Las Vegas

[The_Doc_Man]

OK, Mike. Having never used a rifle suppressor or silencer of the type appropriate for the weapons in question, I will defer to your expertise.

But your comments bear out the other side of my comments to Colin. IF the shooter was trying for terror among the other effects, he would have avoided the reduced loads that would have been appropriate if the intent was to reduce the noise.

 

[ColinEssex]

Thanks for the explanations chaps. I didn't really understand a word, but the gist seems to be the bullet would travel slower.
You see, I've never even seen a real gun and know only what I see on American cop shows or Cowboys and Indians programmes, which Mike has indicated are somewhat exaggerated or expanding on reality.

I've often wondered why the bullet ricochet always makes the same noise. A bit like I wonder why American car tyres always screech even on soft ground.

Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I've often wondered why the bullet ricochet always makes the same noise. A bit like I wonder why American car tyres always screech even on soft ground.

Those two, I can answer. Overzealous sound-effects technicians with a limited library of sounds.

 

[kevlray]

There just using sound (whether noise effects or music) to increase the drama of the scene. Think of how boring some action movies (Mad Max to Star Wars) would be without the overuse of sound effects and dramatic music (space ships making noise in outer space?!?) .

 

[Mark_]

Thanks for the explanations chaps. I didn't really understand a word, but the gist seems to be the bullet would travel slower.
You see, I've never even seen a real gun and know only what I see on American cop shows or Cowboys and Indians programmes, which Mike has indicated are somewhat exaggerated or expanding on reality.

I've often wondered why the bullet ricochet always makes the same noise. A bit like I wonder why American car tyres always screech even on soft ground.

Col

Please note, I think you've just answered why you would not be a reliable individual for answering any question regarding "Common sense" gun control, or gun control at all.

You would be just as useful in such a discussion as most clerks in a store would be in discussing how to automate cheque clearing between businesses.

Both may have good intentions and understand there could be an advantage, but lack of technical understanding would prevent useful input. In most areas handguns cause more deaths than long arms, often by a large margin. Yet it is the rifle that attracts attention in the media and is what is demonized first. This COULD be because the security employed by media members often carry handguns, or at least the conspiracy minded would comment on that...

As to the shooter's motives, it could simply be that he decided "Well, look what happened in Nice, I bet I can do better!"... and thankfully failed.

 

[ColinEssex]

Please note, I think you've just answered why you would not be a reliable individual for answering any question regarding "Common sense" gun control, or gun control at all.

You would be just as useful in such a discussion as most clerks in a store would be in discussing how to automate cheque clearing between businesses.

1) I think knowing nothing about a subject would be excellent qualifications for being a politician or even a President. That's the way it seems to be in the UK.

And

2) in 1968 I had an association with the (then) Midland Bank in London operating an English Electric Leo Marconi KDF8 computer which automatically cleared cheques between businesses.
The computer was in a room the size of a ballroom and probably had a memory less than a today's calculator and had masses of mag tape spools.

Col

 

[Mark_]

2) in 1968 I had an association with the (then) Midland Bank in London operating an English Electric Leo Marconi KDF8 computer which automatically cleared cheques between businesses.
The computer was in a room the size of a ballroom and probably had a memory less than a today's calculator and had masses of mag tape spools.

Col

So you understand why asking the person taking sales and making change up front wouldn't be very useful in discussing what the best way to clear a batch of cheques.

For firearms, often the more scary it looks the less likely it is to be used in a violent act. I have little fear of individuals walking around with assault rifles. Those are far to bulky to hide. The thug with a pocket pistol is the one you should be concerned about. They are also going to get a gun if they really want one.

The death count in Las Vegas is shocking most places. I've family in Chicago. To them, its about what they had in September. Chicago has very strict gun laws which have proven time and again to be ineffective. Most of the gun violence isn't because those who commit the crimes fall into the category of "Insane" or "Mentally ill", rather it is violence committed by those who feel disenfranchised or disadvantaged, often against other members of their own community. Much of it is fueled by gang violence related to drugs and other criminal activity.

In all, telling one who is breaking the law "Dont' do that, its against the law" has little impact. Past behavior by governments (especially the U.S.) show that some of the worst offenders for arming those who shouldn't have weapons does tend to be governments. Then when these weapons find their way to the hands of criminals we cannot be too surprised.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Nearly 3,000 people shot in Chicago so far this year, almost nobody bats an eye. Nobody is calling for gun control, Rahm Emanule is still the mayor....life goes on. You have to ask yourself why. Its all politics, Bernie Sanders his state is surrounded by Smith and Wesson, Ruger and other big gun manufactures. He said nothing until it was politically expedient.

Maybe we should ban politics.

 

[Mike375]

Australian gun laws introduced in 1996 show how dumb politicians, the media, Gun Control Australia and the non shooting public are when it comes to guns.

Basically we have a system where guns/calibres are in groups such as A, B and so on for the licencing system and whether you can own a particular gun/calibre.

Category A is the least restrictive and includes things like muzzle loaders, single shot guns and the 22 rim fire repeater.

The 22 rim fire was and is and will continue to be the biggest killer in Australia and that includes suicide. However, it is in the least restrictive category

The 22 rim fire is also the most commonly used in crime.

