IT workers 'beyond furious' over H-1B replacements - California (1 Viewer)

[Rx_]

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...rs-beyond-furious-over-h-1b-replacements.html
Hundreds of workers and undisclosed number of contractors are being laid off and replaced with less-experienced, younger, non-citizens in California.

H-1B Visa was created because Congress was told there is a major skilled worker shortage in the US. It brings foreign workers to the US. The companies don't often pay them less. But, the companies do get a considerable tax and other subsidy for using them instead of US citizens.

The regulations state that it is not suppose to displace US Citizens. However, the lack of enforcement against this huge lobby is common.

Information technology workers at Southern California Edison (SCE) are being laid off and replaced by workers from India. Some employees are training their H-1B visa holding replacements, and many have already lost their jobs.

The General Accounting Office (GAO) admitted it lost track of how many and even who has come to the country under H1-B. The last estimate I found was over 400,000.

Bill Gates, Zuccerman, Oracle and other wealthy individuals support this Congressional lobby that is fully supported by both major political parties. My take is: stop the tax subsidy for the wealthy.

 

[Frothingslosh]

And yet people say it's the illegal immigrants who are the problem... :banghead:

 

[Rx_]

Exactly. Two of the 911 terrorist entered the country with H1-B visa. We find out that sometimes they don't really have any realistic background checks. Yet, companies like Anthem give them access to company databases.

 

[Frothingslosh]

Well, perhaps Anthem learned its lesson. I shudder to think of what the consequences of THAT little disaster will be, however.

 

[pbaldy]

Another example of the never-ending stupidity of government. The incentive should be eliminated or even reversed so that hiring the foreign worker is an option the employer turns to only when actually unable to fill positions. Hard to take your business elsewhere when it's a monopoly public utility too.

 

[Bladerunner]

And yet people say it's the illegal immigrants who are the problem... :banghead:

No, just the democratic administration is letting them in, votes bought and paid for. A good vote to stay in permanent power.

 

[Frothingslosh]

No, just the democratic administration is letting them in, votes bought and paid for. A good vote to stay in permanent power.

Case in point, Rx_

 

[Bladerunner]

Case in point, Rx_

To solve the problem that was the subject and the Illegal Alien problem is to severely punish the employer. First time a big fine, second time bigger fine, Loss of business license and if there is a third time (say he starts up another business), then fine, no business license and mandatory jail time.

With no job for these people (both) they will not come here under any circumstances other than being legally here.

No borders no walls along the border, just no jobs to be hand in the entire US. for illegals and those Rx spoke of !


Blade

 

[Rx_]

So perhaps the real poll should have been "Do IT Workers have a Backbone"?
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-visas-tech-workers-h1b-20150217-story.html
See the IT Protest photo and video


H1-B Update - Tech Workers Protesting photo.
Article Highlights:
Southern California Edison's action appears not to be unusual: It is part of a years-long trend among companies of misusing H-1B visas to undercut wages and offshore high-paying American jobs. (Rx Note, not off shoring, bringing tech workers to US Shores)
(diirect quote)
This editorial says Unisys was among the top two companies receiving H-1B visas for workers in 2013. Infosys is the company that should have been named. Also, the Government Accountability Office is identified under its former name, the General Accounting Office.
(Rx_ Is that right, our own Government Accounting Office?)

Reports from the Center for Investigative Reporting, the New England Public Policy Center for the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston, and the Economic Policy Institute have spotlighted fraud and abuse problems with the H1-B program. A 2011 General Accounting Office report concluded that the departments of Labor and Homeland Security asserted insufficient oversight of the visa workers' qualifications and wages, in part because of problems with the immigration laws themselves, including a lack of enforcement provisions.

 

[Bladerunner]

What about the strike of long shoreman that is trying to bring America to its knees. Guess they want more wages or maybe benefits.. How greedy can you get??????they make close to $175,000/yr.

so much for caring about the Poor.

Blade

 

[Frothingslosh]

What about the strike of long shoreman that is trying to bring America to its knees. Guess they want more wages or maybe benefits.. How greedy can you get??????they make close to $175,000/yr.

so much for caring about the Poor.

