Immunity puzzle

[Jon]

I have some immunity in my job. But that immunity only pertains to my actions while performing it. Trump is only immune from actions performed in relation to his official duties. Just like Clinton was not immune to lawsuits which fell outside his official duties. Campaigning for re-election is not part of the presidents official duties.

The Trump team are arguing that they were within his official duties.

They argue that the actions invoked by his indictment – he is charged with conspiring to defraud the U.S., conspiring to disenfranchise voters, and conspiring to obstruct an official proceeding as part of his election overturn effort – were part of his official duties as president.

As such, he should be immune from prosecution for it, according to the brief, filed by Trump lawyers including John Lauro and Todd Blanche.

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ts-theres-no-reason-act-trial-date-nears.html

 

[moke123]

The Trump team are arguing that they were within his official duties.

Lordy, There are tapes.

Former President Trump pressured two members of the Wayne County Board of Canvassers in Michigan not to certify the 2020 presidential elections, the Detroit News reported Thursday, citing audio recordings.

Why it matters: News of the recordings comes as the 2024 Republican presidential primary front-runner faces four criminal indictments, including charges of conspiracy related to his alleged attempts to retain power in the wake of losing the 2020 election.

In a phone call on Nov. 17, 2020, Trump told GOP Wayne County canvassers Monica Palmer and William Hartmann they'd look "terrible" if they signed documents certifying the election after initially voting against it, according to The Detroit News.
"We've got to fight for our country," Trump allegedly said on the recording. "We can't let these people take our country away from us."

A spokesperson for Trump told Axios in an email: "All of President Trump's actions were taken in furtherance of his duty as President of the United States to faithfully take care of the laws and ensure election integrity, including investigating the rigged and stolen 2020 Presidential Election."

Additionally McDaniels offered to supply them with Legal representation.

So if trump was investigating a rigged election, why is he not asking what the facts are, rather than telling them not to sign the papers and we'll get you lawyers? Lots of implications. Consciousness of guilt, prior bad acts, etc.

It is disturbing to me that you are always so happy about how Trump is being persecuted and do not see this as a breakdown of our legal system because you think the evil orange man deserves it. This double standard is going to be the death of the country.

I do see this as a breakdown of the legal system of which I've been heavily involved in for over 40 years.

What I find disturbing is not that it is trump saying the things he says, and not necessarily everything he does.
I find it disturbing that people believe the things he says and it is working.

 

[Jon]

So if trump was investigating a rigged election, why is he not asking what the facts are, rather than telling them not to sign the papers and we'll get you lawyers?

Trumps legal team will also have the tapes, and rebuttals or reasons for why what he did was legitimate action and part of his official duties. No doubt one explanation would be to prevent a fraudulent election, as perceived by The Donald, or Orange Hitler from the Democrats perspective. Shall we make mock-ups of his head and distribute them as a dart board Christmas present for Dems with TDS?

I find it disturbing that people believe the things he says and it is working.

I find it disturbing that those watching CNN were believing the Russia collusion tripe that went on 24/7 for years.

What I find disturbing is not that it is trump saying the things he says, and not necessarily everything he does.

And look at what Biden says about bringing the country together. What he has done has made it more divided than it ever was, post civil-war.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I find it disturbing that those watching CNN were believing the Russia collusion tripe that went on 24/7 for years. And look at what Biden says about bringing the country together. What he has done has made it more divided than it ever was, post civil-war.

Yeah, they conveniently forget that.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Orange Hitler

That's a good one

 

[Pat Hartman]

Lordy, There are tapes.

Yes there are and you hear what you want to hear just like you did with the Charlottesville speech and the latest speech that included lifeblood. If Trump says ANYTHING that might have a different interpretation or even something perfectly clear such as "peacefully and patriotically" which was interpreted as a call to insurrection, then those with TDS will hear something entirely different from Trump's intention.

why is he not asking what the facts are

Because by that time, there were no facts to be had. The machines had been scrubbed and the necessary ballots to support the count had been created.

What I find disturbing is not that it is trump saying the things he says, and not necessarily everything he does.
I find it disturbing that people believe the things he says and it is working.

There you go again. If Trump is accused of anything, he is automatically guilty. Your hatred of him is personal. It has nothing to do with policy. The arguments against Biden are all about policy (except for the money laundering extortion scheme - but that's backed up with money flow documentation) and not personal.