On the other hand some calibres that are banned or highly restricted have probably never been used for any type of illegal activity anywhere in the world, not even shooting a road sign.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I think knowing nothing about a subject would be excellent qualifications for being a politician or even a President. That's the way it seems to be in the UK.

Colin... All this time you've been touting how good your British system works vs. the USA, and yet here you come up with the perfect comparison ... and both systems work the same. Knowledge does not appear to be a requirement to be a politician. The more you talk about the differences in the UK and USA, the more they seem the same.

 

[Mike375]

A bit of gun stuff to help keep you on the straight and narrow when watching the news, reading the paper etc.

The 5.56 (223 Remington when in a hunting rifle) and the cartridge for the M16 and similar rifles, will be described in various terms such as high calibre, extremely powerful, the extremely high velocity and whatever else you want to add.

Now for the reality. Of centre fire rifles (as opposed to the rim fires) it is the least powerful of the commonly available cartridges. Of the smaller bore size cartridges it has the lowest velocity of the commonly available cartridges.

The AK47 cartridge, the 7.62 X 39, same bullet diameter as the old 303 but much lighter in weight and slower. It the 30 calibre range it is the lowest powered that is commonly available, even less than the lever action 30/30.

The 7.62 NATO replaced the 303 and 30/06. It is about the same power (kinetic energy) as the 303 but with a lighter bullet going a bit faster. 303 Mark VII ammo was 174 grain bullet at 2440 f/s the 7.62 NATA is generally a 150 grain bullet at 2750 f/s. On the power scale of sporting cartridges it is very low level.

These days the 7.62 NATO is used only in machine guns and also in the shorter range sniper rifles, which is most sniper rifles.

A sporting cartridge like the 30/378 Weatherby uses the same diameter bullets as the 7.62 NATO but has 2.5 times the powder. Something like the 30 or 338 Chey Tac use 3 time plus more powder. Of course there is a price to pay with short barrel life, very savage recoil and extreme muzzle blast. These sort of rifles are almost always used with a muzzle brake to control recoil and that makes ear muffs (often with ear plugs) mandatory.

 

[ColinEssex]

One puzzling thing.

If these guns are so brilliant and accurate and can kill at hundreds of yards - why can't the crack shot ex commandos of The A Team ever hit any of their persuers?

It's a mystery.

Col

 

[Mark_]

One puzzling thing.

If these guns are so brilliant and accurate and can kill at hundreds of yards - why can't the crack shot ex commandos of The A Team ever hit any of their persuers?

It's a mystery.

Col

The same reason you can't walk into a blue box labeled "Police" and travel through time and space? Something about "TV" =/= "Real Life"?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Colin

why can't the crack shot ex commandos of The A Team ever hit any of their persuers?

It's a contract thing. The A team is secretly sponsored by an ammunition company that wants to blow through hundreds of rounds of ammo per episode. Well, if they hit the bad guys too soon, they have trouble meeting their quota.

Hey, makes as much sense as anything else I see on the TV.

 

[ColinEssex]

The same reason you can't walk into a blue box labeled "Police" and travel through time and space? Something about "TV" =/= "Real Life"?

I have a garden shed that has so much old junk in it that when I go into it I am transformed back to the 1970's.

We use kitchen utensils that we bought in the 1980's and our dinner plates were a wedding present from 1972. We have spice packets dated 1980's and play our LP's from the 1960's on our radiogram.

Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Yes, we don't throw away stuff either. I've got some of my dad's carpentry and automotive tools from the 1960s.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I have a garden shed that has so much old junk in it that when I go into it I am transformed back to the 1970's.

We use kitchen utensils that we bought in the 1980's and our dinner plates were a wedding present from 1972. We have spice packets dated 1980's and play our LP's from the 1960's on our radiogram.

Col

Music is the great equalizer, the minute you hear that certain song you are literally transported back through time.

 

[Mark_]

I have a garden shed that has so much old junk in it that when I go into it I am transformed back to the 1970's.
Col

That said the two most relevant queries are; colour, and verbiage stating "Police"?

Personally I lack the "Junk in the Trunk" so many youths are emphatically desiring.

 

[Mark_]

To those who wondered why I considered a lone shooter much less dangerous than other means, please see what a truck bomb can do.

Very very sad, and I am disappointed that it has not been on the media near as much as the shooter in Las Vegas. Once more this simply illustrates how "America"-centric much news is these days.

 

[Mike375]

To those who wondered why I considered a lone shooter much less dangerous than other means, please see what a truck bomb can do.

Very very sad, and I am disappointed that it has not been on the media near as much as the shooter in Las Vegas. Once more this simply illustrates how "America"-centric much news is these days.

Las Vegas filled Australian media for a week but like you said there was not much about the bombing.

Of course we also had the usual crap about Australian gun laws whenever there is a shooting in the US.

Gun stuff is good for the media as apart from the media having no gun knowledge neither do the non gun owning public. Some of the crap put forward is unreal, pure fantasy land but since the non gun owning public have only a collection of erroneous ideas on guns they get away with the fantasy land stuff.

All countries have one thing in common and that is "mass shootings", usually defined as more than 4 people shot, kill only an extremely small number of people, a very small fraction of a percent as compared to other shootings.

I suppose for movie makers it is good that non gun owners have zero factual knowledge on guns