Blade

Perhaps, for once in your life, you should try reading and researching before running your mouth.

For starters, they earn, on average, $41 per hour. Good, but hardly $175k. The $175k starts with the highest pay the best-paid longshoreman makes, and adds in holiday pay, sick leave, overtime paid, vacation, pension management costs over their lifetime, inflation, uniform costs, cafeteria costs, and even laundry fees. Also, keep in mind it's one of the most dangerous jobs in the US - there is a higher fatality rate among longshoremen than among firefighters.

The strike isn't about wages - it's about safety, union busting, the fact they've been working without a contract for over two years, and job security for new workers. The contract they rejected - which used similarly inflated numbers to make them seem ultra-greedy - was rejected by the union because of all the union-busting demands included in it, not because of the pay.

It rather reminds me of when I worked as a CSR in 2007. I made $15 an hour, and the people about ready to retire made around $30 an hour. The company spent 3 years dragging out negotiations with the union, and finally offered a contract that was utterly unacceptable ($2/hour decrease in starting pay over 3 years, no cost-of-living increases, a minimal health insurance plan that cost employees over $400 a month, the loss of the grievance process, and the insistance that in case of layoffs, the layoffs were to be done in order of highest to lowest seniority). When we more or less unanimously voted against it, they announced we had turned down a contract offering us $55 an hour. You can imagine the public outcry on that one - people like you bought it hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Rx_]

Re: strike of long shoreman and Maritime Union Workers
e.g. Oh-Boy! I get to RANT!! LOL
In the US, the Freedom to Associate includes workers who associate for bargaining.
If you have visited Long Beach, CA, the average cost of living
The Government GSA "per deim" is an average of $83 per day for US cities.
Long Beach Government GSA "per deim" is $138 per day.
I have personally visited the Long Beach Cargo docs. This cost of living is very real.

Longshore workers and West Coast port operators have been working without a contract since July. $147,000 per year is a "full-time" worker. The Port Authority for safety and security reasons they seldom allow full-time. The actual average is $83,000. You still have to be available each day regardless of the "clock in" time.

These are highly skilled individuals working extremely dangerous jobs. I actually boarded large Cargo ships while the crane operators, trucks and workers unloaded a ship. The Transportation Worker ID (TWIC) requirements are very strict for Homeland Security. For Safety reasons, anyone must piss on demand for drug testing that can result in immediate dismissal.

I am personally impressed with the average hard-working citizen who takes the profession, safety, and job very seriously. I don't see them as greedy people.

The Too-Big-To-Fail bankers who floated the bonds for the harbor and equipment are a different story. Yes, I have consulted with the LA Harbor Authority financial groups to help them solve accounting work-flow and programming challenges. Let me thank you for your tax-payer donation to these groups. It is in their interest to cut cost so that the bonds sales make the bigger profits. Much of the bonds were not funded with domestic citizens.

Just my two cents worth (that 2 cents of purchasing power today use to be whole US Dollar back in 1968) I don't see $40 to $70 and hour for a very expensive location to work in a dangerous profession all that much. I would rather see hard-working citizens of any country being compensated over some paper-bond sales group getting that revenue.

I support their Constitutional (and Human) Right to freely associate for a common cause.

 

[Bladerunner]

Perhaps, for once in your life, you should try reading and researching before running your mouth.

Don't have to do too much research, just have to post it on here. Knew you would be able to fill us in. You know everything?

For starters, they earn, on average, $41 per hour. Good, but hardly $175k. The $175k starts with the highest pay the best-paid longshoreman makes, and adds in holiday pay, sick leave, overtime paid, vacation, pension management costs over their lifetime, inflation, uniform costs, cafeteria costs, and even laundry fees

I am an employer so I kind of like to pull up all the other expenses and add them to what their paycheck will be to get a total. It still is $175 which ever way you go.

I think the two sides of your brain have a difference of opinion. One side says "$41/hour but hardly $175". and the other side says: "The $175k starts with the highest pay the best-paid longshoreman makes" Which is is it or is it both.....