I've not see ONE SINGLE post where you have taken Trump's side, not because you like him but because he is being persecuted. You never criticized the offensive sentences of the Jan 6 people for things that Democrats do frequently. This week again for example. Why are not the people who took over the capitol building not in jail without bail for their "insurrection"? You never take the side of the constitution. How can the Supreme Court of Colorado, for example, say Trump is guilty of "insurrection" when he was never even charged with the crime let alone convicted?

Why don't you rail against the DNC for cancelling the Democrat primary so that YOU can't choose who you want to represent you in the general election next year?

Why don't you rail against the FBI for lying about the Steel Dossier and starting the whole Russia, Russia, Russia brouhaha?

Why don't you rail against the DOJ for letting the tax evasion crimes of Hunter expire?

Why don't you rail against the FBI for hiding Hunter's laptop with its evidence of many crimes, not even counting the drugs and sex trafficking.

Why don't you rail about the injustice of Hunter being able to thumb his nose at Congress and give a press conference instead of showing up for his deposition? Was it OK to harass the Trump kids multiple times just because their dad is the evil orange man but Biden's kid can literally say F*** You to Congress and get away with it? This is grotesquely unfair. People go to jail for ignoring subpoenas and to do it on the steps of the Capitol itself is such an insult to Congress ast to be unspeakable. Only a person who knows the fix is in would dare to do this and you can bet your sweet bippy that daddy knew about it ahead of time and OK'd the stunt.

 

[Jon]

We are at war on the forums. Instead of a white surrender flag, we will be waving an old Microsoft Access 2.0 box from the trenches to show we are on the same side, almost!

 

[Steve R.]

Jack Smith's attempt to wrongfully skip the normal appeal process has been shot-down. All this hyperbolic theater is about the Biden administration using the power-of-the-state to subvert recognized historic immunities to unjustly persecute Trump

Supreme Court declines to issue expedited ruling on Trump immunity case

The Supreme Court has declined to fast-track a case regarding whether former President Donald Trump has absolute immunity from alleged crimes committed while he was in office.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Steve R.]

Trump offers defense of presidential immunity, cites Obama civilian drone deaths: 'He meant well'

Former President Trump said rescinding presidential immunity could endanger the ability for presidents to act decisively in urgent times on "Hannity."

www.foxnews.com

"I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about [how] any president has to have immunity, because if you take immunity away from the president, it's so important, you will have you have a president that's not going to be able to do anything," he said on "Hannity."

"[W]hen he leaves office… the opposing party will indict the president for doing something that should have been good," he said, pointing to reports of mistakes or misfires made by his predecessor trying to eradicate terrorists.

The article above highlights that the Democrats in their preposterous religious fanaticism to crucify Trump, by any means (legal or illegal) are establishing precedents were they may, sometime in the future, be charged under those very legal and illegal theories that they are establishing. Democrats, in their demented desire for immediate "gratification" don't seem to comprehend that the (razor) pendulum can swing towards them to figuratively "cut off their heads".

The Biden administration has violated US immigration laws. Seemingly, the Democrats by attempting to abolish "immunity" would open-up the potential that a president could be charged for the crimes committed by illegal immigrants in the US. One such crime would be the murder of a US citizen in the US by an illegal immigrant.

Then there is also a question of $$$$ costs. Each illegal immigrants costs US citizens (tax) money to provide services such as food, clothing, travel, healthcare, education, etc. If immunity were not to exist, then the president, in this case Biden, would be personally liable for those costs.

Crimes committed by illegal immigrants surged in 2021 after declining in previous years

The number of crimes committed by illegal immigrants surged during fiscal year 2021, including a 1,900% increase in murders and a 400% increase in assaults and domestic violence.

www.foxnews.com

Denver hospital nears crisis after illegal immigrants, homeless, others racked up $136M in unpaid care in 2023 alone | Blaze Media

Denver Health, the largest "safety net" hospital in Colorado, is nearing a crisis after rising numbers of illegal immigrants and homeless people are racking up hefty health care bills that they have little or no ability to pay.Since President Joe Biden took office and the southern border has...

www.theblaze.com

Bullet point summary of established historical immunities that the Democrats are attempting to invalidate for the short term objective of getting Trump, by any means, that potentially could haunt the Democrats in the future.

• Executive Privilege
• Attorney Client Privileged Communications
• Presidential Immunity

 

[The_Doc_Man]

We are at war on the forums. Instead of a white surrender flag, we will be waving an old Microsoft Access 2.0 box from the trenches to show we are on the same side, almost!

