thought some may find it interesting?
Eric clearly has little, if any experience of Access, as it isn't mentioned. But you will be able to add your own pros & cons on Access anyway.
I have posted it because when you search for language comparisons, the results are only adverts. The days of using Google to obtain commercially unrelated opinions are long gone. It has been adverts, or nothing for maybe ten years now.

 

[Isaac]

Emphasis on "Maybe" ::
It lists VB.NET as a "case sensitive language".

Now I was very happy to read that for Python, as I hate that about Python.

but vb.net? Where are they getting this from?
This makes me suspect the whole thing as inaccurate

 

[Edgar_]

Well, Access is not a language. VBA would be the point of comparison and these are a few of the things that should be evaluated for that document, I'll try with VBA.
Popularity:
- Bad reputation
- Young developers avoid it
- It's widely available because it comes with MS Office

Community:
- Lots of communities
- Lots of volunteers eager to help
- Most of the people helping are retired
- Most of the info may still be valid, but a lot of it is outdated and it does not consider current trends

Compatibility:
- Built-In with MS Excel, arguably the most widely used tool right now
- Windows
- Mac
- Twin Basic

IDE:
- Primitive

Performance:
- Slow

Open source:
- Not open source

Security:
- Bad

Web support:
- Limited to tools created for the applications that use the language

Future:
- Has none, that we know

Syntax:
- Supports explicit typing
- Supports implicit typing and that produces lots of errors
- Easy to read
- Is verbose
- Simple error handling
- Outdated

Libraries:
- We don't have many
- We don't have a centralized place to get them
- Manually activated
- The references window is terrible
- Scoped to the apps that use it, most of which have terrible docs and some don't even have docs

Package management:
- We don't have a centralized place to get packages

Integrations:
- Built-in support for MS Office products
- Basic support for web
- Limited database integration
- COM and ActiveX

Concurrent development:
- No support

Scale:
- It's pretty much for local stuff

Cost of development:
- Probably cheap?

Speed of development:
- Depends on the application

Trend adaptation:
- Forget about AI, but if the AI has an API, it could be used in a basic way
- Not many UI alternatives

Documentation:
- Rich documentation
- The documentation presented in an outdated way


Feel free to correct and expand

 

[Cotswold]

This makes me suspect the whole thing as inaccurate

I take your point but do not agree with the above generalisation. But do you not contradict yourself from the Python reference?
I am not a fan of case sensitive and always irritated with it when I slip in and out of Linux. Why should a filename, or folder be case sensitive?

But I do like the way that VBA keeps a variable name the same in case by automatically adjusting. I just wish that it allowed you to align your code to make it easier to read. Particularly when I have several lines on one line separated with a colon. Others allow you to Tab them out and align them, making it clearer and tidy.

 

[Isaac]

But do you not contradict yourself from the Python reference?

What do you mean, how do I contradict myself?

I was glad the doc pointed out python is a case sensitive language, because 1) that's actually true, and 2) I hate it.

I was not glad the doc said vb.net was case sensitive language, because 1) that's not true

 

[Isaac]

IDE:
- Primitive

Performance:
- Slow

my favorite part of your assessment!

Primitive isn't even a bad enough word to describe it compared to other modern ide's

 

[Cotswold]

What do you mean, how do I contradict myself?

The way I read it was that you agreed with the Python comments and maybe some others but then said that you suspected that the whole thing was inaccurate. Which I thought was a contradiction. You obviously disagree. So there we are, agreeing to disagree.

I posted the opinions of Eric as I thought that it was a fairly unbiased and honest summary of various languages. Which I tend to find as difficult to locate. The opinions are from a guy who has a considerable experience of a range of languages that I myself do not have. I thought others would be similarly lacking in knowledge. In the main on the net, cons tend to simply be criticism. Which is often not a helpful opinion. From other posts some are looking at Python, presumably as an alternative to Access. Myself, I don't see it as one but no doubt some will also disagree on that? I was able to look through Eric's assessments and decide which I needn't waste my time taking a look at. ( as an Access alternative)

 

[Isaac]

python as an alternative to access? but where's the shell, where are the windows and forms? you'd have to use a python library probably Pythonnet or similar, but what reason would possibly make that better i dunno

 

[Pat Hartman]

Others allow you to Tab them out and align them, making it clearer and tidy.

There are ribbon tools that you can add to your taskbar so you don't have to search for them and make multiple clicks to get to them.

 

[Cotswold]

Maybe we are at cross purposes here Pat?
I attach brief samples of code that maybe explains what I was saying. I had to do a screen shot, as using <CODE> didn't keep the alignments that I wanted to show.

 

[Galaxiom]

It lists VB.NET as a "case sensitive language".