You do know the average logger gets only about $30-45,000 per year (maybe) and they are the #1 most hazardous job. Why should a longshoreman get up to $175.

p.s. I think union busting is good but you already knew that? NO!


My wife worked in a factory in our early years while she was going to school. The union tried to come in and pulled all sorts of things including harassing the employees. One day before the vote on whether to Unionize or NOT, the company leaders got them all together and said this. If you vote the union in, we will close the doors the next day and relocate elsewhere. Needless to say, the union was turned down. Now before you get on your 'HighHorse' the ave. wage around the area was about $5.40 and this company started at $7 with 3 months to $8 plus great benefits. There was no need for a union. The union just wanted in because of the money they would get.

We have had to live from the bottom up not the top down.
Blade

 

[Frothingslosh]

I never claim to understand everything, I'm simply willing to research something before I start running off at the mouth about it.

There's an old quote you would do well to live by:

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

 

[RainLover]

Most IT guys are overpaid.

When I go to a new site it can take anything up to a week for my User Name and Password etc.

I am not an IT expert, but I still get lots of question from these people. Yet we give them free air.

They should all get paid by individual negotiations. That would sort out the men from the boys.

 

[Rx_]

"The Port Authority for safety and security reasons they seldom allow full-time." So if there was a national or environmental emergency, they have extra labor ready. So again, the "average salary" is $83,000. Or a 2,000 work-week, that is around $40 an hour. It is different than your job. You show up and expect to go right to work. They show up and might get to work for three or five hours.
What if you only paid firemen for the actual time they fought fires? Put it into that terms. It is just a little different business model than the so called News Media can understand. They would rather print something "not average". That is how they sell advertisement.
The Administration is on record for wanting to repeal the 100 year old Jones Act for Maritime. This would bring an end to the US Maritime Union and allow foreigners (like the H1-B) to run our shipping. When people think workers instead of bankers are making too much, they can often exhibit jealously.

The most dangerous occupation in the US is Taxi Cab Driver. Chances of being murdered, stabbed, beaten, or shot is very high for a very low paying job. Government (city) Union Firefighters are among the highest paid professionals. Their occupation doesn't even come close to the top 100 most dangerous occupations. That is unlikely to change.

In the H1-B program, your wife would have been told that foreigners are traveling to the US to replace her. They would pay the foreigner the same salary or more. They can pay more since your wife's employment overhead (Social Security, Medicare, Obamacare, workman's Comp, ...) adds to her total cost of expenes. H1-B foreign workers matching government fees cost the employer less than the total over head of a citizen. Then, the company also gets a special Tax Subsidy deduction for H1-B. The employer then swears that your wife (an American) wouldn't do the work and that there is a shortage of workers in the US, so they were forced to import foreign H1-B workers.
While she might complain about paying union fees, those in unions have avoided being replaced with H1-B foreign workers.
Perhaps the Union is not a great option. It might be the lesser evil of the trend underway in the US.

There is an episode of "Hell on Wheels" when Union Pacific sent a telegraph to Chicago to bring out new workers to replace those on strike. The striking workers got wind of the arrival. They took ax handles and beat the replacements back onto the train then ran them out on a rail so to speak. The story is based on actual incidents.
One will hope that workers can peacefully negotiate being replaced by a tax subsidy funded foreigner. Once things get so unfair and people feel they have nothing to loose, it can lead to social unrest. In a nutshell, this is how labor was managed about 100 years ago.

As for Southern California Edison, they are a private monopoly with the backing of the California government's force. The workers are not organized. My bet is that organized force will win.

 

[Bladerunner]

"The Port Authority for safety and security reasons they seldom allow full-time." So if there was a national or environmental emergency, they have extra labor ready. So again, the "average salary" is $83,000. Or a 2,000 work-week, that is around $40 an hour. It is different than your job. You show up and expect to go right to work. They show up and might get to work for three or five hours.
What if you only paid firemen for the actual time they fought fires? Put it into that terms. It is just a little different business model than the so called News Media can understand. They would rather print something "not average". That is how they sell advertisement.
The Administration is on record for wanting to repeal the 100 year old Jones Act for Maritime. This would bring an end to the US Maritime Union and allow foreigners (like the H1-B) to run our shipping. When people think workers instead of bankers are making too much, they can often exhibit jealously.