The difficulty of that "white flag" method is that I ordered and received my Office 2021 kit via online purchase and download. No box to wave, and the only other thing I have, a 2008 Microsoft MVP certificate, isn't that clear from a distance.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Most of us will never be President but you should all be verrrrry upset (even the Democrats) about the violation of Trump's attorney/client privilege because that one could easily harm YOU.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The latest interesting shot is one part of a SCOTUS case on the "immunity" question that is trying to show that Jack Smith has no standing to prosecute in the first place. The "special prosecutor" status (by statute, not by U.S. Constitution) requires appointment by POTUS but THEN requires approval by Congress. Neither of those steps occurred. Without "special prosecutor" status, Smith has to be considered as an assistant to the AG, Merrick Garland. But in that case, the language of the various actions would have to be different than it actually has been. In essence, Smith is an illegal actor in this drama, not properly certified for the role he is playing. Not saying anything about his law degree; not saying "unqualified" but rather "uncertified by due process."

I should point out that I can't at the moment find the article because I read it several days ago and it has dropped off my browsing history after a cleanup. However, I read that within the last few days so it is relatively current.

 

[Cotswold]

I thought that the rules were; politicians and the police are immune from everything and anything.
Those rules apply equally, if a democracy or a dictatorship.

 

[moke123]

The latest interesting shot is one part of a SCOTUS case on the "immunity" question that is trying to show that Jack Smith has no standing to prosecute in the first place. The "special prosecutor" status (by statute, not by U.S. Constitution) requires appointment by POTUS but THEN requires approval by Congress. Neither of those steps occurred. Without "special prosecutor" status, Smith has to be considered as an assistant to the AG, Merrick Garland. But in that case, the language of the various actions would have to be different than it actually has been. In essence, Smith is an illegal actor in this drama, not properly certified for the role he is playing. Not saying anything about his law degree; not saying "unqualified" but rather "uncertified by due process."

I should point out that I can't at the moment find the article because I read it several days ago and it has dropped off my browsing history after a cleanup. However, I read that within the last few days so it is relatively current.

That was an amicus brief filed by Ed Meese and the heritage foundation last year.

Interesting, looking at Smith's background I saw he was the prosecutor on a high profile case (national news) I was involved in years ago.

 

[Steve R.]

I thought that the rules were; politicians and the police are immune from everything and anything.
Those rules apply equally, if a democracy or a dictatorship.

The Biden administration contorts the "law" as if the US were a banana republic.
The "law" is maliciously twisted to take-out political opponents.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Interesting, looking at Smith's background I saw he was the prosecutor on a high profile case (national news) I was involved in years ago.

Did he win?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I'm not question his legal education or board certification. The specific question has to do with statutory requirements to become a "special prosecutor" vs. just being an assistant to the AGOTUS.

 

[moke123]

Did he win?

like his current case, it was one you couldn't lose.

Sentenced to 30 years and released in 2023.

 

[Steve R.]

Jack Smith's special counsel status is unconstitutional, former attorney general tells SCOTUS

One of the legal experts who joined the former attorney general previously wrote an op-ed in The New York Times calling for Trump to be convicted in the Senate after Jan. 6.

justthenews.com

Former U.S. Attorney General Edwin Meese and top constitutional law scholars are asking the Supreme Court to reject special counsel Jack Smith's petition in the case against former President Donald Trump because they say Smith's appointment as special counsel is unconstitutional to begin with.

Smith lacked the authority to ask the Supreme Court to rule on the case, according to the 32-page brief written by Meese, Boston University Associate Law School Dean Gary Lawson and Northwestern University Law School Professor Steven Calabresi.

DC appeals court to review Jack Smith's 'unconstitutional' appointment in Trump case

Federal court to consider arguments made by Reagan-era Attorney General Ed Meese over Jack Smith's "unconstitutional" appointment as special counsel in the case against former President Donald Trump.

www.foxnews.com

This issue has been lurking in the background for a while. Apparently there have been no recent updates. Should the Court accept that Smith was illegally appointed, it would seem that the case against Trump would be dismissed.

 

[AccessBlaster]

like his current case, it was one you couldn't lose.

Good luck with ALL the appeals. Once the adults (SCOUS) get in the room most if not ALL these fabricobbled charges will be dropped or heavily modified.