The full story is complex and discussed at length on this page.

Is VB really case insensitive?

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but for whatever reason, it's typically stated that Visual Basic is case insensitive and C languages aren't (and somehow that is a good thing). But here's...

stackoverflow.com

 

[Isaac]

The full story is complex and discussed at length on this page.

Is VB really case insensitive?

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but for whatever reason, it's typically stated that Visual Basic is case insensitive and C languages aren't (and somehow that is a good thing). But here's...

stackoverflow.com

But from the level of perspective that the author of the article was making in comparing it to other languages, he was definitely not correct in saying it's case sensitive.

 

[Cotswold]

python as an alternative to access? but where's the shell, where are the windows and forms? you'd have to use a python library probably Pythonnet or similar, but what reason would possibly make that better i dunno

It is possible to replace Access with Python. I looked at using Tkinter for GUI programming but decided against that and Python in the end.

I'm always on the lookout for an Access replacement but not found one yet. Although that is still a work in progress. Problem is that Access is just so comprehensive, from 30 years of development. Although not in the most used database list, as recently posted on this forum. it must be the most used in the World.

The nearest I have found before my present investigation was Visual XHarbour the GUI version. But it will only run on Windows 32Bit, although there is a costly version for Linux. Self support by forum is poor to bad. Paid support is expensive, so no idea how good that is as never used it. I do understand that updates have ceased. With no indication, or possibility of a 64Bit version. So it also ended up in the bin.

 

[GPGeorge]

It is possible to replace Access with Python. I looked at using Tkinter for GUI programming but decided against that and Python in the end.

I'm always on the lookout for an Access replacement but not found one yet. Although that is still a work in progress. Problem is that Access is just so comprehensive, from 30 years of development. Although not in the most used database list, as recently posted on this forum. it must be the most used in the World.

The nearest I have found before my present investigation was Visual XHarbour the GUI version. But it will only run on Windows 32Bit, although there is a costly version for Linux. Self support by forum is poor to bad. Paid support is expensive, so no idea how good that is as never used it. I do understand that updates have ceased. With no indication, or possibility of a 64Bit version. So it also ended up in the bin.

Have you looked at browser-based alternatives? What do you think of any that you've tried out?

I happen to think that Access developers sell themselves short by not considering additional tools--not necessarily replacements for Access.

 

[Cotswold]

Have you looked at browser-based alternatives? What do you think of any that you've tried out?

I happen to think that Access developers sell themselves short by not considering additional tools--not necessarily replacements for Access.

I have to admit that I haven't looked at any GPGeorge. Not a single one. What would be your starter for ten?

 

[GPGeorge]

I have to admit that I haven't looked at any GPGeorge. Not a single one. What would be your starter for ten?

Well, I would at least look at PowerApps and the rest of the Power Platform. It has the advantage of being part of the Microsoft ecosystem. Creating a hybrid application, with an Access interface and a PA interface for mobile devices, bridges the gap to a large extent. The data can be in Azure SQL tables, or SharePoint lists, or whatever other database you choose.

To my knowledge there are two downsides to Power Platform applications.

• Licensing costs are hard to swallow for all but the largest organizations.
• The coding environment is what is usually referred to as "Low Code/No Code". Many things we take for granted in VBA, such as standalone modules for reusable code, are not supported. I have figured out a hacky way to accomplish code reuse, but it remains a downside.
  On the other hand, it's possible to run SQL Server Stored Procedures from PowerApps code, so you can get a lot of processing capability back that way.

It depends on what your organization needs, of course. A custom web application, written in .net, can handle a lot of business cases, although up-front costs are higher during development.

I know there are other services, like Caspio, which promise to migrate your data to their remotely hosted database and to provide design tools for web interfaces. That's the one I am most familiar with (well, more accurately have heard about). There are others. I suspect their licensing costs differ a lot from Microsoft's approach.

Again, I don't necessarily think of it as a replacement, but as a companion approach, i.e. a hybrid with shared data in a server-based database.

 

[Cotswold]

Well, I would at least look at PowerApps and the rest of the Power Platform. It has the advantage of being part of the Microsoft ecosystem. Creating a hybrid application, with an Access interface and a PA interface for mobile devices, bridges the gap to a large extent. The data can be in Azure SQL tables, or SharePoint............................I know there are other services, like Caspio, which promise to migrate your data to their remotely hosted database and to provide design tools for web interfaces. That's the one I am most familiar with (well, more accurately have heard about). There are others. I suspect their licensing costs differ a lot from Microsoft's approach.

Again, I don't necessarily think of it as a replacement, but as a companion approach, i.e. a hybrid with shared data in a server-based database.

Cheers for that GPGeorge, I'll take a look & investigate.