The most dangerous occupation in the US is Taxi Cab Driver. Chances of being murdered, stabbed, beaten, or shot is very high for a very low paying job. Government (city) Union Firefighters are among the highest paid professionals. Their occupation doesn't even come close to the top 100 most dangerous occupations. That is unlikely to change.

In the H1-B program, your wife would have been told that foreigners are traveling to the US to replace her. They would pay the foreigner the same salary or more. They can pay more since your wife's employment overhead (Social Security, Medicare, Obamacare, workman's Comp, ...) adds to her total cost of expenes. H1-B foreign workers matching government fees cost the employer less than the total over head of a citizen. Then, the company also gets a special Tax Subsidy deduction for H1-B. The employer then swears that your wife (an American) wouldn't do the work and that there is a shortage of workers in the US, so they were forced to import foreign H1-B workers.
While she might complain about paying union fees, those in unions have avoided being replaced with H1-B foreign workers.
Perhaps the Union is not a great option. It might be the lesser evil of the trend underway in the US.

There is an episode of "Hell on Wheels" when Union Pacific sent a telegraph to Chicago to bring out new workers to replace those on strike. The striking workers got wind of the arrival. They took ax handles and beat the replacements back onto the train then ran them out on a rail so to speak. The story is based on actual incidents.
One will hope that workers can peacefully negotiate being replaced by a tax subsidy funded foreigner. Once things get so unfair and people feel they have nothing to loose, it can lead to social unrest. In a nutshell, this is how labor was managed about 100 years ago.

As for Southern California Edison, they are a private monopoly with the backing of the California government's force. The workers are not organized. My bet is that organized force will win.

Hi Rx ......

No we do not need the H1-B program. In fact I have been for a nation wide program that will forbid the employment of any illegal with severe penalties for the employer when caught. Believe me when I tell you, there would be thousands of them (employers) caught because of informants. The Port Authorities across the country should be considered part of our national security and not allowed to hire illegal foreigners.

Don't know where you got you taxi cab info but I guess with all things these days there are various written opinions based upon the agenda of the article (wikepedia, etc ) writers. You and I then have to sift through all of this stuff. In the end it really does not matter except maybe to win a debate. I am personally not up for it, you win>

Yes, I saw that episode of Hell on Wheels and agree with you that people need to find a peaceable way around this problem. Unfortunately, I am afraid that to correct the fundamental changes that this far left agenda and President are installing and proposing (in some cases for the next five years). troubled times are coming. A socialistic society even one like most of Europe has is not something I am looking forward to.

Have a great day Rx.

Blade

 

[Rx_]

Wow, I wan't the only one watching that series of Hell on Wheels. Thanks for sharing that.
The rail went through the state of Kansas. Was surprised that the railroad actually gave permission to use the facilities and allowed them to make the film about it.

My government background in dept of health and environment compiling and submitting all kinds of data to the Federal government was part of the source. Employment stats determine various rates that can be set from workman's compensation to insurance. Sometimes I dread being that person because facts can tend to isolate people from the majority's mental model.
Yes, I am a fence jumper. Sometimes I am in the middle of the mindless bureaucracy turning cogs as the cog, other times as the lubrication (contractor) that keeps the cogs turning.

One good place for well documented research on Public Policy is CATO.
http://www.cato.org/about - No, its not the driver for the Green Hornet LOL
I think it was originally funded under a different name by Ben Franklin.

 

[Bladerunner]

thanks will check it out...

p.s. I watched the first season on TV and did not see about only half of the shows for one reason or the other. I did find the last three seasons on Netflix and have enjoyed watching it when I want to and not the CBS schedule lets me.

Keep trying to keep the gov together, we need it now more than ever.

have a great week. looks like it finally going to dry out here for a day or two.

Blade